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Tuesday, September 08, 2020

Tolkien hated the Devil Mouse

Considering the deep contempt in which both Tolkien and Lewis held Disney products even in the Golden Age of Disney, it should come as no surprise, then, that the Devil Mouse and its lesser kin so thoroughly hate them and everything in their Christian tradition right back:

Tolkien mostly hated Disney’s creations, and he made these feelings very clear. Snow White debuted only months after The Hobbit’s publication in 1937. As it happened, Tolkien went to see the film with literary friend and sometime rival C.S. Lewis. Neither liked it very much. In a 1939 letter, Lewis granted that “the terrifying bits were good, and the animals really most moving.” But he also called Disney a “poor boob” and lamented “What might not have come of it if this man had been educated—or even brought up in a decent society?”

Tolkien, notes Atlas Obscura, “found Snow White lovely, but otherwise wasn’t pleased with the dwarves. To both Tolkien and Lewis, it seemed, Disney’s dwarves were a gross oversimplification of a concept they held as precious”—the concept, that is, of fairy stories. Some might brush away their opinions as two Oxford dons gazing down their noses at American mass entertainment. As Tolkien scholar Trish Lambert puts it, “I think it grated on them that he [Disney] was commercializing something that they considered almost sacrosanct.”

“Indeed,” writes Steven D. Greydanus at the National Catholic Register, “it would be impossible to imagine” these two authors “being anything but appalled by Disney’s silly dwarfs, with their slapstick humor, nursery-moniker names, and singsong musical numbers.” One might counter that Tolkien’s dwarves (as he insists on pluralizing the word), also have funny names (derived, however, from Old Norse) and also break into song. But he takes pains to separate his dwarves from the common run of children’s story dwarfs.

Tolkien would later express his reverence for fairy tales in a scholarly 1947 essay titled “On Fairy Stories,” in which he attempts to define the genre, parsing its differences from other types of marvelous fiction, and writing with awe, “the realm of fairy story is wide and deep and high.” These are stories to be taken seriously, not dumbed-down and infantilized as he believed they had been. “The association of children and fairy-stories,” he writes, “is an accident of our domestic history.”

olkien wrote The Hobbit for young people, but he did not write it as a “children’s book.” Nothing in the book panders, not the language, nor the complex characterization, nor the grown-up themes. Disney’s works, on the other hand, represented to Tolkien a cheapening of ancient cultural artifacts, and he seemed to think that Disney’s approach to films for children was especially condescending and cynical.

He described Disney’s work on the whole as “vulgar” and the man himself, in a 1964 letter, as "simply a cheat," who is “hopelessly corrupted” by profit-seeking (though he admits he is “not innocent of the profit-motive” himself).

…I recognize his talent, but it has always seemed to me hopelessly corrupted. Though in most of the ‘pictures’ proceeding from his studios there are admirable or charming passages, the effect of all of them is to me disgusting. Some have given me nausea…

This explication of Tolkien’s dislike for Disney goes beyond mere gossip to an important practical upshot: Tolkien would not allow any of his works to be given the Walt Disney treatment. While his publisher approached the studios about a Lord of the Rings adaptation (they were turned down at the time), most scholars think this happened without the author’s knowledge, which seems a safe assumption to say the least.

It's fascinating to observe how the seeds of Disney's evil blossoming into the Devil Mouse were always apparent to the sufficiently discerning artist. And while there is nothing wrong in seeking profit, which is often necessary if one is to produce anything of value, the problem, as Tolkien correctly noted, is permitting that goal to corrupt your artistic vision.

Or, as in Walt Disney's case, to overwhelm it entirely.

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99 Comments:

Blogger Silent Draco September 08, 2020 10:19 AM  

Been thinking about this since the first reference in a Darkstream. Aside from a couple generic characters and bland wedding scenes, I don't see where Logos is written in or illustrated for any Disney production. Nor does conventional folk wisdom have its underpinnings shown. It's not obvious without stepping back and looking at one, then more productions.
That overall absence of the Presence was like a gas attack warning to both dons.

Blogger Jab Burrwalky September 08, 2020 10:43 AM  

From very early on, and especially by the 80s/90s movies, the morals of the source material had been inverted. From a warning against rash, imprudent and rebellious actions into "follow your emotions" and "kids are smarter than their parents" and "tradition is stupid and evil."

Oh, and that animals are more important than people.

Blogger Dad29 September 08, 2020 10:45 AM  

a concept they held as precious”—the concept, that is, of fairy stories.

Wherein they join G K Chesterton, no less.

Blogger kurt9 September 08, 2020 10:45 AM  

Tolkien's work was far more sophisticated than anything Disney ever made. Of course Tolkien would not have liked Disney.

Blogger Trid September 08, 2020 10:48 AM  

How unfortunate, to have a name like "Greyed Anus"

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 September 08, 2020 10:51 AM  

The "Frozen" movie was supposed to be an adaptation of "The Snow Queen". Except that it isn't and has absolutely nothing to do with the original whatsoever. This is a tragedy in and of itself because the original story has strong Christian values to fight against evil.

Blogger Th3 J3st3r September 08, 2020 10:51 AM  

I was recently pondering the worth of any of they Disney products (ever,) and I came to the conclusion that I do not value them at all. Couldn't agree more with Tolkien.

So many hours of my childhood were wasted, simply because I was presented with nothing else. Many of my friends hold extreme nostalgia toward the Disney products, and when questioned they can get a little defensive.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer September 08, 2020 11:00 AM  

Disney trawls our cultural history like an industrial fishing schooner. Sucking up everything, add enough satanic spin for (((trademark lawyers))) to give thier say so....Herculese....u mean Hunkuleeeeese (a great a story that pedestalises a traitor vagina transportation system. how cutely subversive) ... they get to trademark evil, call it art, and have the force of law to enforce/ ensure profit.

Blogger Aquila Aquilonis September 08, 2020 11:01 AM  

He was an anti-communist, so he wasn't all bad.

Blogger Newscaper312 September 08, 2020 11:04 AM  

Saw the movie Saving Mr Banks a year or so ago. Excellent underated performance by Colin Farrell, who really can act, playing the father of the woman who authored the Mary Poppins book. Interesting the conflict between her and Disney about bastardizing her story for the screen.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 08, 2020 11:13 AM  

Even Tolkien's silly songs were far better, such as "That's What Bilbo Baggins Hates", "Troll and Tom", or "Attercop". Disney songs such as "Heigh Ho, It's Off to Work We Go" are flat-out boring, even if you don't have to make up your own tune.

Blogger RedJack September 08, 2020 11:19 AM  

I am going to go through this with my kids tonight. Funny thing, my oldest has sensed it. She loves some of the "old" Disney stories, but Sweetie Bear has said "Dad they don't seem real to me. That is not how people act!"

Now she is watching Anime, and the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better. She is not a fan of Tolkein yet, but her sister Honey Bear loves the Hobbit.

I do not expect my bears to love all that I love. But I am happy they are starting to see the Lie in places.

Blogger Zapp Brannigan September 08, 2020 11:24 AM  

I have a book of the collected letters of Tolkien. His open disdain for Disney is quite clear.

However, there is a letter to Forrest Akerman, his literary agent in America, where he provides his commentary on a fifty-page screenplay sent to him by a first-time screenwriter. Reading it, you can understand why Tolkien was not keen on Disney producing a movie version of the Hobbit or LOTR. He rails against the treatment's contraction of time and disregard of seasons, its overuse of the Eagles as a means of conveyance, its complete ignorance of the Nazgul's malevolence, its "silly" treatment of hobbits, its overreliance on action and fights, and its brazen additions of characters and events to the tale. Bear in mind, this was a screenplay written at the behest of a literary agent whom Tolkien trusted; I can't imagine what dreck Disney would have produced with full ownership of the rights.

It also puts the lie to the assumption that Tolkien would have approved of the Jackson trilogy. I believe he would have liked it much more than the proposed screenplay he reviewed back in the '50s, particularly the dramatic beauty of New Zealand as a stand-in for Middle Earth and amazing set pieces like that of Khazad-dum and Minas Tirith. But the thoughtless, politically-driven changes to his work would have had him seeing red.

Anonymous Anonymous September 08, 2020 11:26 AM  

Wondering why Hollywood allowed Peter Jackson to make the movies he did from Tolkien's works. Somewhere, maybe here, someone noted that those who invert the truth must always show you the real truth somewhere along the line.

Blogger Silly but True September 08, 2020 11:30 AM  

There was financial incentive to animators to ever-out silly their peers: Disney gave bonuses to animators if their particular dwarf made the cut, and spot bounties if they created a particular sight gag for their dwarf that made the final cut.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2016/jul/01/burpy-baldy-deafy-snow-white-seven-dwarfs-auctioned-artwork-disney

They really tried to get Sniffy the Dwarf in the film, but “Joe” would have been a bit out of place.

Blogger Doktor Jeep September 08, 2020 11:30 AM  

"Some might brush away their opinions as two Oxford dons gazing down their noses at American mass entertainment."
When I read that line I suddenly realized that the collapse of the United States is going to be the only way to save western civilization.
Dark have been my thoughts...

Blogger Random September 08, 2020 11:47 AM  

I don't understand the confusion about the pluralization of Dwarf.

If we're talking about humans with a genetic problem, it's Dwarfs and Dwarfen.

If we're talking about the stout subterranean men with beards and a penchant for mining from European folklore, it's Dwarves and Dwarven.

Why the issue? Even Games Workshop screws this up.

Blogger [Redacted] September 08, 2020 11:47 AM  

Walt Disney made a Faustian deal, and now the demon wears his face, and is synonymous with his ancestral family name. The cultures of the world are openly plundered and stories are sold back to their people, but robbed of their strength and their true value. Copyright shenanigans were forwarded to protect this war and plunder, and it led to the patenting of genetic sequences and the wholesale ownership of the processes of life itself. What else could anyone have expected from a "Magic Kingdom"?

Blogger Hoyabembe September 08, 2020 12:08 PM  

I think most of what Tolkien accomplished is letting omegas and gammas think they can be Chad alpha heroes.

Blogger Greg from the Piedmont September 08, 2020 12:17 PM  

The damage done to "The Chronicles of Narnia" by Disney must have had Lewis spinning in his grave.

My kids had all seven books read to them multiple times before the movie came out, so while they liked the the action on the screen, they knew the stories were missing important points, even if they only could say, "I didn't like it."

Concerning "The Hobbit" and the LOTR movies, they were forced to treat them as completely unrelated to Tolkien. The omission of "The Scouring of the Shire" was unforgivable, but "The Hobbit" movies were more than they can take. They refuse to watch them now.

Blogger VFM #7634 September 08, 2020 12:38 PM  

The omission of "The Scouring of the Shire" was unforgivable

I guess it was seen as hitting too close to home for the left-wingnuts, considering that it's Tolkien's take on a Communist takeover spearheaded by sketchy immivaders.

Blogger Naaaaaaaah I'm Good September 08, 2020 12:44 PM  

(((They))) got ahold of Disney and that's all she wrote. It was both revenge at Walt Disney AND continuing parasitical behavior AND perverting ideals and people. As someone here wrote before, I am embracing the power of "AND".

Walt's early works were meant to be lowbrow, as a cheap slice of predictable entertainment for adults, not children. Snow White is an example of the best it could be, and it wasn't aimed at kids.
Once (((they))) embraced the power of "AND"...well, you know the drill.

Saul Zaentz and company owns the rights to LOTR and The Hobbit, and I too am surprised that they were made. Of course they were extensively rewritten (The Two Towers) because they are largely unfilmable as they exist in print.

Also, a reminder that Tolkien utterly refused to allow The Beatles to film LOTR. (Ringo was supposed to be Gollum, I believe).

Blogger Naaaaaaaah I'm Good September 08, 2020 12:55 PM  

"If we're talking about humans with a genetic problem, it's Dwarfs and Dwarfen."

They're still midgets to me. Just like I still use 'cripple' in print and speech. There's no shame in it. Jesus healed the cripples. He didn't heal the differently-abled or the handi-capable.

We moved from 'stupid' to 'retarded' to make things polite is a high trust society.

Now the 'medical community' has moved to 'developmentally disabled' or 'having intellectual disabilities' as if in some way this is better for the retarded and their caregivers. In fact, the medical community will help you with your future retarded child by offering abortion...erm, a 'termination procedure' as a valid solution.

Blogger basementhomebrewer September 08, 2020 1:08 PM  

The main thing I took from the piece is the stories for children vs children's stories. That was likely the start of the satanic take over. Nearly all children's entertainment has been reduced to frivolous drivel. There are virtually no options for serious works for children in today's market without going back 70 years. Failing to teach children valuable lessons at a young age prepares them to be taught inverted lessons in their teens when hormones give the enemy a helping hand.

Blogger CM September 08, 2020 1:14 PM  

I can see that - the way Disney treats the symbols of the supernatural (unless it is villainy) is trite, weak, and silly. From the dwarves and the Fairy Godmother to Mooshoo and the ancestors, they treat foundational lore with a kind of contempt when they make them mock-worthy.

Blogger Doktor Jeep September 08, 2020 1:33 PM  

What was Tolkien's opinions on science fiction? I cannot even imagine he had one.

Blogger Yossarian September 08, 2020 1:59 PM  

I see this massive reverence towards Tolkien, Lewis, and Disney. Idolizing these men is the same as a couch potato watching re-runs of sports. I'm really beginning to loathe this attitude.

Keep in mind that while westerners hold LOTR as the greatest thing ever because "muh Christian values", others built a whole franchise around the story of Jesus Christ with far less resources and with many more "profits": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwpAGiTxvo&ab_channel=SL7eVen

All were men and all are dead. We are here. This is our time. What does it matter if dwarves are goofy or gritty? They do not exist. These stories are not Scripture, they are entertainment and as such its purpose is to inspire people to act. If their works (whatever they may be) do not inspire you to act then they have fundamentally failed.

Blogger Timmy3 September 08, 2020 2:01 PM  

Why watch any movie adaption? The medium requires compromises. While I can’t defend today’s Disney, the golden age of Disney had some great classics. If we can’t enjoy them, then what’s the use.

Blogger OneWingedShark September 08, 2020 2:31 PM  

[Redacted] wrote:Copyright shenanigans were forwarded to protect this war and plunder, and it led to the patenting of genetic sequences and the wholesale ownership of the processes of life itself.
The state of patent & copyright is an absolute tragedy.
It is, perhaps, one of the best illustrations how the Judicial- and legal-systems have usurped power.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd September 08, 2020 2:32 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:What was Tolkien's opinions on science fiction? I cannot even imagine he had one.
Fairy tales are morality plays set in a mythical past, where magic makes the stories more interesting.
Science fiction is morality plays set in a mythical future, where science makes the stories more interesting.

Modern fairy tales and modern science fiction have become wastelands of inverted morality penned by perverted atheists.

Is it really necessary to have separate opinions on fairy tales and science fiction?

Blogger Ranger September 08, 2020 2:33 PM  

Lewis Space Trilogy was a result of a deal between him and Tolkien where they would write "scientifiction" more to their taste.
Tolkien was supposed to write about Time-Travel, but never finished the story, though it was the seed of Númenor.

So, I suppose you could say he liked the idea of science fiction, but disliked its implementation, specially since most such works were written by materialists.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2020 2:47 PM  

Yossarian wrote:We are here. This is our time. What does it matter if dwarves are goofy or gritty? They do not exist. These stories are not Scripture, they are entertainment and as such its purpose is to inspire people to act.
Whereby Yossarian demonstrates his complete lack of understanding of the nature of myth, imagination, creation and culture. You have literally not the slightest idea of what Tolkein was trying to accomplish, so you dismiss it out of hand. You're a fool and a pathetic wretch. You have nothing to contribute.

Blogger DanF September 08, 2020 3:00 PM  

@RedJack "Now she is watching Anime, and the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better."

I, too was impressed with Dragon Prince when my children started watching it, especially the soundtrack. My wife shut it down immediately, however, when one of the characters suddenly and unexpectedly shared a kiss with his husband. They cannot but subvert, these demons who feed on art.

I cannot wait to fund an unauthorized.tv
cartoon at this level.

Blogger Yossarian September 08, 2020 4:14 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You have literally not the slightest idea of what Tolkein was trying to accomplish, so you dismiss it out of hand. You're a fool and a pathetic wretch. You have nothing to contribute.

"what Tolkein was trying to accomplish"

"Trying?" Explain to me what Tolkien "tried to accomplish". I'm all ears. I thought he just wrote fantasy stories with a lot of original world-building in them but apparently he's some sort of holy prophet.

I do not dismiss Tolkien, I simply do not idolize him. Trying to entertain kids with stories with the goal of teaching them something good is a noble pursuit. Raising his works to the level of unquestionable masterpiece I find to be absolutely vile. All that does is stunt the growth of other creators while also making any subversive adaptation of LOTR also an "unquestionable masterpiece". Men are fallible therefore works of men are also fallible.

If the cancer spreads to Tolkien as well then the only solution is to cut it out and discard it. Fortunately unlike real tissue, works of fiction can always be replaced.

Blogger CM September 08, 2020 4:21 PM  

Yes!

I want unauthorized cartoons for kids!

Blogger Joe Smith September 08, 2020 4:23 PM  

It is difficult not to look askance at anyone that explicitly targets children. I'd say especially now, but that just might be a result of my awakening to something that's been obvious to other people for a while.

Blogger Chris Lopes September 08, 2020 4:36 PM  

I always thought of it as Walking Tall:Hobbit Edition.

Blogger eclecticme September 08, 2020 4:42 PM  

I thought this Disney poster was satire back when.
Turns out it was a prediction or road map.
I recall this poster was the subject of some court case.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/90/67/5b/90675b1b4b98196133fc2d7bfb6aaa7a--disneyland-disney-cruiseplan.jpg

Blogger SirHamster September 08, 2020 5:09 PM  

Silent Draco wrote:That overall absence of the Presence was like a gas attack warning to both dons.
Fine chefs noticing fast food not for nourishment, but cheap junk that leaves the consumer fat, full, and empty.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2020 5:11 PM  

Yossarian wrote:Raising his works to the level of unquestionable masterpiece I find to be absolutely vile... Fortunately unlike real tissue, works of fiction can always be replaced.
It is not a "work of fiction" you utter pimple.
It is a work of myth.
Would you say that about Shakespeare, Mozart, Homer or Aesop? It's just "art". If it's not entertaining enough for children, it can be replaced.
If you would, you are a wrecker and no better than the Cultural Marxists.

Blogger Better Left Unsaid September 08, 2020 5:21 PM  

Zapp Brannigan wrote:
However, there is a letter to Forrest Akerman, his literary agent in America, where he provides his commentary on a fifty-page screenplay sent to him by a first-time screenwriter. Reading it, you can understand why Tolkien was not keen on Disney producing a movie version of the Hobbit or LOTR. He rails against the treatment's contraction of time and disregard of seasons, its overuse of the Eagles as a means of conveyance, its complete ignorance of the Nazgul's malevolence, its "silly" treatment of hobbits, its overreliance on action and fights, and its brazen additions of characters and events to the tale. Bear in mind, this was a screenplay written at the behest of a literary agent whom Tolkien trusted;

Forrest Ackerman was, at best, an ardent atheist, and worked for the corruption of society through Sci Fi that would demean and degrade the moral fabric of American society. It's hard to imagine a worse agent for Tolkien.

Blogger Yossarian September 08, 2020 5:56 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Would you say that about Shakespeare, Mozart, Homer or Aesop?

Absolutely.
I don't give a damn who's art you worship. Cultural Marxist do. Then they take it, then they subvert it, then they feed it back to you. And you're none the wiser your false idol has been switched until it's too late.

I can tell you're someone who hasn't even interacted with a creative type. If you had you would have known they themselves don't give a damn about anything else except whatever they're currently working on especially stuff they've already made. I assure you that when Tolkien was writing LOTR he thought "The Hobbit" was shit. And whenever someone told him "I liked The Hobbit better" he thought that person was a moron. For them there is only forward.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2020 6:06 PM  

Yossarian wrote:I can tell you're someone who hasn't even interacted with a creative type.
Being a "creative type" and having raised 4 of them, I think I know a little something that perhaps you don't.
If you had you would have known they themselves don't give a damn about anything else except whatever they're currently working on especially stuff they've already made. I assure you that when Tolkien was writing LOTR he thought "The Hobbit" was shit.
This is absolutely false. You could bother to read what he actually wrote about it. Oh no, you couldn't because it's always year zero.

You have to go back. You are not American. You are not even a member of Western Civilization. You are a useless waste of oxygen.

Go back to whatever Caucasian, Mideast or Asian shithole will have you. You have nothing in common with us.

Anonymous Anonymous September 08, 2020 6:08 PM  

@10 Newscaper312: One of my English professors, who was teaching back at my alma mater when P.L. Travers did a year there as a "writer in residence," recalled that she was an absolutely cold and arrogant c^%t. I loved her books, though, and have read them numerous times. As opposed to the Disney character, who was all sugar and spice and smiles and magic, the literary character was strict, stern, and logical (which provides normal White children with order and security) and her magic was an unpredictable change from the daily standard of upper-middle class English life (which is brilliantly portrayed in the books). A beautiful homage to how an Englishman was made - the order and discipline plus the spirit of adventure and acquisition of knowledge. That's absent in all American movies and most American literature. Childhood can and should be magical, but most never learn the difference between sentiment and sentimental.

Blogger RedJack September 08, 2020 6:14 PM  

DanF, I either missed that or we are not there yet. Sweetie Bear is now interested in How Its Made and Torchlighters, but I will start looking at Dragon prince more closely

Blogger Yossarian September 08, 2020 6:20 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You have to go back. You are not American. You are not even a member of Western Civilization.

You are a deluded boomer who's having a whole conversation with himself.
I am not American, I am not from "Western Civilization", I am not a migrant, and I like the shithole where I live.
Control yourself.

Looking at the state of things I'm beginning to suspect all these things you people worship maybe they're not so good. Maybe they were never good in the first place. Maybe this whole fanaticism towards man-made PRODUCTS is the root of the problem.

Blogger Noah B. September 08, 2020 6:23 PM  

If the cancer spreads to Tolkien as well then the only solution is to cut it out and discard it.

If you wanted an instruction manual on how to lose a culture war, here it is.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2020 6:31 PM  

Yossarian wrote:I'm beginning to suspect all these things you people worship
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Maybe idol worship comes more easily to you.

Blogger Yossarian September 08, 2020 6:33 PM  

Noah B. wrote:If you wanted an instruction manual on how to lose a culture war, here it is.

Why didn't you quote me entirely?
What I said was:
Yossarian wrote:If the cancer spreads to Tolkien as well then the only solution is to cut it out and discard it. Fortunately unlike real tissue, works of fiction can always be replaced.

Culture wars are won by creating, not by endlessly masturbating over how great boomer novels were.

Blogger SirHamster September 08, 2020 6:38 PM  

Yossarian wrote:I am not American, I am not from "Western Civilization", I am not a migrant, and I like the shithole where I live.
In which case you can kindly keep your opinions on the relative worth of Tolkien, Lewis, and Disney to yourself.

We'll be sure to ping you when we want to consult the shithole take on Western culture.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 08, 2020 6:48 PM  

"I am not American, I am not from "Western Civilization"

And you haven't so much as bothered to read what you're talking about. Shut up.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 08, 2020 6:50 PM  

"If the cancer spreads to Tolkien as well then the only solution is to cut it out and discard it.

If you wanted an instruction manual on how to lose a culture war, here it is."


Yep. "If there's so much as a tiff over the culture, best to throw it in the burn bin".

News, stupid: Culture getting burned is the enemy's win, it's what they were planning on doing to it anyway, just maybe after defecating on it first.

Blogger Bezzle September 08, 2020 6:55 PM  

The only Disney material that has stood the test of time for me is that which the Mouse has been ignoring since release. "Dragonslayer" (1981) has never had a blu-ray release, "Tron: Uprising" never had a physical-media release, and "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" didn't have a blu-ray release until last year. And, even though it wasn't made by them, the original theatrical cut of "Star Wars" remains buried to this day under Disney.

@33. DanF September 08, 2020 3:00 PM
@RedJack "Now she is watching Anime, and the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better."

I, too was impressed with Dragon Prince when my children started watching it, especially the soundtrack. My wife shut it down immediately, however, when one of the characters suddenly and unexpectedly shared a kiss with his husband. They cannot but subvert, these demons who feed on art.


IIRC, "Dragon Prince" was an American-made Netflix cartoon (not true anime), so not surprised by that.

If you can find them (and bittorent may be your only recourse, as many a long out of print), grab the English dubs for the Nippon Animation's "Masterpiece Theater" (no relation to PBS) series.

"Marco, 3000 Leagues in Search for Mother", "Romeo's Blue Skies", and "Future Boy Conan" (NHK General TV) are especially good, at least as far as inspiring boys to a moral upbringing.

Blogger Reader September 08, 2020 7:30 PM  

Tolkien instinctively rejected the godlessness of the grabbler, however prettily and innocently it presented itself.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club ) September 08, 2020 7:40 PM  

26. Doktor Jeep September 08, 2020 1:33 PM
What was Tolkien's opinions on science fiction? I cannot even imagine he had one.



how could he not?

Verne and Wells and Burroughs ( to name but 3 of the most popular authors ) all preceded his authoring of The Hobbit.

he may not have been much impressed by Science Fiction but he could hardly have failed to have an opinion on it.


27. Yossarian September 08, 2020 1:59 PM
If their works (whatever they may be) do not inspire you to act then they have fundamentally failed.


and what does the fact that your post has failed to inspire me to act imply?



34. Yossarian September 08, 2020 4:14 PM
I do not dismiss Tolkien, I simply do not idolize him.



how cute.

first you accuse us of idolizing a man, then you leverage that Straw Man to cast aspersions at us
...
and demonstrate your own supposed superiority.

you're doing a fine emulation of Taylor and Ann Manning.

why don't you nominate a more significant Fantasy author than Tolkien? you know, since you find him so trifling and ineffectual.

how much must you despise the Catholic (
Orthodox, etc, insert denomination here ) Church for failing to induce action in their congregations?

or hadn't you considered the implications of your Logic?



40. Snidely Whiplash September 08, 2020 5:11 PM
Would you say that about Shakespeare, Mozart, Homer or Aesop?


oh, look! more authors who have failed to inspire me to any direct action!


42. Yossarian September 08, 2020 5:56 PM
If you had you would have known they themselves don't give a damn about anything else except whatever they're currently working on especially stuff they've already made. I assure you that when Tolkien was writing LOTR he thought "The Hobbit" was shit.



the stupid, it burns. and my goggles do nothing.

he says this of the author who was still re-writing The Hobbit almost 20 years after publishing it in 1937.

https://sweatingtomordor.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/were-tolkiens-changes-to-the-hobbit-really-a-good-idea/

of course, this is also the same man who started writing the Silmarillion in 1914 and still hadn't completed it when he died in 1973.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( The first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club ) September 08, 2020 7:54 PM  

tell us, Yossarian
...
((( YOSSARIAN )))
...
what great acts have the literary ((( genius ))) of 'Catch 22' inspired you to undertake?

"In 1942, at age 19, he joined the U.S. Army Air Corps. Two years later he was sent to the Italian Front, where he flew 60 combat missions as a B-25 bombardier.[8] His unit was the 488th Bombardment Squadron, 340th Bomb Group, 12th Air Force. Heller later remembered the war as "fun in the beginning ... You got the feeling that there was something glorious about it."
...
Heller wrote, "Much differently than Yossarian felt and much differently than I felt when I wrote the novel … In truth I enjoyed it and so did just about everyone else I served with, in training and even in combat.""


weird.

i've read 'Catch 22'. "glorious", "fun", "enjoyment" and "inspiring" would be almost the precise inverse of the adjectives which i would use to describe that book and it's characterization of the American efforts in the European theater.

and mind you, this is a book written BY A JEW about the efforts to put an end to the supposed genocide of the 6 million.

things that make you go, "hrm".

Blogger Pathfinderlight September 08, 2020 7:55 PM  

The two women on the production team actively TRIED to rewrite the story as much as they could. They basically tell you as much in the DVD extras.

Blogger Naaaaaaaah I'm Good September 08, 2020 8:53 PM  

"The two women on the production team actively TRIED to rewrite the story as much as they could. They basically tell you as much in the DVD extras."

I mentioned this earlier. They also state in the commentary that they wrote themselves into a corner and weren't able to fix it, so they just let it lie.

Neither are particularly competent to adapt another's work, much less Tolkien.
Nor are they much good at writing because, you know, modern women.

Blogger SirHamster September 08, 2020 9:00 PM  

furor kek tonicus ( yo, LeBron. you're worth 500 mill, move to Africa and you could be a kangz ) wrote:and mind you, this is a book written BY A JEW about the efforts to put an end to the supposed genocide of the 6 million.

things that make you go, "hrm".

I thought the name was meaningful, forgot where it was from. Good points.

It's time to break out the Witch Test, then.

Yossarian wrote:Looking at the state of things I'm beginning to suspect all these things you people worship maybe they're not so good.
Confess that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead.

Blogger Ahărôwn September 08, 2020 9:30 PM  

Even as a child, I never liked Disney movies, and didn't get the hype surrounding it. Growing up in a traditional Christian home, along with no TV will help with that.

The Fess Parker movies are pretty good, but the rest is meh, at best.

The Fundamentalists were right.

Blogger Newscaper312 September 08, 2020 9:42 PM  

Has anyone here seen the Tolkien movie, starring Nicholas Hoult (played young Beast in X-Men First Class) as the young author?

Blogger ex-pastor September 08, 2020 9:43 PM  

Ironically it’s a Disney film.

Blogger sammibandit September 08, 2020 10:07 PM  

I agree with a commenter on the OP. Thank God for snobs.

Disney never brought me joy.

From "On Fairy Stories"

"This "joy" which I have selected as the mark of the true fairy-story (or romance)," ...

The peculiar quality of the "joy" in successful Fantasy can thus be explained as a sudden glimpse of the underlying reality or truth. It is not only a "consolation" for the sorrow of this world, but a satisfaction, and an answer to that question, "Is it true?" The answer to this question that I gave at first was (quite rightly): "If you have built your little world well, yes: it is true in that world." That is enough for the artist (or the artist part of the artist). But in the "Eucatastrophe" we see in a brief vision that the answer may be greater-it may be a far-off gleam or echo of evangelium in the real world. The use of this word gives a hint of my epilogue. It is a serious and dangerous matter. It is presumptuous of me to touch upon such a theme; but if by grace what I say has in any respect any validity, it is, of course, only one facet of a truth incalculably rich: finite only because the capacity of Man for whom this was done is finite.


Snidley's correct. It's myth.

Blogger Doktor Jeep September 08, 2020 10:49 PM  

I have engaged the mental exercise of wondering what Tolkien would think of certain genres of the day. But that's not easy. I imagine he would have seen why the original Star Wars was popular, and how it was so due to such simple elements. But that would have merely reinforced the notions of an old well-learned Englishman that Americans are simpletons.
The rich backstory of the Halo genre, not the games themselves, as entertaining as it would be to imagine Tolkien trying to plan an FPS, might have impressed him. The entire "universe" of Tolkien is incredible and I think the people writing the Halo lore and backstory are trying to get to that level.

Blogger John Rockwell September 08, 2020 10:49 PM  

Zapp Brannigan wrote:I have a book of the collected letters of Tolkien. His open disdain for Disney is quite clear.

However, there is a letter to Forrest Akerman, his literary agent in America, where he provides his commentary on a fifty-page screenplay sent to him by a first-time screenwriter. Reading it, you can understand why Tolkien was not keen on Disney producing a movie version of the Hobbit or LOTR. He rails against the treatment's contraction of time and disregard of seasons, its overuse of the Eagles as a means of conveyance, its complete ignorance of the Nazgul's malevolence, its "silly" treatment of hobbits, its overreliance on action and fights, and its brazen additions of characters and events to the tale. Bear in mind, this was a screenplay written at the behest of a literary agent whom Tolkien trusted; I can't imagine what dreck Disney would have produced with full ownership of the rights.

It also puts the lie to the assumption that Tolkien would have approved of the Jackson trilogy. I believe he would have liked it much more than the proposed screenplay he reviewed back in the '50s, particularly the dramatic beauty of New Zealand as a stand-in for Middle Earth and amazing set pieces like that of Khazad-dum and Minas Tirith. But the thoughtless, politically-driven changes to his work would have had him seeing red.


I know even in the LOTR movie. Arwen replaces the Male Elf Glorfindel.

The Elves aren't Egalitarian but was strictly Patriarchal in their sex roles.

Putting women in male roles like that would have been one of the factors making JRR Tolkien seeing red.

Blogger John Rockwell September 08, 2020 10:51 PM  

Doktor Jeep wrote:"Some might brush away their opinions as two Oxford dons gazing down their noses at American mass entertainment."

When I read that line I suddenly realized that the collapse of the United States is going to be the only way to save western civilization.

Dark have been my thoughts...


America the great Satan. As Iran would say.

Blogger John Rockwell September 08, 2020 10:52 PM  

CM wrote:Yes!

I want unauthorized cartoons for kids!


I notice the Shonen often actually have decent writing that doesn't condescend to teens. They handle mature themes pretty well and treat the audience with respect to their understanding.

Blogger Some random guy September 09, 2020 12:38 AM  

@RedJack:
"Now she is watching Anime, and the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better."

Dragon Prince isn't anime, though Netflix wants people to think it is.

Tolkien's belief that Disney movies were condescending is probably not wrong, and it's a trait shared by most American animation. Things have to be kept very simple, active and upbeat to ensure kids don't ever get confused, bored or challenged. Avatar (which Dragon Prince is descended from) was considered groundbreaking in 2005 because it went against that trend and even had an on-going storyline and everything (still a rarity). Avatar owes its existence to anime, which had never made any great distinction between children's and adult stories. Shows with mature themes and complex narratives are as old as anime itself. When any of these shows reached American mainstream TV, they were invariably censored and tweaked to make them more appropriate for American kids, even adding music to remove silence and ambiguity.

Disney's equivalent in Japan is Studio Ghibli. Their movies have the broadest appeal, highest box office revenues, and most classic status in Japan. But their settings, stories and filmmaking style are very different from the latter's theatrical, fairytale-lite musicals.

A particularly good example for this post is Princess Mononoke, set in a mythical past where the human settlement of Iron Town is encroaching on an ancient forest populated by divine animals. The forest is ruled by the Deer God, which is not a talking animal but an unknowable, alien and even creepy being that both gives and takes away life. The animals are engaged in a brutal but losing war against the humans, and while they do perhaps have the moral high ground they are not exactly sympathetic--unlike Iron Town's people and their charismatic leader. Iron Town in turn has to fend off samurai who want their wealth for themselves. The protagonist enters the fray when the war spills into his village, and causes him to be cursed to die. He sets out to undo his curse and perhaps stop the war... if he can. Princess Mononoke is epic and mythological in a way that's much more similar to The Lord of the Rings than anything Disney ever made, but it's also grounded by its semi-historical setting and meticulously realized depiction of Iron Town.

What also sets Ghibli apart from Disney, and indeed what generally sets anime apart from American animation, is that its movies are the work of individuals with their own creative agendas. Hayao Miyazaki, who directed and conceived Mononoke, is not just near-synonymous with Ghibli, but also one of the great auteurs of Japanese animation and cinema. His movies aren't designed by committee, and there are clear aesthetic and thematic threads running through his filmography, even from before Ghibli was founded. Ghibli is also quite lacking in commercialism for a successful studio, as they've never made a sequel, don't engage in as much merchandising as other companies, and basically stopped producing anything after Miyazaki (temporarily) retired and Isao Takahata, their second most important director, died. The studio was really founded so they could make the movies they wanted, and it never cultivated a next generation of directors. Meanwhile, Disney just made yet another reboot that nobody asked for and nobody will remember a year from now.

It's a bit ironic that Disney ended up being their American distributor for a number of years. Although they were contractually forbidden from cutting the movies, they still added original lines to the dubs that slightly changed the stories. Castle in the Sky had its score modified because Disney thought there was too much silence, and American kids might get impatient and start shooting up the theatre or something.

Some music from Princess Mononoke:
https://youtu.be/nBADF1LdP3g
https://youtu.be/uxLh5Ak8U4A

Bonus: the opening credits to Castle in the Sky, which wordlessly establish the background of the setting:
https://youtu.be/-ukqzE-U6h8

Blogger Yossarian September 09, 2020 1:57 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Did you just quote The Princess Bride back at me as some sort of retort?

furor kek tonicus ( i used to hear just fine, then i took a booming Boomer to the eardrum ) wrote:and mind you, this is a book written BY A JEW about the efforts to put an end to the supposed genocide of the 6 million.

It's a book about how WW2 was a grabbler scam, liar. One main grabbler character was literally in cahoots with he Nazis because "business". Maybe listen to your own advice and read the books before creating strawmans to validate your opinions?

Catch-22 is not my religion, it's just a book I liked. If I thought it harmful I would throw it in the bin as well.

furor kek tonicus ( i used to hear just fine, then i took a booming Boomer to the eardrum ) wrote:you're doing a fine emulation of Taylor and Ann Manning.

why don't you nominate a more significant Fantasy author than Tolkien? you know, since you find him so trifling and ineffectual.

how much must you despise the Catholic (

Orthodox, etc, insert denomination here ) Church for failing to induce action in their congregations?

or hadn't you considered the implications of your Logic?


These are the ramblings of an insane person. You're accusing me of attacking Christianity while in my first post I'm praising entertainment derived from Christianity. When you cooled down write a coherent phrase and stop having this whole other conversation in your head. I can't read minds.

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Yep. "If there's so much as a tiff over the culture, best to throw it in the burn bin".

News, stupid: Culture getting burned is the enemy's win, it's what they were planning on doing to it anyway, just maybe after defecating on it first.


Strawman. I specifically said "cancer". Yet another example of mental illness triggered by not showing sufficient adoration toward cultural saints. If this conversation were about cancer spreading to something culturally western like the NFL or comics nobody here would have disagreed if I were to say the exact same things. Which I did several times.

And just to be clear because I don't think any of you have the capacity of discernment: I never once said the cancer spread to Tolkien. I don't think he qualifies as somethings that needs to be cut out. Neither does Lewis. Disney yes. However when it will spread I won't hesitate to burn it no matter how nostalgic I may feel about them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 09, 2020 2:26 AM  

Yossarian wrote:Did you just quote The Princess Bride back at me as some sort of retort?
Do words have meanings,or are they merely a vehicle for your unmerited self-regard pretending to some kind of moral superiority?

Do you understand what the words mean, or are you too freaked out by the fact that they also occurred in a book (and in a movie) to actually regard them as words?

Either way, your purpose here seems to be to signal your superior moral virtue. You don't have any such thing, so you can fuck right off, clown.

Blogger Yossarian September 09, 2020 2:56 AM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Do words have meanings,or are they merely a vehicle for your unmerited self-regard pretending to some kind of moral superiority?

Of course words have meaning, boomer. Why not use your own words instead of quoting a decade old meme?

Snidely Whiplash wrote:You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. Maybe idol worship comes more easily to you.

You accused me of not understanding "worship" in one sentence, then in the next you accuse me of being innately prone to "worship".

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Either way, your purpose here seems to be to signal your superior moral virtue.

And here's the nerve I've struck. Hey, boomer: liking Star Wars, or Tolkien, or Metallica's oldest stuff is not a measure of morality.

Blogger Ranger September 09, 2020 3:02 AM  

Not to mention, how CAN the cancer even spread to Tolkien? He's dead. His son and literary heir and executor is also dead. We have his works. We will always have his works. I have most of his books in my bookshelves, what can SJWs do to them?

If SJWs publish crap using his works as a skinsuit, that will not be Tolkien, it will be simply bad fanfic.

Blogger SirHamster September 09, 2020 3:16 AM  

Yossarian fails the Witch Test.

Blogger Yossarian September 09, 2020 7:52 AM  

SirHamster wrote:Yossarian fails the Witch Test.

If promoting new creators while looking at the works of the past as a surmountable mountain makes me a witch I guess I'm with talking the wrong crowd.

All I want is to make stuff. People who only want to stand in a circle and wax poetic about what better men have made make me wanna puke.

Blogger Ranger September 09, 2020 8:19 AM  

@Yossarian You sure are. You will be better off following the latest Hugo winners, since they are all about new creators and jettisoning the past.

Year 0 philosophy personified.

Blogger Yossarian September 09, 2020 8:26 AM  

Ranger wrote:new creators and jettisoning the past.
What you boomers fail to understand is that creating something new =/= jettisoning the past.

Anonymous Anonymous September 09, 2020 8:31 AM  

No surprise there, as Tolkien respected the fairy tales and Disney does not. He wouldn't want Hollywood "glamorized" tales that didn't understand what the stories were about and certainly wouldn't want the dumbed down versions Disney makes.

I don't understand folks who love Disney, because it's like cotton candy: cheap, sweet and lacking substance. It's kids stuff, not meant for even teens; Tolkien is steak by comparison. I was obsessed with the Bakshi adaptations as kid, so Disney never stood a chance. Thank God for anime and the Disney alternatives available in the 80s.

Blogger Troushers September 09, 2020 8:49 AM  

You claim to want to promote new creators, yet have curiously dodged multiple opportunities to do so.

Who cares if the root of the tree is destroyed when you can enjoy the pretty new fruit on its branches?

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 09, 2020 9:26 AM  

"the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better."

No? Even less subtle in fact, in many ways. Wait until s2 when the princess starts talking about her (?) mothers.

Let's see, halfricans waz kangs, aryans destroyed the world because they're dumb/ignoble/easily corrupted. Every single male is some combination of weak/stupid/clumsy/incompetent/evil, with the only exceptions of waz kang and his son, while women are all strong/wise/adroit/dependable/good with the sole exceptions of one of the MCs being less than wise and another dabbling in black magic because her father taught it to her and pushed her past her limits.

It's not better, it's just clever enough to walk the dubious line a bit until your kids are hooked in S2, when it busts out the race/nation of lesbians somehow having children, that the whites arrived at always-stupid-evil alignment via being initially crippled, talentless, and envious, and that the lesbian child ruler is the wisest and most just, and so on and so forth.

It's a real woke piece of work, raising the SJW bar.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 09, 2020 9:40 AM  

"Strawman. I specifically said "cancer"."

Too stupid to accept obvious metaphorical analogue? But of course you are!

Look moron, there are physical uncorrupted copies of the books and likely will be for a very long time to come. They're easily available. It doesn't have cancer, it just has a faux version or three. Now, since you're clearly not learning new tricks, such as basic logic, as an old dog, stop talking before you fray further.

"You accused me of not understanding "worship" in one sentence, then in the next you accuse me of being innately prone to "worship"."

You can do something without knowing what it is or understanding it or even why, we even have multiple words for these, such as intuition, reflex, subconscious, etc. Basic logic? Commonsense? English comprehension? Now shut your yappy dog mouth and go at least learn the fundamentals, if you even can.

"And just to be clear because I don't think"

Yea no, you can stop right there and at least be honest. Oh right, you're not even playing for my team, as Hamster and you have demonstrated, so it's not a problem of stupidity, lack of any attempt at education, or inability to perceive the obvious, it's deceit and wickedness. It really isn't hard to confess that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. Well, you know, unless you're a demoniacal wormtongue in sheep's clothes, then it might sear the lips a bit.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 09, 2020 9:41 AM  

"All I want is to make stuff. People who only want to stand in a circle and wax poetic about what better men have made make me wanna puke."

Doesn't want to be measured against anyone else, though of course anyone who he might be measured against is crap anyway.

Blogger John Rockwell September 09, 2020 10:09 AM  

Yossarian wrote:SirHamster wrote:Yossarian fails the Witch Test.

If promoting new creators while looking at the works of the past as a surmountable mountain makes me a witch I guess I'm with talking the wrong crowd.

All I want is to make stuff. People who only want to stand in a circle and wax poetic about what better men have made make me wanna puke.


That's not far from the Fedora tipping Atheists treating the Bible with contempt as a Bronze Age Primitive Myth.

Yes the Bible is Mythological in its Literary genre.

By making Myth as just for silly children and not for grown up Materialist adults.

Is why a lot of Adult Fiction is cynical godless trash.

And Fairy stories are infantile childish fantasies.


Tip your Fedora somewhere else.

Blogger Bezzle September 09, 2020 10:35 AM  

@68 Some random guy
Some music from Princess Mononoke:

https://youtu.be/nBADF1LdP3g
https://youtu.be/uxLh5Ak8U4A

Bonus: the opening credits to Castle in the Sky, which wordlessly establish the background of the setting:

https://youtu.be/-ukqzE-U6h8

Miyazaki is also responsible for much of "Future Boy Conan", which I mentioned earlier.

--It's an indication of the decay of American cinema that three-decade old Japanese cartoons represent the high water mark of Western visual culture.

Even Tollywood puts us to shame.

Blogger Yossarian September 09, 2020 11:14 AM  

Troushers wrote:You claim to want to promote new creators, yet have curiously dodged multiple opportunities to do so.



It's literally there in my first post, liar:
Yossarian wrote:I see this massive reverence towards Tolkien, Lewis, and Disney. Idolizing these men is the same as a couch potato watching re-runs of sports. I'm really beginning to loathe this attitude.

Keep in mind that while westerners hold LOTR as the greatest thing ever because "muh Christian values", others built a whole franchise around the story of Jesus Christ with far less resources and with many more "profits": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwpAGiTxvo&ab_channel=SL7eVen

All were men and all are dead. We are here. This is our time. What does it matter if dwarves are goofy or gritty? They do not exist. These stories are not Scripture, they are entertainment and as such its purpose is to inspire people to act. If their works (whatever they may be) do not inspire you to act then they have fundamentally failed.



I'm done with you hypocrites. Rot in the retirement homes you belong.
At no point did anyone accuse Arkhaven Comics of "year zero" because they dared question the greatness of cultural institutions like Marvel and DC, and that they didn't really care that much for Stan Lee or Kirby. Creating something does not imply destruction.

John Rockwell wrote:Yes the Bible is Mythological in its Literary genre.

Ok, boomer.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash September 09, 2020 12:04 PM  

Yossarian wrote:If promoting new creators while looking at the works of the past as a surmountable mountain makes me a witch I guess I'm with talking the wrong crowd.


The witch test you failed is is this:
Confess that Jesus is Lord and He is raised from the dead

Blogger John Rockwell September 09, 2020 12:39 PM  

@84.Yossarian
This is you:

Tips Fedora*

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/710/689/db2.gif


Begone Fedora. We never knew your reddit ass.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine September 09, 2020 1:39 PM  

"At no point did anyone accuse Arkhaven Comics of "year zero" because they dared question the greatness of cultural institutions like Marvel and DC, and that they didn't really care that much for Stan Lee or Kirby. Creating something does not imply destruction."

Neither of which were ever even implicitly Christian, and frankly, both Lewis and Tolkien hammer you into the ground in that regard, I'll eject you first ten thousand times over in their preference. You're never going to succeed at squaring that circle, toolbag, someone else producing an inaccurate version of their work at a later date is obviously not either of these two being cancerous, you absolute wicked fucktard.

Blogger SirHamster September 09, 2020 3:06 PM  

Yossarian is a witch because he pretended to have a common spiritual foundation with Christians, but does not confess that Jesus is Lord.

Once someone fails the Witch Test, don't bother trying to reason with them. They speak in bad faith; ravenous wolves seeking to devour the flock. Burn them, ban them, or whatever is appropriate for a witch.

Notice how he used religious language at the start to try to pass as "one of us". When he later admits some differences, he carefully omits the fact he is not Christian.
Yossarian wrote:Idolizing these men
These stories are not Scripture
He says these things because he knows Christians are against idolatry and respect Scripture. But he does not have Christian beliefs, he only wants to use Christian beliefs as leverage against Christians.

Yossarian wrote:I am not American, I am not from "Western Civilization", I am not a migrant, and I like the shithole where I live.
He is willing to note he is not of the American nation or from Western culture, relevant facts of identity to this blog's readers. But he leaves out the difference in religion, even though his appeal to Scripture and idolatry means he knows there is a difference and that this is important to Christians.

He wasn't quite shameless enough to claim Christian identity, but his failure to note his lack is deceptive and dishonest when attempting to make claims on spiritual matters.

SirHamster wrote:Yossarian wrote:Looking at the state of things I'm beginning to suspect all these things you people worship maybe they're not so good.

Confess that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead.

When challenged to confess Jesus is Lord, he ignores it. He cares to criticize what "you people" (Christians) worship, but He doesn't care to affirm that Jesus is Lord.

The one without Christ is unfit to judge the worship of those belonging to Christ.

Yossarian wrote:These are the ramblings of an insane person. You're accusing me of attacking Christianity while in my first post I'm praising entertainment derived from Christianity.
He does take the time to draw favor by pretending to defend Christianity. Or rather, "entertainment" derived from Christianity.

Christ-inspired myth is much more than entertainment. Absent Christ, the goals and standards the Witch promotes are crooked.

Yossarian wrote:SirHamster wrote:Yossarian fails the Witch Test.

If promoting new creators while looking at the works of the past as a surmountable mountain makes me a witch I guess I'm with talking the wrong crowd.

Finally, he is stirred to respond when called out as a witch. Still no response to the question of Jesus's Lordship, but he does pretend innocence by changing the subject.

Such is the way of the Witch. She eats and wipes her mouth and says, 'I've done nothing wrong.'

Yossarian, we are not the wrong crowd. You are the dishonest snake who has no truth in him.

His sodomite preference for living in a shithole was a major tell, but the Witch Test is inerrant. Learn it, use it, and root out the subversives among you.

Blogger Troushers September 09, 2020 4:15 PM  

For those who haven't followed the link above, Yossarian appears to be suggesting that Fist Of The North Star (a japanese cartoon featuring a warrior who causes things he punches to explode) is "the story of Jesus Christ" skilfully implemented on the level of a story by Tolkien or Lewis.

Is "Transformers" the new and improved War and Peace?
Is "Thundercats" a triumphant improvement on Milton's "Paradise Lost"?

Please Yossarian, I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, it is hilarious.

Blogger Some random guy September 09, 2020 5:01 PM  

@83 Bezzle, I've seen Conan. Unmistakably his work.

These days it seems like if you want to see flattering, accurate or fair portrayals of Western culture, aesthetics and people without Diversity™ and other funny business, you're much more likely to find it in anime than anything Western.

I like that Tollywood clip.

Blogger L.Fairchild September 09, 2020 6:48 PM  

DanF wrote:@RedJack "Now she is watching Anime, and the level of writing on say Dragon Prince is much better."

I, too was impressed with Dragon Prince when my children started watching it, especially the soundtrack. My wife shut it down immediately, however, when one of the characters suddenly and unexpectedly shared a kiss with his husband. They cannot but subvert, these demons who feed on art.

I cannot wait to fund an unauthorized.tv

cartoon at this level.


Your first and only warning should have been that it was a Netflix original. I can't imagine you'll find anything even remotely appropriate for children that's been produced since at least 2010.
Show them Studio Ghibli if you haven't yet..it's not perfect, but it's leagues better than anything produced by Netflix. Someone else here mentioned the World Masterpiece Theatre - yes! Check out the Soyuzmultfilm company as well. They were a russian animation studio and they did what is in my opinion the best film adaptation of "The Jungle Book" that I've ever seen, and they have absolutely striking art in many of their productions (they do a version of "the snow queen" that's beautiful and loyal to the original, not like the weird garbage that was "frozen").
A lot of modern children seem to have a hard time enjoying old animation when they've been raised on the new stuff, but I still recommend it.

An Unauthorized animated production would be an astounding thing to see. It's such an incredibly laborious medium that it almost seems impossible... Also, does anyone remember the Rankin/Bass / Topcraft adaptation of "The Hobbit" ? Yes the pacing was janky - that's the hardest thing to coordinate in an animated film, but I have always been a huge fan of the Topcraft character design (See "The Last Unicorn" for a much better directed film...incidentally, the author of the book wrote the screenplay so that might have played a part in it's smoothness). It breaks my heart that there aren't more animated films of that aesthetic caliber.

Blogger Unknown September 09, 2020 8:52 PM  

"its purpose is to inspire people to act"

Agit-prop =/= art. Art inspires reflection on the eternal verities.

Blogger Some random guy September 09, 2020 10:04 PM  

@33, @91 An independently produced animation series is possible. There's a Japanese one that's hand-drawn and professional quality, but the episodes are half normal length and released slower. In 2017 there was a full length children's TV show called Kemono Friends that was made by a tiny team with hardly any professional experience, using janky 3D animation. It became the biggest hit of the year in Japan, so not too bad. You could basically make the same thing independently, but it would take longer without the funding to be able to work on it full-time.

If it doesn't have to be a series then it's not too outlandish to make something, hand-drawn or otherwise.

Blogger John Rockwell September 10, 2020 4:19 AM  

Troushers wrote:For those who haven't followed the link above, Yossarian appears to be suggesting that Fist Of The North Star (a japanese cartoon featuring a warrior who causes things he punches to explode) is "the story of Jesus Christ" skilfully implemented on the level of a story by Tolkien or Lewis.

Is "Transformers" the new and improved War and Peace?

Is "Thundercats" a triumphant improvement on Milton's "Paradise Lost"?

Please Yossarian, I wish to subscribe to your newsletter, it is hilarious.


Fist of the North Star is very good Manga. And the Anime likewsie does feature very good themes.

Of Manliness, of Romance to reclaim a long lost wife that was stolen by a Man who was his adopted brother.

And who like him and other Men inherited the assassination art that enabled them to kill Men by hitting their pressure points.

And there is plenty more themes very reminiscent of Mad Max. And the Main character being out for revenge against his adopted brothers who betrayed him and who themselves carve out for themselves Territories as Warlords of their own Empires.

Along the way liberates the oppressed from Criminal Gangs that do as they please and helping to rebuild Civilization in the process.

That's the only thing I would agree with him on.

Blogger John Rockwell September 10, 2020 4:19 AM  

Some random guy wrote:@83 Bezzle, I've seen Conan. Unmistakably his work.

These days it seems like if you want to see flattering, accurate or fair portrayals of Western culture, aesthetics and people without Diversity™ and other funny business, you're much more likely to find it in anime than anything Western.

I like that Tollywood clip.


Legend of Galactic Heroes is very relevant and timeless. Especially the 80's OVA's

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling September 10, 2020 8:59 AM  

@95 John Rockwell:

Legend of Galactic Heroes is very relevant and timeless. Especially the 80's OVA's

With "a cast of thousands", one side explicitly modeled on the old German Empire, also makes it easy to accept "normal" German names like Rittenhouse, even has a particularly important infantry unit name Rosen Ritter (Rose Knights). The '80s OVAs are also the best example I've ever seen of trying to convey multiple space fleets with nominal strengths of 10,000 ships fighting each other.

But the political and social lessons in it...; as you say, very relevant and timeless. Note also the original novels have been translated and published in English by VIZ, from the peek I took at one, they go even more into these themes, since they can get you directly into the heads of the characters, or at least do so for Yang's.

Blogger Bezzle September 10, 2020 11:47 AM  

@90. Some random guy September 09, 2020 5:01 PM
...like that Tollywood clip.

It's what's possible in an unapologetically heterosexual dimorphic culture that celebrates the human form.

Blogger tdcommenter September 10, 2020 12:53 PM  

More Mulan bad news for Devil Mouse.

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/world/2020/09/10/china-bars-media-coverage-of-disneys-mulan-after-xinjiang-backlash/

Blogger John Rockwell September 11, 2020 1:50 AM  

ThatWouldBeTelling wrote:@95 John Rockwell:

Legend of Galactic Heroes is very relevant and timeless. Especially the 80's OVA's

With "a cast of thousands", one side explicitly modeled on the old German Empire, also makes it easy to accept "normal" German names like Rittenhouse, even has a particularly important infantry unit name Rosen Ritter (Rose Knights). The '80s OVAs are also the best example I've ever seen of trying to convey multiple space fleets with nominal strengths of 10,000 ships fighting each other.

But the political and social lessons in it...; as you say, very relevant and timeless. Note also the original novels have been translated and published in English by VIZ, from the peek I took at one, they go even more into these themes, since they can get you directly into the heads of the characters, or at least do so for Yang's.


That's good to hear.

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