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Tuesday, October 06, 2020

Another church damns itself

Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox, this is what happens when you allow the wolves to infiltrate the church leadership.
A shocking new inquiry has found that, not only did the Church of England forgive some 400 pedophiles, but it allowed them to continue working with children. The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) found that between 1940 and 2018, some 390 people employed by the church, as clergymen or in trusted positions, were convicted of child sex abuse.

They were ‘forgiven’ for their crimes by the church and allowed to continue their duties, often in close proximity to children, the IICSA found.

“The culture of the Church of England facilitated it becoming a place where abusers could hide,” the report reads. The inquiry found the church repeatedly failed to respond in a consistent manner to victims and survivors of abuse, compounding their trauma over a period of decades.
Never continue to attend any church that "forgives" the moral failings of its leaders. The only correct response to a pastor, a priest, a deacon, or an elder publicly wailing about "sinning against my God" is: "you're defrocked and you're fired."

Penitent men should be forgiven. Fallen leaders must be replaced, whether they repent or not.

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98 Comments:

Blogger doctrev October 06, 2020 11:41 AM  

People will ask, "but what's a priest to do when he's defrocked? Dig ditches?"

YES, ABSOLUTELY. Anything's more honorable than shaming your Church by leading it long after you've been proven manifestly unfit for the task. And it's ludicrously kind compared to what Christians would historically do to someone who abused young boys, which is burn them at the stake (as the merciful option). Even Kingdom Come: Deliverance acknowledges that a homosexual affair in a monastery would be a grievous scandal for the monastery itself, never mind the people involved.

Blogger Mirko i Slavko October 06, 2020 11:53 AM  

"Forgiving" and hiding pedophilia should be a crime, like driving a hitman after a murder is a crime.

Capital punishment is preferable from societal perspective even if innocent people are murdered from time to time. It is very hard for your pedo buddies to buy you a "get out of jail" card after you have been hanged.

Blogger Silent Draco October 06, 2020 12:00 PM  

Replacing fallen leaders is a non- negotiable part of their penance.

Blogger tuberman October 06, 2020 12:04 PM  

If one assumes what went on in Canada's native American schools is true (and I pretty much do), then the Church of England is complicit in Crimes Against Humanity. They did it for the Royals though, and not just the Windsor's, but also several other European Royal Families, with the Dutch Royalty being the worst of the lot. These schools were Run by the Church of England, and 50,000 children were murdered...mass graves on the school grounds, and all covered over by MSM after it came out.

Then we have the Rotherham Rape scandal's. Does anyone believe that the Church was not involved in letting this happen?

Blogger Barbarossa October 06, 2020 12:04 PM  

You know, it's beginning to look like access to children is a fringe benefit for these people. And the sin isn't in molesting the children but in getting caught.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 October 06, 2020 12:04 PM  

Notice how the Archbishop of Canterbury is more concerned with racism than pedophilia.

Blogger BassmanCO October 06, 2020 12:16 PM  

The main reason I left the Catholic church is because of how they covered up the pedo priests. They are supposed to be men of God. At the very least they should have handed the priests over to the proper authorities. Instead they treated it as a Boys club.

Blogger Darayvus October 06, 2020 12:19 PM  

This Anglican church was founded by a sexual predator.

Blogger RandyB October 06, 2020 12:20 PM  

They were also the first Christian church to drop their ban on birth control. This occurred roughly 20 years prior to the beginning of the time period covered by the inquiry.

Blogger Twisted Root October 06, 2020 12:31 PM  

Many organisations have been condemned as institutionally racist. To my knowledge not one has ever been condemned as institutionally paedophilic.

Blogger Phelps October 06, 2020 12:35 PM  

Forgiveness means that your sins are not charged against you for damnation. It doesn't mean that you go right back to temptations that led to your sin to start with. Go dig ditches, you are not truly called to the ministry.

Blogger Zach October 06, 2020 12:35 PM  

It's as if the CoE bishops don't believe the Faith.

Quelle surprise.

Of course, what they do and will do more is to load up layers of background checks and paperwork onto ordinary parish volunteers, without reforming themselves.

Blogger Matt Robison October 06, 2020 12:40 PM  

Ugh. A truly repentant pedophile will 100% understand and go along with any precautions a church wants to take. I've seen them only allowed to sit in the back, escorted by at least one other person at all times. Being around children always prohibited.

And despite all of that, they are thankful for the chance of fellowship and worship. Anyone who is truly repentant will realize that sometimes you have to live with the consequences of your sins for a long time.

Blogger Doom October 06, 2020 12:43 PM  

Not just pedophiles, homosexuals too. Either should be all that is needed to remove said church leader. If these things are even suspected, during formation, they should be handed their travel papers and prayers for enlightenment. And a mark, by their name, for all other clergy and such... to keep them away from children, and any other vulnerable types.

Blogger Cy True October 06, 2020 12:45 PM  

This is why your family comes before the church. Guard your children and watch them like a hawk.

Blogger Viking October 06, 2020 12:52 PM  

Forgive them if you think they are sincere but then laicize them and send them to a monastery to pray for the rest of their life. A very remote monastery.

Blogger Ska_Boss October 06, 2020 12:54 PM  

I don't get why people continually seek the advice of flawed men over going straight to God.

Blogger Azimus October 06, 2020 12:59 PM  

Step 1: You burned down my business in your antifa tantrum
Step 2: You owe me a business + restitution
Step 3: I forgive you - you no longer owe me a business + restitution
Step 4: That doesn't mean you ever come in my business again.

When did "forgive" become synonymous with "act like nothing ever happened"?

Blogger boron October 06, 2020 1:01 PM  

"Hate the sin, not the sinner."
Unfortunately many of these sinners no longer believe in G-d and their positions in the churches is just another job to them.
Some use their position for paedophilia,
some for adultery; both crimes against the community as well as G-d.

Blogger borsabil October 06, 2020 1:03 PM  

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and guess that the pedastry was confined to post adolescent boys. The actual problem is the admission of homosexual men into the priesthood. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles, but a disproportionate number are. It got to the stage in some Catholic diocese that if you were not a practicing homo you would not be allowed admission into the Seminary.

Similarly children living in homes with men who are not their biological father will be ten to a hundred times more likely to be sexually abused.

Christian sexual morality is time tested to protect the innocent. We abandon it and the results are inevitable.

Blogger BastionHarm October 06, 2020 1:05 PM  

They will protect pedophiles...but they will have no qualms about defrocking and firing a priest who makes some "edgy" and "insensitive" remarks (and, even Scripture based!) about homosexuals, Muslims, Jews, BLM, etc...

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 06, 2020 1:08 PM  

These cases have never made sense to me outside of demonic forces or excessive corruption. People will say "oh it's 80 years, so that's 5 a year for a whole country. No other org with children will have a better record than that..." or they'll say "but times were different, it was so icky even mentioning it was looked down upon."

All of this overlooks the grown men in the past that would literally kill you if you touched their kid and the glaring absurdity of being a man of God in a position of power continuing on after doing such an offense. You simply cannot have any authority in the moral realm if you are actively raping kids or covering for them.

Especially when there is only one true solution. Fire and prosecute the offender, BUT like all sinners welcome them to go back into the congregation (presumably at another church) under watchful eyes. As Christians we are called to forgive and God's mercy is limitless as is His corrective power. Where else can a pedo possibly change his life if not in a house of God? But never again can that person be in a position to morally guide a flock.

I am a proud Catholic, but an increasingly mournful one for past clarity and forthrightness. Yet even I cannot excuse the damage done by potentially centuries of abuse. We can however fix this, but only with absolute zero tolerance and a weeding out in seminary of closeted pedos and gays hiding from their degeneracy.

Most of my fellow tradCaths dismiss married priests, but it is truly the only way in this disturbed culture to fix this. Right now it is easy to twist weak men in a confined space with entrenched deviants in control of seminaries. Add in a ton of married dads or burly former demo contractors like me with kids and we would fix the issue quickly. I'm sure the bishops would rather forgive me for mangling some degenerates face, then face the public's wrath for yet another pedo scandal.

Blogger Redbeard October 06, 2020 1:13 PM  

In other news, on the same page. Pedophilia is fine, racism bad.

ALSO ON RT.COM
'I'm ashamed of our history': Church of England is 'still deeply institutionally racist' says Archbishop of Canterbury

Blogger ar10308 October 06, 2020 1:16 PM  

A few years after I moved away from the town, the small church (~60 members) I was a member of disintegrated. I later found out that the pastor had expressed his attraction towards one of the wives of church. This was reported and exposed to the Elders, who acted quickly in calling for his admission of the expressed attraction and resignation. Unfortunately, the church ended up dissolving a week or 2 later due to the leadership vacuum that followed his removal.

They did the right thing in protecting their marriages from a potential predator. Unfortunately, it cost them their church organization, which is a small price to pay compared to the much larger one should the pastor had been permitted to stay as the leader of that flock.

Church organizations are much more easily replaced than marriage sanctity, or in the Church of England's case the innocence of young boys and children.

Blogger Beau October 06, 2020 1:17 PM  

When a member of your congregation comes to you to speak with reluctance, difficulty, embarrassment, or shame, you stop, immediately, and give them your full undivided attention, leaving the door open a crack.

Listen, try to catch every nuance of inflection, tone, and body language. Ask for permission to write down their account. Don't interrupt, but guide them to remember and tell the full story. Do not insert your own reactions, however outraged you may be. At the conclusion, go over the statement with them. Ask if this statement is exactly what they want to say in their own words. If not, change it until they are satisfied this is what they say. Have them sign it.

Ask them if they want to listen in while you report it. If no, submit the statement immediately after they leave. If yes, make the call to the authority designated to receive such calls, then send the statement while the person is present - so they know you listened, took them seriously, and acted.

I have seen this both ways, false allegations and otherwise. The process is the same, "We investigate everything, all the way down to the bottom." Remember, reporting requirements exist for perhaps organizational but certainly civil authorities. Do your due diligence.

As a shepherd, you owe your Master the duty of protecting His flock. There many be moments of revulsion, anger, grief, and every other emotion under the sun as you expose the truth. You may wish privately you were anywhere else on the planet than this. Remember though, your Master gave you a shepherd's staff for a reason, I pray you do not let Him nor his flock down.

Blogger sammibandit October 06, 2020 1:18 PM  

When did "forgive" become synonymous with "act like nothing ever happened"?

I figure around the time sentimentality became entwined with brutality. By Theodore Dalrymple's reckoning that's around the death of Princess Diana. In one of his books he talked about how Brits were throwing toys from the pram over the Queen not lowering the flag following Diana's killing, then acting more violent as soon as she did lower the flag. Sentimentality over the death plus brutality over the Queen's response.

The same thing is playing out with George Floyd and even Trump getting the Chinese flu.

What you're seeing regarding your question is the sentimentality part of the paradox. Brutality is letting them back in leadership and not redressing the victims.

Blogger Emil October 06, 2020 1:25 PM  

People keep themselves in states of willful ignorance, a kind of self enforced naivete which they try to disguise as "Jesus love" when really it's weakness and fear of God.

Blogger Servant October 06, 2020 1:26 PM  

So I feel like some of you are missing the point.

It is the organization, not the priests. We'll consider the catholic Church. Well documented infiltration by sodomites in their seminaries. This is a documented Promethean strategy. They have the most concentration because of largeness and centralization of their power. Also a political decision to enforce chastity weeds out actual men. Over a process of years these men raise in power and cover up the crimes of their associates. There is nothing about repentance here.

It takes a few more years but the church of England is exposed. This is my shocked face.

Go into any church of churchianity. The worship leader (frequently a pastor/graduate of seminary) or the youth leader will most likely be a sod. My experience with this is limited to the PCA so maybe your mileage will vary.

Tangentially but maybe more central to the point, if your church has a 501c3 they have already told the government they will not say certain things from the pulpit in exchange for lucre. This is not leadership.

Blogger cecilhenry October 06, 2020 1:32 PM  

Churchianity is poison.... QED

The Church leadership not only often hostile to its followers, but actively lie and distort their agenda to keep people from objecting.

The Presbyterian Church in Canada is trying to ordain homosexuals and support homosexual marriages. The minister has been completely silent on this issue until the very last moment before the vote was about to occur to enact it as national church policy.

You could see this coming for TWENTY years, but most church members don't see it.

People were shocked and asked 'where is this coming from so suddenly'.... I watched as the minister... who implicitly preaches this from the pulpit for years.. act completely surprised and just wants to be 'sensitive' to all perspectives.

You can hear the SJW rhetoric, and the seminaries where 'social justice' is preached, in every sermon, but most of the flock remains very blind.


"The Sword of Christ: Christianity from the Right, or, the Christian Question"

by Corey Giles is a very good book which attempts to address this issue--- and the poisonous effect it is having on the West.

Highly recommended-- we need more of this engagement to root out this problem from the Church.

Blogger Solon October 06, 2020 1:32 PM  

@18
I've long argued with people who try the old "if you're a Christian, you have to forgive me if I've wronged you and sincerely ask for forgiveness!"

That is correct. However, forgiveness and penance are two totally separate things. I can forgive you in my heart for stealing from me, but that doesnt mean I have to let you keep the property you stole from me, or let you return it without reparations for the damages, OR continue to associate with you.

Forgiveness in this example means nothing more or less than letting go of hatred in my heart toward you. But the price must still be paid for your actions, no matter your justifications for it.

The truly repentant man doesnt get a say in the kind of penance he pays. The truly Godly man knows this and thus strives to avoid a situation in which he might be burdened with a penance that is too much to bear. In other words: "can't do the time, don't do the crime."

Blogger Balkan Yankee October 06, 2020 1:36 PM  

"Hate the sin, but not the sinner" doesn't mean we are required to trust the sinner.

Blogger Doktor Jeep October 06, 2020 1:38 PM  

Defrocked?
Executed is better. It's not weakness through they do these acts.

Blogger Akulkis October 06, 2020 1:40 PM  

>> When did "forgive" become synonymous with "act like nothing ever happened"?

When "forgive and FORGET" became a stock phrase.
It's ridiculous on the face of it.

Blogger Hank Archer October 06, 2020 1:49 PM  

Not too surprising considering that the CoE was founded to facilitate adultery.
Took 500 years for the rot to destroy all remnants of Christianity.

Blogger Hammerli 280 October 06, 2020 1:53 PM  

I contrast this to the Profumo Affair. John Profumo got caught in a sex scandal. Resigned from the British Parliment, spent the rest of his life doing charitable works. Well out of the public eye, for several decades.

This is what a truly penitent man does.

Blogger NewTunesForOldLogos October 06, 2020 1:54 PM  

Catholics are (supposed to be) taught to avoid the near occasion of sin. Even if they felt that they shouldn’t turn them in to the secular authorities, they should have, to save their souls, removed them from occasions where they would be tempted to sin. You wouldn’t have someone who is given to drunken violence work in a distillery, you shouldn’t have a pedophile working with children.

Blogger Joe Smith October 06, 2020 2:08 PM  

When did "forgive" become synonymous with "act like nothing ever happened"?

When the powers that be grabbled the word in order to co-opt Christian minds. Also, the death penalty for pedophiles, particularly ones in such positions of authority, badly needs to come in to style. Forgive the penitent priest, give him his last rites, and then hang him from a tree until dead.

Blogger Ranger October 06, 2020 2:14 PM  

There have been good historical reasons why the Church does not want its priests to be judged by the State. But what this means has been corrupted; in these cases, the Church has the RESPONSIBILITY to judge the accused and, if found guilty, either impose a strict canonical penalty or, if the crime is too horrible, deliver the culprits to the State for punishment.
The end of this very reasonable and working arrangement is one more thing we can lay at the door of the French Revolution.

Blogger The War for the West October 06, 2020 2:15 PM  

Would like more detail. The supposed pedophilia scandal in the U.S. was nothing of the sort. They were homosexual epheobophilia (the desire to have sex with a sexually mature but not legal aged person, pedophilia is the attraction to children who aren't sexually mature)type sexual assaults. In fact, in 90% of the cases it was gay men grooming and engaging in ongoing affairs with teen boys in their charge.

This is more depraved in a very real sense. A pedophile has a fried circuit in his brain that fires off arousal from pre-pubescent children. Of course they have a choice to not act on such an impulse but their arousal is autonomic.

The gay priests in the U.S. were predators operating in a pattern of exploiting sexually mature boys they had unique trusted access to. They were no more driven to be attracted to these young men than any heterosexual who finds a 16yo female hottie attractive for a moment. It's what you do with that arousal that matters, and that's a moral issues. That's real moral failing that can't be blamed on mental illness.

Just sayin'.

Blogger Dos Voltz October 06, 2020 2:15 PM  

Dang these churches are getting almost as bad as the public schools. And the media. And sports. And scouting. It's almost like some filthy evil worldwide cabal has infiltrated EVERY ONE of our once-trusted Christian institutions and made it so that our children aren't safe - ANYWHERE.

But that would be crazy. What kind of monster would work night and day to turn our kids into blobs of unthinking flesh that hate themselves and their heritage?

I'll have to get to work on another theory.

Anonymous Anonymous October 06, 2020 2:20 PM  

orthodox priests are married men, catholic priests are bachelors, guess which group is gonna attract more pedos

Blogger RedJack October 06, 2020 2:21 PM  

Construction seems to be where a lot of former LCMS padtors go.

Perhaps a dedicated class of full time ecclesiastical workers is dangerous to the sheep

Blogger Robert Browning October 06, 2020 2:29 PM  

You can boil Christianity down to one simple truth, a Christian defends the weak and the innocent. Child predators or predators of any kind are the enemies of Christ and must be fought tooth and nail.

Blogger Robert What? October 06, 2020 2:34 PM  

Why use the Satanic, Tamudic G-d? It's God, not G-d.

Blogger Autarky Bear October 06, 2020 2:36 PM  

Most Christian Church's are so cucked they won't stand up for anything they supposedly believe. They become nothing but tax shelters at the end of the day.

Blogger The Homeless IT Guy October 06, 2020 2:37 PM  

Ambush predators usually remain motionless (sometimes hidden) and wait for prey to come within ambush distance before pouncing. Ambush predators are often camouflaged, and may be solitary. Many ambush predators actively attract their prey towards them before ambushing them. This strategy is called aggressive mimicry. In social predation, a group of predators cooperates to kill prey. This makes it possible to kill creatures larger than those they could overpower singly......... TL:DR predator's tend to congregate where they have the easiest access to prey and where they can remain hidden and sheltered. As an another aside we humans would be wise to mimic and listen to our canid best friends for they seem to have an innate ability to sniff out nephium / chomo types and know exactly what should be done with such threats to the pack.....

Blogger Beau October 06, 2020 2:40 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Chill Penguin October 06, 2020 2:44 PM  

1 Cor 5
> 9I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
1 Tim 3
> 1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
> 8Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Churches are commanded to expel even ordinary fornicators and certainly to not have them on staff.
Also, people think the Old Testament criminal laws don't expressly call out rape in all cases and therefore most rape is allowed. They look at
> 23If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
> 25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.
and think the Bible says that only rapists of betrothed women are executed. The 'because she cried not' implies that the rapist would have been executed if she had screamed, which implies that that's the usual thing to do for forcible rape regardless of whether she's betrothed.

Blogger liberranter October 06, 2020 2:49 PM  

It's been obvious for decades, if not most of the last century, but does anyone out there still truly believe that the CoE is anything other than a state-sanctioned humanist cult? As more than a few of its adherents will blasphemously assert, "God is an Englishman," with all the sordid attributes such a tag implies.

Blogger kmadison76 October 06, 2020 2:53 PM  

The Episcopal church in America is unrecognizable today from it's past. I lived in the south in my younger years and have fond memories of St. Peter and St. Paul Church in Roswell, GA. My dad wore a suit in and tie every Sunday and we wore our Sunday best. The church directory all showed large homogenous families. Occupations were listed and literally every woman was a housewife and declared as such in the directory - no shame. Every Episcopal church where I live now has a woman priest. We didn't realize how good we had it when we were young.

Blogger OneWingedShark October 06, 2020 2:57 PM  

Azimus wrote:When did "forgive" become synonymous with "act like nothing ever happened"?
When evil people got caught.
I honestly think that the shift really started gaining traction around the time Bill Clinton got caught with Lewinsky; there's also a chapter in A Generation of Sociopaths that details how the Boomer's narcissisms were indulged by the church instead of punished (e.g. divorce, poor-parenting, etc), and likely that has a huge impact as well.

Blogger Gregory the Tall October 06, 2020 3:10 PM  

The monarch (and certainly not God) is the supreme governor of the CoE as Prince Andrew of Lolita Express fame would gladly confirm.

Blogger Mustang Mike October 06, 2020 3:23 PM  

These people are reprobates. God has given them over to vile and unnatural affections. They've rejected God and now God has rejected them. They are enemies of God and no longer deserve forgiveness. God said to love your enemies but He never said to live His enemies

Blogger Emmanuel October 06, 2020 3:40 PM  

The Church of England ? What a surprise. I am sure I will be even more surprise the next time Bruce Wayne reveals his secret identity.

Blogger Aeroschmidt October 06, 2020 4:09 PM  

God calls men to spread the gospel. Faith comes through hearing.

Blogger Yossarian October 06, 2020 4:10 PM  

How many more so called "Civic Nationalists" have to be exposed until the coin drops?
How many more so called "Christian Churches" have to be exposed until the coin drops?

Blogger Gen. Kong October 06, 2020 4:22 PM  

It's getting to be quite a list, though the Anglicans have been nothing more than a Witches' coven for quite a while now. As someone noted above, the church was founded by what amounts to a sexual predator. Rotten from the foundation, despite some good men here and there (C.S. Lewis was an Anglican).

The main reason I left the Catholic church is because of how they covered up the pedo priests. They are supposed to be men of God. At the very least they should have handed the priests over to the proper authorities. Instead they treated it as a Boys club.

That's another case where the rot came in and grew like a cancer until it changed the organization into something quite monstrous. Take the case of Bernard Francis Law (who is only one example of a number of similar cases which could be cited).

You'll note that he was made a Cardinal by none other than John Paul II. Note also the utter failure of the Vatican to deal with his criminal actions while Cardinal in Boston. A real pope would have appointed him as a missionary to Saudi Arabia with no security. Instead he was brought to Italy where the rent-boys are plentiful to spend his final days in something akin to the Pleasure Dome of the Kubla Khan. Not being a Catholic, I really don't have a dog in this fight but the Kurgan's argument (there has not been a legitimate pope since 1958) looks stronger every day. Vatican II was a kill-shot.

The Catholics are by no means the only branch of Christianity to suffer this. Cyrus Scofield's utterly heretical bible commentaries have wrought massive destruction to Protestantism, especially in the Anglosphere.

Blogger Chill Penguin October 06, 2020 4:42 PM  

@53 important point
> 19Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. 20For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. 21Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. -- Ps 139
a lot of people in the Bible do a lot of wicked things and then get saved, Paul participated in stoning Stephen. False prophets should consider Heb 6
> 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
also Matt 23 isn't just about Talmudists Jesus argued with but these modern Talmudists who by their tradition make the word of God of none effect
> 15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Blogger The World War II Fanatic October 06, 2020 4:44 PM  

https://theconversation.com/will-german-americans-again-put-donald-trump-over-the-top-in-the-presidential-election-146283

Blogger DourCdn October 06, 2020 4:46 PM  

In the secular realm, schools and sports seem to be ripe for exploitation.

Blogger Avalanche October 06, 2020 4:59 PM  

@47 "Do not insert your own reactions, however outraged you may be. At the conclusion, go over the statement with them."

I wasn't going to answer your comment Beau, but since you posted it twice...

Did you do this with Owen Benjamin? I'm not a Bear and I don't watch Owen's streams, but I read your vitriolic castigation of Owen on SG. That led me to go see what THAT was about, because your fury and seeming hatred were quite surprising. If the video you were railing against was a concatenation of edited bits and pieces by his enemies to make Owen appear horrible, then perhaps investigation of Owen's ranting all the way to the bottom before yelling that everyone should stay away from him forever more the better path; as it is your suggested step was the best course?

I hope you're feeling better.

Blogger DourCdn October 06, 2020 4:59 PM  

No one wants to be judged by yhe state, especially not in the USA, look at he absurd travesty that is the Gen. Flynn case.

Blogger tuberman October 06, 2020 5:04 PM  

@39

"Would like more detail. The supposed pedophilia scandal in the U.S. was nothing of the sort. They were homosexual epheobophilia (the desire to have sex with a sexually mature but not legal aged person, pedophilia is the attraction to children who aren't sexually mature)type sexual assaults. In fact, in 90% of the cases it was gay men grooming and engaging in ongoing affairs with teen boys in their charge."

Define better what you are talking about. If you're talking about the Catholic Priest issues, then you're close to correct, although it also included many boys younger than teens. If you're talking about the Church of England issues, you're clueless. And if you're discussing general pedo behavior in the USA, then Haiti will reveal your ignorance.

Pizza-Gate was real, and Pizza-Gate was never about teen-age boys. It was about much younger children, and even babies.

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 06, 2020 5:11 PM  

Yep. The Blah blah "he who casts the first stone..." types love throwing this in Christian faces as some sort of do anything you want thing.

People ALWAYS forget the "go and sin no more" part.

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 06, 2020 5:11 PM  

Yep

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 06, 2020 5:14 PM  

That was probably the original intent. In the 50s and through the 70s they would remove a priest to a monastery or seclusion. Thinking this would solve it and that hardened Catholic parents would forgive and move on, they would reshuffle them to other parishes. The problem is that eventually the celibacy requirement in this modern culture led to less and less good men joining and more esoteric weirdos or men running from something.

It became a club at some places. And corruption is the gravest of sin.

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 06, 2020 5:18 PM  

From defender of the faith, to heretic in one generation, so England goes into this new millenium as an almost entirely atheistic state where not infested with infidel moslems.

There is a reason heretics were burned for so long and it's not just as simple to dismiss as a Monty Python sketch.

Blogger Outis October 06, 2020 5:20 PM  

In the 'old' days I despaired with every new horrific revelation. Gradually, however, as the Church shrinks to the size of a mustard seed and 'the 300' emerge, I begin to take heart that a glorious outcome awaits us.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash October 06, 2020 5:31 PM  

The Episcopal church had the opportunity to right itself all through the early sixties, with the various heresy charges against California bishop Pike.
No matter how egregioys his heresy, eventually denying both the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, no matter how dissolute his life, including presiding at the funeral of the live-in girlfriend he drove to suicide, no matter his dabbling in the occult and necromancy, the Episcopal Church adjudged it harmful to themselves to bring formal charges or discipline him in any way.

Blogger tublecane October 06, 2020 6:12 PM  

@Akulkis- Could be wrong, but I think that phrase is like 500 years old. There’s nothing wrong with forgiving and forgetting. I’m sure you’ve done so over the course of your life. Everyone does. Certainly the concept is not ridiculous on its face.

The problem would be thinking you must forget whensoever you forgive. That is ridiculous. No one hardly thinks of it that way, if they give it more than a couple second’s consideration.

It works more like the Biblical admonition: “let the dead bury their dead.” Or the popular “let bygones be bygone.” Which doesn’t mean that one never bring up the past.

Blogger Matt October 06, 2020 6:34 PM  

Speaking of holding people accountable for abuse of children:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/netflix-indicted-over-lewd-visual-material-depicting-child-cuties

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2020 7:12 PM  

Colonel Blimp wrote:Most of my fellow tradCaths dismiss married priests, but it is truly the only way in this disturbed culture to fix this.
It's a position of power, and will always attract deviants, but allowing, or better yet requiring marriage would attract a better sort of deviant.
Colonel Blimp wrote:I'm sure the bishops would rather forgive me for mangling some degenerates face, then face the public's wrath for yet another pedo scandal.
If the bishop is another degenerate, or the mangled degenerate himself, maybe not.

Blogger MidnightSun October 06, 2020 7:19 PM  

About the time immigrants started pouring into the country I noticed many of the Catholic churches in the area were being sold off to pay the victims of sexual abuse cases, to mostly mid eastern folk where they were then turned into mosques or 'cultural centers.' Obviously the churches have been converged by the same people who are pro immigration, pro abortion, pro LGBT. In other words globalists had taken over the Vatican decades ago to where today we see Mr Jeffrey Sachs and the Pope publicly rubbing elbows on a regular basis.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 06, 2020 7:21 PM  

Hank Archer wrote:Not too surprising considering that the CoE was founded to facilitate adultery.
It's just the Roman Church with a different pope.
Hank Archer wrote:Took 500 years for the rot to destroy all remnants of Christianity.
Not clear whether you mean the rot that led King Henry to dump Rome, or the equally bad rot in Henry's side of that schism. Either way, you're talking nonsense. God's church and God's remnant are doing just fine.

If your denomination is apostate, either fix it or get out of it.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2020 7:47 PM  

@33 Akulkis re forgive and forget,

Im sort of inclined to the opposite, forget but not necessarily forgive, of that makes any sense.
Im willing to drop it and move on, but not retroactively say what you did was no big deal and no harm no foul.

Blogger Newscaper312 October 06, 2020 7:52 PM  

@45
Many of them tax deductible daycares and health clubs too. With a prayer tossed in the mix hear or there.

Blogger Beau October 06, 2020 7:59 PM  

@61 Avalanche

No. I sumply posted it twice by mistake. I didn't think it posted, so after waiting awhile for moderation I posted again because I needed to go run some errands.

The instances referenced in my comments occurred years ago.

Regarding my recent comment posted on SG, without variation, animus, or ill will I do indeed extend my deepest condolences. Vitriol? Not hardly, not at all.

Blogger Beau October 06, 2020 8:13 PM  

@61 Avalanche

Yelling? You really think so? No, condolences, as twice stated.

Blogger Reader October 06, 2020 8:14 PM  

Rather than forgiveness, Jesus had an alternative remedy for pedophiles. It involved a millstone and the sea. Those who would forgive pedophiles and allow them the freedom to continue to prey on children are doing the will of Satan, not God. It is black and white. Never permit anyone to tell you otherwise.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica October 06, 2020 8:24 PM  

Oh come on. The Anglican church recognized the first lesbian marriage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Lister#/media/File:Anne_Lister_plaque.jpg

(The funny thing is, the first commemorative plaque was deemed not woke enough, so they had to replace it with one that was woker. When this plaque gets deemed no longer woke enough, look for it to be replaced with a plaque that has neon lighting and a TV broadcasting the Ellen Degeneres show 24/7.)

Blogger Shane Bradman October 06, 2020 8:47 PM  

Bassman, what learned in Melbourne was that the proper authorities also covered up the child abuse. The police and the child molesters are both in on it. The schools as well. This isn't just priests being evil, there's a lot of evil everywhere.

Blogger Shane Bradman October 06, 2020 8:48 PM  

Ska_ Boss there is an understanding that we don't have all the answers, so we ask someone who has more experience than we do.

Blogger The Last Roman October 06, 2020 8:51 PM  

No wonder so many Brits appear gay.

Blogger Ron Tomlinson October 06, 2020 9:03 PM  

@43. Robert Browning

>You can boil Christianity down to one simple truth, a Christian defends the weak and the innocent.

Perhaps we should confine ourselves to defending the innocent since it is the principle of defending the weak that has given rise to victim culture.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 06, 2020 10:39 PM  

The numbers alone- a pedophile, in one study I read a while ago, was responsible for between 100 and 1000 molested children. The scale of depravity is horrifying.

Now add, pedos go for the same sort that everyone loves- the shiny, the bright, the charismatic. Consider, if you will, Milo Ianopolis (?) or the charismatic atheists who all have mentioned being molested while in the hands of a priest. Those are the easy ones to find- men who lived (1) and work with words (2) and get interviewed (3). Consider the men who took their own lives in shame, men who damped their misery with drugs and alcohol. Consider the men who are now not the church's singers, artists, evangelists, missionaries.

I have had the unfortunate experience of having men tell me of their private shames. In case you were wondering, they tended to be talented, beautiful,- not, 'they have a great personality'- actual accomplishments- songs on the radio, art in galleries, that sort of thing. If you were wondering where the great artists went- they were raped. They were molested. They were preyed upon.

By choosing the corrupt, the predatory and the evil, the church has killed off its future.

Blogger John Rockwell October 07, 2020 12:50 AM  

doctrev wrote:People will ask, "but what's a priest to do when he's defrocked? Dig ditches?"

YES, ABSOLUTELY. Anything's more honorable than shaming your Church by leading it long after you've been proven manifestly unfit for the task. And it's ludicrously kind compared to what Christians would historically do to someone who abused young boys, which is burn them at the stake (as the merciful option). Even Kingdom Come: Deliverance acknowledges that a homosexual affair in a monastery would be a grievous scandal for the monastery itself, never mind the people involved.


Death Row is a mercy for all parties involved. The Repentant Sodomite gets to be free of temptation since He will be dead. And he gets to be with Jesus Christ.

And He will no longer be doing any more evil since He is dead.

Also if He isn't repentant it doesn't matter because he will not be doing any more evil either.

Blogger Terrific October 07, 2020 12:52 AM  

The thief on the cross was instantly forgiven by Christ.

He still died on the cross.

Blogger John Rockwell October 07, 2020 2:56 AM  

Ariadne Umbrella wrote:The numbers alone- a pedophile, in one study I read a while ago, was responsible for between 100 and 1000 molested children. The scale of depravity is horrifying.

Now add, pedos go for the same sort that everyone loves- the shiny, the bright, the charismatic. Consider, if you will, Milo Ianopolis (?) or the charismatic atheists who all have mentioned being molested while in the hands of a priest. Those are the easy ones to find- men who lived (1) and work with words (2) and get interviewed (3). Consider the men who took their own lives in shame, men who damped their misery with drugs and alcohol. Consider the men who are now not the church's singers, artists, evangelists, missionaries.

I have had the unfortunate experience of having men tell me of their private shames. In case you were wondering, they tended to be talented, beautiful,- not, 'they have a great personality'- actual accomplishments- songs on the radio, art in galleries, that sort of thing. If you were wondering where the great artists went- they were raped. They were molested. They were preyed upon.

By choosing the corrupt, the predatory and the evil, the church has killed off its future.


That's why I wish AID's wasn't treated. At least among the Sodomites.

PreP and other treatments has been a disaster for the West.

Blogger Colonel Blimp October 07, 2020 3:36 AM  

And became the first saint by guaranteed ticket to heaven...

Blogger Avalanche October 07, 2020 8:04 AM  

@77, @78 Vitriol? Not hardly, not at all.

Ah. This is a standing problem with 'typed' (mail, email, posted) communication. There's a decade-old book about it. I can't remember its name, but the author had studied such comms and said that even sending an email with "Please send me the notes from the meeting" is usually *received* at first glance as unfriendly and aggressive.

It's a receiver problem, not necessarily a sender problem if the sender is aware that nearly everyone perceives a negative tone in written 'speech' whether intended or not.

Still, warning everyone to shun Owen on the basis of a single video, not even his own, seemed harsh. Perhaps you did speak to him privately before your SG post and getting no acceptable response decided to warn away from him people for whom you feel some responsibility. Perhaps, before 'calling him out in public,' you also enlisted some of his Bears in ... what do they call it? Ah, an intervention ... to see WTH was going on with him.

I wouldn't have seen those attempts. As I wrote -- I don't follow Owen, don't watch much of his stuff, none in many months, so I don't know what's going on over there.

However, the Streisand effect is clearly alive and well. Thank you for your response.

Blogger Pathfinderlight October 07, 2020 8:05 AM  

When the scandal broke, lots of people asked why the RCC could allow this to happen. It was getting a lot of press because the press wanted to damage the church. They asked questions about as honestly as you'd expect today.

Leaders at the time have an interesting answer. During the 60's and 70's, they hired consulting companies to do risk assessments regarding homosexuality and other deviant behaviors. The assessments came back low. They trusted that information because of science.

Long story short, they stopped weeding out the deviants as hard, on the theory that they would be likely to come forward and be reformed. In Catholic confession, there is a general unwillingness to break confidentiality. All this caused an institutional blindness to problems until about the 1990's, when major lawsuits started piling up.

Then, the next phase of Promethian attack began. The media attacks called the Church leadership too closed off and stuck in their ways. At this point, the consulting companies were gone. The individuals whose decisions led to the situation were dead, and the only remedy was to undo policies and training based on the previous generation's Promethians' meddling while under constant media and legal attack.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 07, 2020 7:08 PM  

Can I point out the obvious: when you find a leader with such a major, obvious flaw, what you do not see is the other major flaws. They are there. You just are not aware of them yet.

Then there are the minor flaws.

400 pedophiles are responsible for how many young people being lost to the church? Then, their children, if they have them? Then their grandchildren?

Blogger Moonman's Ray-Ban Sunglasses October 07, 2020 7:42 PM  

It was only a matter of time re: the Church of England. Their head is the King of England, who has been a figurehead for how many centuries, and does not require any religious education, philosophy, logic or otherwise in matters of faith or Christian thought it seems.

In the words of Tolkien, they only way they exist is purely through hatred of Catholicism.

The Church of England were the original Churchians. They started off in evil, continued in it, and will end in it.

Blogger Moonman's Ray-Ban Sunglasses October 07, 2020 7:52 PM  

Before anyone points it out, I use the more-or-less same standard for the RCC. And I'm Catholic.

Holy Orthodoxy seems to hold all the cards in terms of legitimacy.

Also: The Lutheran Church in America has disavowed Martin Luther. So they use his name, but are they following teachings of Christ as prescribed by Martin Luther? Or did they just write him out around the margins?

Lutheranism has always seemed bizarre to me, just like Anglicanism. Spite, anger, impotent rage that Catholicism continued to exist, and more spite.

Martin Luther just seemed a angry, guilty guy, moved possibly by his intestinal distress. The guy farted a LOT, more than likely was constantly shitting himself. Probably IBS, which is enough to make anyone unhinged. Doesn't make him wrong about (((them))).

Blogger Ominous Cowherd October 07, 2020 8:27 PM  

Chip Hazard wrote:Holy Orthodoxy seems to hold all the cards in terms of legitimacy.
Jesus holds the only card that matters. You're part of His church, or part of Satan's. Put your faith in Jesus, not in any denomination.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 07, 2020 10:16 PM  

I've been rubik's cubing this thought, and I don't know quite what to do with it:

1. We know who is who in England. They know, more than anyone else, who each other is ( am I missing some whoms?) Anyway, everyone's family is known, back a thousand years or so.

2. This Cabal that everyone right seems to keep bumping into is obsessed with families, more so than individuals.

3. I can throw in my own observation that the men I've known who were raped as boys were scintillatingly talented at what they did. Beautiful, physically beautiful, charismatic, deeply damaged men.

4. Men from families.

5. So, were the pedophiles set loose to fumble around and cause as much damage as their black hearts delighted in? Or were they set, cat among the pigeons, to find particular pigeons?

Thus, possibly, wiping out particular bloodlines? Wiping out future competitors? Wiping out future inquisitors?

I ask, because of that photo of a book burning in Germany: It wasn't a general bookburning. It's always sold as anti-intellectualism, but it's a verified photo of young German men burning a twisted library of sexual misbehaviors catalogued, and monstrous surgeries. The young men are around the right age to have been subjected to the appetites of twisted men. This was a slave revolt, more or less.

I ask, again, because, can you imagine the Hitchens brothers united in love of Britain? and Christ? There are brother saints in history.

I ask, because something as simple as a frivolous pop song by Queen- the music video is all of them in drag, and it was banned in America. And the lead singer is "oh, we lost money" on it,rather than "we made a British-specific video and then a worldwide video" Videos are relatively cheap: why did they leave money on the table- most bands make most of their money in the USA: why was the USA castigated as puritan, rather than Queen called a bit bizarre? Why could they not leave America to remain American, and innocent? Why did they leave money on the table? These are money hungry men.

Why post-war? Were all the decent men killed off?

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella October 07, 2020 10:19 PM  

and, Chip, you're better off thinking the various Protestant churches as the state churches similar to orthodox state churches. No one is really interested in going outside of their own tribe, and frankly, it's always weird to outsiders, and makes perfect sense to insiders.

If it's not your tribe, it's not your problem. ML is very,very loved by Lutherans, including all of his flaws. The Queen is more believed than Christ, by Anglicans, as far as I can tell. They behave like naughty little children in life, and then expect to be buried in the churchyard after a church service, no matter what. Even Poppy (Geldof?) , the known Satanist, had a church service and burial. All her rock n roll family friends showed up in black and trailed her coffin to the churchyard.

Blogger Jack Morrow October 09, 2020 12:25 AM  

It was noted at the time of the now-forgotten Bishop Pike's death in 1969 that he was the first Episcopal bishop whose funeral was attended by three surviving wives. It's hard for an apostate church to accuse someone of heresy when it's done away with any objective standard of truth.

Advancement in the C of E hierarchy has been linked to membership in the Masonic Lodge for the last 200 years or so. Any attempts to criticize or expunge Freemasonry from the church are always torpedoed before they get to the top.

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