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Sunday, November 01, 2020

Convergence kills

 From Corporate Cancer, published in 2019:

The bright future of well-funded diversity departments and their growing cost to corporate budgets can be anticipated by looking at what some of the most converged corporations in the United States are doing. In 2015, Intel announced a $300 million commitment to diversity, pledging to spend $60 million per year by 2020 in order to establish a $300 million fund to be used by 2020 to improve the diversity of the company’s work force. This expensive program was supplemented by Intel Capital’s Diversity Initiative, which at $125 million, is “the largest venture capital resource ever created to focus on underrepresented entrepreneurs.”

So, this suggests Intel has entered Stage Five convergence, which means that it is now incapable of fulfilling its primary purpose. Which means this news will come as little surprise to those who understand the concept.

Intel contemplates outsourcing advanced production

Secretive labs and tightly guarded clean rooms in Hillsboro have long represented the leading edge of semiconductor technology. That’s where Intel crafted generations of new microprocessors, chips that led the industry for decades as engineers working at atomic dimensions invented new ways of packing more capabilities into a minute space. Those discoveries powered years of progressively faster, cheaper and more advanced computers.

And it’s there, in Hillsboro, that Intel began making these new chips at research factories tethered to its labs. Intel would then send its meticulously developed manufacturing technique to its other factories around the world where it was replicated precisely, a well-established practice called “copy exactly.”

The model led Intel to become Oregon’s largest corporate employer and one of the state’s major economic engines, convening researchers from all over the world to engineer new chips as the company spent billions of dollars on equipment to manufacture their microscopic marvels.

Now, Intel is laying the groundwork to toss the old model out the window. It is openly flirting with the notion of moving leading-edge production from Oregon to Asia and hiring one of its top rivals to make Intel’s most advanced chips.

They're not contemplating outsourcing because they're seeking better profit margins. They're contemplating it, and they're going to do it, because their repeated efforts to make the leap to the next level in chip manufacturing have consistently failed. 

But they've got diversity now, which is nice.

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66 Comments:

Blogger xavier November 01, 2020 5:51 PM  

So that explains AMD's comeback.
Looks like diversity nullified Intel's efforts for 7 nanometer chipa

Blogger crescent wrench November 01, 2020 5:57 PM  

Trump's executive order on critical race theory puts a huge wrench in these works.

Specifically he's directed AG Barr to issue directives branding woke diversity initiatives as "hostile work environment" for whites and men under title VII.

That and the cut-off of government contracts to firms that push this training should affirmatively end the process within a few years.

Blogger Canada78Bear November 01, 2020 5:58 PM  

Considering their roadmap from 10 years ago compared to what they did it is no wonder.
No doubt Intel is following the trailblazers at Blackberry for moving to all software after failing their 10nm and beyond roadmap.

As Apple has shown us the zombie corpse can continue for a while.

Blogger crescent wrench November 01, 2020 5:59 PM  

"openly flirting with the notion of moving leading-edge production from Oregon to Asia"

I think we have laws against export of cutting edge research like this to our geopolitical enemies.

Blogger Mauldication Bear November 01, 2020 6:02 PM  

I built a new PC last week. I went with Intel for my own reasons, but AMD is crushing the CPU space right now. I'm almost certain my next computer will not have an Intel chip.

Blogger Yossarian November 01, 2020 6:08 PM  

AMD might very well monopolize the CPU and GPU market in 2 years. Their whole marketing strategy boils down to: "We're the alternative to Intel and Nvidia."

Blogger Unknown November 01, 2020 6:23 PM  

Dell paid 110 Billion for 80% of VMWare. Then over the next 4 years they mismanaged it badly enough they are spinning it off for a sale.

Intel has 110,000 employees. Move 10k jobs to India and they have enough money to play their diversity games. In fact, move 20k jobs over there, and give all the senior execs a nice bonus to go along with the massive stock option boon they get.

And 10 years from now when Intel goes bankrupt, their wealth from Intel is already accumulated and they will be c-suite at a clothing or trucking company, anyway.

Blogger Jim November 01, 2020 6:34 PM  

As I recall, Intel threw in with Anita Sarkesian while AMD gave tacit support to GG. And AMD is now utterly spanking Intel's offerings and is finally competitive with Nvidia.

Blogger Moonman's Ray-Ban Sunglasses November 01, 2020 6:35 PM  

"Diversity" is a building block for all corporate agencies now. It's on the masthead, on the boxes of (unasked-for) swag, etc. etc.

No.

Blogger Don't even think bout it November 01, 2020 6:38 PM  

Brits wont be able to sing their own national anthem on armistice day
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/11/01/royal-family-and-veterans-banned-from-singing-national-anthem-on-armistice-day/

Blogger American Nationalist November 01, 2020 6:44 PM  

When technological advancement slows down and then stops, that's when you know you're in deep shit.

Literally.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 01, 2020 6:48 PM  

because their repeated efforts to make the leap to the next level in chip manufacturing have consistently failed.

As @1 xavier indicates, and is stated in the article, we're now getting official word that their attempt to move past the complete failure of what they call 10 nm you mention, to what they call 7 nm, is starting to fail hard (the article is dead wrong about 14 nm, it only had more teething problems than planned or hoped for). If this continues, and there's every reason to believe it will, that'll be two nodes, two generations, which Samsung and TSMC have successfully negotiated, with experience gained in iterations of of the first generation smoothing the way for the next.

@2 crescent wrench:

Trump's executive order on critical race theory puts a huge wrench in these works.

That's not going to stop Intel from putting Pajeets into critical roles, like the one in charge of moving to their 10 nm node. That guy got fired, I've read his only real talent was kissing up to superiors, but that worked for him for a long time. And once you get a critical mass of Indians in a company, they hire and promote only their own, which gets complicated because of their castes and 30-40,000 endogamous jatis.

@4 crescent wrench:

"openly flirting with the notion of moving leading-edge production from Oregon to Asia"

I think we have laws against export of cutting edge research like this to our geopolitical enemies.


You are very funny. It's the Asian companies, Samsung, and as mentioned in the fine article, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) that have the cutting edge. With, I grant you, a great deal of Western technology, like EUV lithography systems from the Netherlands (ASML) that use lasers from the US. Taiwan is of course not a geopolitical enemy, and TSMC and its fragile fab lines are one thing that should give the PRC/CCP pause before trying a military takeover of the island. Along with our attack subs, which haven't suffered too much from diversity or we'd have already lost one or more.

Blogger Don't even think bout it November 01, 2020 6:54 PM  

Meanwhile in Spain
https://twitter.com/BrettEverest/status/1323045507707609089

Blogger Moonman's Ray-Ban Sunglasses November 01, 2020 6:58 PM  

I wonder how diversity actually works in India.

Is it you have to hire X amount of Sikhs/Moslems/Hindus/Buddhists/Christians?

Last time I looked, Diversity + Proximity = War, and that goes double on the subcontinent.

Blogger Moonman's Ray-Ban Sunglasses November 01, 2020 7:14 PM  

@2

I'd be interested to see where this all goes, if it goes anywhere. Trump is at least getting 'equality' on the record so there's a trail and can't be argued against easily if it comes from Barr's office.

I have sued the Federal Government and won, as far as anyone can "win" at this juncture. Winning boils down to attrition, hitting them with so much paper that it busts their ass in man-hours.

Ah, yes, the man-hours. The time they could be using to dine out, relax in front of the boob tube or learn the names of their fucking children, instead you got them chasing paper, reading dismissals, and writing briefs that are largely shit.

It's not sexy, but federal lawyers ain't any good. If they were, they'd be partners in their own firm. Unfortunately, the process is also byzantine and it's rigged. Many firms are too afraid and too lazy to go to court against Uncle Sam; they fear losing, and many judges are corrupt and don't want to piss off Big Daddy dot gov even if you have them dead to rights.

Winning is more of a numbers game; what can you get in a settlement? Sometimes it's good, mostly it's breaking even.

The average White guy is not going to waste his time and money on a shit .dov job where the discrimination panels are all full up for two years to get 'justice'.

If he's got any brains he'll move right along into the private sector, make boocoup bux, go home and fuck the prom queen. And even though Diversity is rearing it's head, it's not quite as draconian in practice in the private sector.

Blogger An American November 01, 2020 7:26 PM  

Intel also sold its memory division to SK Hynix a couple weeks ago. Probably they wouldn't have done so if they thought they could keep competing.

Blogger crescent wrench November 01, 2020 7:28 PM  

@12

>Taiwan
>Asia

I suspect some DPA and arms control will be exerted by a 2nd Trump term to force those onto us shores, or simply exempt US companies that straight-up rip off the production from international IP laws.

This was how the US worked when it was behind the curve in the 19th and turn of the 20th centuries.

Blogger Tallen November 01, 2020 7:33 PM  

I think we have laws against export of cutting edge research like this to our geopolitical enemies.

The research has already been done at TSMC and Samsung, and Intel cannot keep up.

Blogger James November 01, 2020 7:36 PM  

Hopefully AMD's PSP doesn't turn out to be as backdoored as Intel's management engine. Consumers need to keep the pressure on AMD security wise since there will be little decent choice - and Apple is all on their own chips soon too.

Blogger FrankUnderwood November 01, 2020 7:37 PM  

Not only 7nm. Intels 10nm process is several years late, only for low core count and low power chips, and not that much better than their 14nm++++ process. In fact their high preformance options are still on 14nm.

Blogger Lance E November 01, 2020 7:54 PM  

Time to hoard some more AMD stock.

Blogger Newscaper312 November 01, 2020 7:56 PM  

@7 re corporate M&A stupidity, have a friend who just early retired from HP. he was there for all the years they were choking on their acquisition of Compaq, which was still choking on ITS acquisition of DEC years earlier for its server business.

Re people gloating about China's inability to master the highest high tech they steal. Not so fast, Taiwan is next door. Possibly one of the best reasons for the PRC to bring it back into the fold. Pref w destroying the golden goose.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash November 01, 2020 8:09 PM  

In 2004, Intel settled a sexual and racial discrimination case with the EEOC. Since then, they have had an implicit policy of never hiring White men. Ever. Any necessary skills that only White men could provide would be contracted.
In 15 years they have been so completely taken over by Indians that several Korean employees recently won a lawsuit against Intel for their pro-Indian discrimination, and Dalit ("untouchable" caste) Indians are pursuing a suit against Intel for hiring and caste discrimination.
The place is run by Indians. That is why it is run like an Indian corporation, with all the incompetence, dishonesty, and aggressive fakery that are the hallmarks of India.
AMD doesn't produce their own chips, they let the Koreans and Taiwanese do the work. That, alone, is why they are now ahead of Intel in the CPU race.
Intel's only possible winning play is to burn down the diversity mandates and start hiring White men, or buying some of the dozens of small-scale specialized chip foundries and silicon service businesses that have been founded by the White men that used to work at Intel. The expertise is available, but their reputation is so bad that nobody aspires to work there except 100 IQ Hindoos.

Blogger Trid November 01, 2020 8:10 PM  

I can't help but giggle. Intel wants to offshore to (probably) TMSC which is in bed with Globalfoundries (AMD) both of which have fab plants in the USA. Intel has been lagging in R&D hard the past few years, so of course that's the part of the company to keep.

How long until AMD has to give welfare to Intel to prevent a monopoly?

Blogger Teleport me off this rock November 01, 2020 8:10 PM  

Words already around among the nerd who build their own boxes: "Intel inside" means you've wasted your time and money. Of course, you'd be hard pressed to get them to admit, or even understand why, but they know the ship be sinkin'.

Blogger dds November 01, 2020 8:18 PM  


The thing is, once you start down the diversity bandwagon, how do you stop and reverse course??

YOu have to admit that your diversity agenda was wrong, that implictly at least, everything about the company is now a lie.

Moloch laughes...

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 01, 2020 8:43 PM  

@17 crescent wrench:

@12

>Taiwan
>Asia

I suspect some DPA and arms control will be exerted by a 2nd Trump term to force those onto us shores, or simply exempt US companies that straight-up rip off the production from international IP laws.

This was how the US worked when it was behind the curve in the 19th and turn of the 20th centuries.


The problem is, the US used to "work," as in making things that worked, in those periods, and for a while after. Still does in pockets here and there. Increasingly due to a million things, but in this case it's got to be more due to diversity than anything else, the US can no longer make cutting edge logic chip fabrication factories (fab lines), not Intel, not Global Foundries (at least economically). TSMC is going to try to set up a small complex in Arizona, we're no doubt having them do that for DPA reasons and the like, but:

First, you can't just "move" a fab line, they depend intensely on their buildings to keep the air very, very clean. Crating up and moving the equipment would probably result in a lot of DOA units on receipt, and lot would probably be unrepairable, or not economic to repair.

And then we get the topic of the blog posting: TSMC and Samsung's wild success (Samsung is also one of the biggest memory manufacturers in the world) is no doubt in large part due to their not believing diversity is a strength. This initial TSMC experiment will see if under current US laws and regulations they can do what no one else can anymore, get running in the USA a cutting edge logic fab line or two.

More directly answering your question, there is no IP to rip off, what TSMC and Samsung are doing is available to anyone in the US (but due to recent actions by Trump not the PRC, and boy are they unhappy about that, and I don't expect them to succeed in parallel, like they can't with jet engines for example). Intel can and has received ASML EUV lithography systems for example. They can't make them work along with everything else that's required (lots of details omitted). There's no special sauce involved, except competence. And that's what social justice convergence kills.

Blogger Unknown November 01, 2020 8:59 PM  

i wonder how widespread this is? in the UK, swab samples are being sent in to the labs with up to 5 samples in the same vial.

https://twitter.com/mariebuc43/status/1322575083743989762

therefore, 1 actual positive swab can easily result in 4 false positive swabs.

there is, of course, no reason to do this
...
except to falsify a "surge" in the infection rate.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 01, 2020 9:30 PM  

@24 Trid:

I can't help but giggle. Intel wants to offshore to (probably) TMSC which is in bed with Globalfoundries (AMD) both of which have fab plants in the USA.

First time I've heard about TSMC being in bed with GlobalFoundries, I thought the latter did much more technology licencing with Samsung. And TSMC is only just now starting the process of setting up a facility in the US, as has been discussed here and I think in the fine article.

@28 furor kek tonicus ( my feelings don't care about your facts ):


i wonder how widespread this is? in the UK, swab samples are being sent in to the labs with up to 5 samples in the same vial.

This is one of two things: a standard public health surveillance tool, or economizing on first cut clinical testing because of a lack of capacity. In the latter case, the tests can be redone individually.

Blogger RonG November 01, 2020 9:38 PM  

If there is a need to keep the air very clean, then maybe it would be better done in space where there is no air. Chips are probably the one item that it would be economical to transport to and from orbit. I'm sure Musk will have plans for that.

Blogger eclecticme November 01, 2020 9:40 PM  

US consumers do not have to buy US made goods. This is lost on liberals. Forcing fire and police depts to hire blacks is not the end of the world. Forcing companies that are in competition with Asian imports to hire blacks will put them out of business.

US consumers do not have to buy devices with Intel chips. They can buy Lenovo PCs and Samsung cell phones and TVs. Govt employees and teachers are oblivious to this.

Blogger TCO348 November 01, 2020 10:26 PM  

@26 It's almost impossible to reverse course on personnel policy. To do so you have to admit that some of the people that have joined a group are not very good. But no one wants to insult a current member of the group. So you can't admit that the policy that resulted in acquiring them was flawed.

Blogger Dole November 01, 2020 11:01 PM  

Powered by diversity... a CPU chip half as fast, but at twice the price.

Moore's law is sexist, let it be replaced by Mary's law.

Blogger thethirdcoast November 01, 2020 11:12 PM  

Newscaper312 wrote:@7
Re people gloating about China's inability to master the highest high tech they steal. Not so fast, Taiwan is next door. Possibly one of the best reasons for the PRC to bring it back into the fold. Pref w destroying the golden goose.


This is precisely why Taiwan is the most enormously strategically valuable piece of real estate in the modern world.

Sadly, at this late date, there is no way for the US to keep China out that does not involve nuclear weapons.

Blogger Unknown November 02, 2020 12:48 AM  

29. ThatWouldBeTelling November 01, 2020 9:30 PM
In the latter case, the tests can be redone individually.



if you think they're going to back known FPs out of the data set you probably also think Creepy Uncle Joe is more popular than Trump.

Blogger John Rockwell November 02, 2020 2:40 AM  

Chip Hazard wrote:I wonder how diversity actually works in India.

Is it you have to hire X amount of Sikhs/Moslems/Hindus/Buddhists/Christians?

Last time I looked, Diversity + Proximity = War, and that goes double on the subcontinent.


True. Although the historical trend of that would be that would eventually cause state unification. The more conflict the more likely there will be a winner.

I came across and interesting Book which examines with ample sources as to why Europe didn't Unify in the same manner that China unified under the Qin.

Like a kind of blood magic. The scale of bloodshed determined the extent of the Centralization of Government in the Monarch and the creation of a robust Legalist Bureaucracy:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0521525764/

One of the reviews comment on this book:

"Then an examination is conducted of Europe and why a similar situation did not arise of one state ultimately becoming strong enough to overcome the balance of power to unify Europe.

In contrast to Qin, Victoria Hui argues early European kingdoms employed self weakening methods, that may have enabled swift short term raising of military strength but at the expense of long term loss of state revenue and loss of state power to intermediaries.

The classic examples include taking out loans from merchants (often secured against future tax revenues), tax farming, and use of hired mercenaries.

It is argued these short term expedients were the easiest ways in the more heavily monetized economy of Europe at the time, as compared to the Warring States period of ancient China.

So whereas Qin and its neighbors were forced to extend the state apparatus wider and deeper to the local level to extract extra taxes and levies for its wars, in turn building up the centralized state and national armies, European rulers ended up dissipating their power through inefficient and unreliable mercenary forces, and landing themselves so deeply in debt that the ruler could become effectively hostage to others.

The second part of Victoria Hui's argument centers on the use of ruthless strategems.

While both Europe and ancient China had its fair share of intrigues, alliances, and treacheries, she argues that Europe never reached the scale of bloodshed that the Chinese Warring States reached, not just in the numbers of killed but the purpose of war.

The wars of national annihilation did not take place in Europe, and ended up in usually exchanges of territory or settling of succession issues.

Tying in to her first point, Victoria Hui argues that the self weakening expedients practiced by the monarchs of early Europe led to inconclusive wars and states weakened to the point that no major state could get sufficient advantage over another to the point of truly being able to conquer and absorb another major state. The example of Napoleon is used as an example where a European power did attempt to adopt self strengthening measures that lead to a brief period of dominance in Europe, but which ultimately could not be sustained due to the long term weaknesses inherited from the self weakening measures of pre-Revolutionary France."


Therefore the more destructive the War. The more the Centralization of Power in the State.

The greater the bloodshed the greater the potential demise of Nationalism in terms of independent rule by each Nation.

Therefore the attempts of the Church to restrain bloodshed in the Middle Ages is very praiseworthy in its protection of the Nation State and the preservation of European States with their respective Nations.

If it was allowed to get as ruthless as the bloodshed in the Orient. Europe may well have become one Empire like China by now.





Blogger SRBEL November 02, 2020 3:51 AM  

I’m the last 3 months I built myself a new PC, and new PCs for two of my friends. All of us went with AMD. Intel is dead in the water

Blogger SonyAD November 02, 2020 4:11 AM  

Intel is an awful company. It's one of the best examples of a corporation systematically engaging in anti-competitive, unfair and illegal business conduct (bribing OEMs and system integrators not to use AMD when they were faster, bribing CTOs to choose inferior Intel hardware over AMD, deceptive or outright false advertising, bribing reviewers and influencers to focus on 'real world' performance instead of performance in what accounts for 90% of CPU time, especially for prosumers and professionals, without disclosing it to the viewers) and anti-consumer practices (excessive and artificial product segmentation, huge profit margins), deliberately stifling innovation and technological advancement to maximize profits (quad cores forever) and some of the greatest feats of incompetency and rewarding it with failing upwards.

Their CPUs have also been repeatedly demonstrated to be replete with hardware vulnerabilities, possibly deliberately, as backdoors intentionally put in place for state intelligence agencies and other actors. Their CPU microcode updates and Windows code contributions to mitigate their CPUs hardware level security vulnerabilities have, at times, been shown not to actually fix the issue or, on occasion, make the vulnerability even easier to exploit. They might have also pushed for software level mitigations to be unnecessarily applied to AMD CPUs, unaffected by the hardware level security vulnerabilities the software level mitigations were designed for, as well, so that the unavoidable performance impacts these would incur would affect AMD CPUs as well and Intel would look less bad compared to AMD in benchmarks performed after software mitigation updates were applied.

On November 5th, AMD's new, Zen3 based 5000 series Desktop CPUs will be available for purchase to the public. These have as good or, in cases, better stock frequencies than Intel chips, more cores, more cache, perform more instructions per clock cycle, have excellent memory overclocking support, all support ECC (a feature Intel locks behind pay walls for artificial segmentation purposes, to maximize profit), use less to significantly less power, give off significantly less heat, come with decent box coolers, when they come with a box cooler at all, and have significantly better single threaded performance and much better multithreaded performance. They also don't have known hardware level security vulnerabilities and all support PCIe Gen 4 (Zen3 based, 3000 series Desktop CPUs do as well), when paired with a 500 series mainboard.

Anyone who still buys Intel for desktop, high end desktop or server after Zen3 is either a low information or low iq consumer (or even professional), or both. Or possibly on the take for bribe money if in charge of hardware purchases for businesses or institutions. Intel is rapidly becoming an untenable proposition in the server market due to significantly higher TCO compared to AMD, AMD being cheaper to buy and cheaper to equip for the same number of cores or the same performance, being cheaper to power and being cheaper to cool.

If ever there were truly scoundrel companies, Intel, nVidia and Apple are them. Intel has actually lost lawsuits for illegally bribing Dell not to use superior AMD CPUs back in the day.

Intel really deserves to bleed and suffer. Too bad they'll probably shed hard working talented employees and keep the ballast and the diverse wokes on. No matter, all the more worthy, qualified people for AMD to poach now that it's on its ascendancy. AMD actually rewards merit and hard work. They have a lady CEO and a lady Chief Engineer in charge of graphics because they've earned it and deserve it, being excellent at what they do. Not because muh woke virtue signalling.

Blogger Yossarian November 02, 2020 4:46 AM  

Jim wrote:AMD gave tacit support to GG.

No such thing as tacit support. Just because they're an alternative to someone you don't like doesn't mean they're also your best friend.

Blogger SonyAD November 02, 2020 5:14 AM  

Mauldication Bear wrote:I built a new PC last week. I went with Intel for my own reasons, but AMD is crushing the CPU space right now. I'm almost certain my next computer will not have an Intel chip.

I'm really curious as to what those could possibly be, given that, on November 5th, AMD will undisputedly take the single threaded performance crown from Intel as well, including in games. AVX512 support or using some Adobe or other software which can only use integrated Intel GPUs?

Blogger bramley bramley bramley November 02, 2020 5:16 AM  

But what colour will the chips be?? This is the real dilemma. And maybe they should be etched with quotes from MLK or Mandela. Those are the important questions only diversity can answer.

Blogger xavier November 02, 2020 6:11 AM  

@John Tockwell
Fascinating analysis. I'd also add the geographical factor.Europe has mountain and valley reinforcing decentralization while China is mostly prairies or relatively flat land facilitating centralized control.

Blogger SonyAD November 02, 2020 6:15 AM  

Yossarian wrote:AMD might very well monopolize the CPU and GPU market in 2 years. Their whole marketing strategy boils down to: "We're the alternative to Intel and Nvidia."

nVidia has monopolized or is close to monopolizing Desktop PC GPUs and has monopolized support from Professional and Prosumer software (most industry standard 3D path tracing software that supports GPU acceleration only does so through requiring CUDA), most likely through outright bribery or bribery in kind or developer assistance to ensure developers of such software never support OpenCL, Metal or other open compute libraries or AMD GPUs in any way.

I've never owned an nVidia GPU. My first and last non AMD CPU was an Intel Pentium 2 MMX. If AMD becomes a monopoly in both the CPU and GPU market, it will be because they've deserved it and earned it, and against all odds and unfair and often illegal business practices from both Intel and nVidia. And despite most cooomsooomers being low information nitwits which fall for Intel and nVidia's historically superior marketing, unfair and anti-competitive business practices and influencer and reviewer bribery.

nVidia is still several times larger and better staffed and equipped than AMD and their stock price is comically overvalued. Both Intel and nVidia have a long overdue and highly deserved fall, from very high places, and a long way to descend before I'll concern myself with their fate or with AMD becoming a monopoly.

If cooomsoomers had had some impulse control and did some research before buying, we wouldn't be in a situation where MSRP $1500 ($1800 or higher street price) GPU was regarded as normal or acceptable. And we wouldn't have had quad cores for 8 years from intel.

So long as people willingly pay more for less or accept milking (paying more than twice for 10% more performance simply because the 3080 was deliberately equipped with insufficient VRAM) instead of just postponing their purchases or considering alternatives, the market will continue to be broken.

Can't have markets with low iq, low information, no impulse control coomsoomers who gladly pay more for less making up the vast majority of buyers and gladly putting up with any sort of artificial milking or product segmentation and anti-competitive and unfair business practices so long as they're by their their favourite brand they have a cultish obsequiousness for.

That said, AMD CPUs and GPUs are currently overpriced as well so, if you can, just abstain from purchasing until price cuts, probably in January. Simple as. nVidia are severely overpriced, power hungry and hot because they chose to go with Samsung rather than pay more to have their chips manufactured by TSMC. Doing business by Huang's motto: 'Do as little as you can, as much as you need to.'

Companies should be rewarded with sales for putting out superior products at the same or lower prices and punished for doing the reverse. Anyone who buys Intel or nVidia over a cheaper equivalent or superior, for the price, AMD alternative without genuinely needing to buy the Intel or nVidia for whichever real reason is part of the problem and doing their part to stifle competition and slow technological progress, as much as the mismanaged corporations themselves.

Brand cults destroy markets and hold back technological innovation and progress.

Blogger thethirdcoast November 02, 2020 6:54 AM  

AMD CEO Lisa Su is very much the real deal as an engineer and businesswoman:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Su

Compare and contrast her with say, Melissa Mayer or Carly Fiorina.

Blogger VFM #7634 November 02, 2020 7:24 AM  

Wonder how many straight white men who could've made the next advances they rejected through their diversity simping.

Blogger Yossarian November 02, 2020 7:47 AM  

SonyAD wrote:nVidia has monopolized or is close to monopolizing Desktop PC GPUs and has monopolized support from Professional and Prosumer software (most industry standard 3D path tracing software that supports GPU acceleration only does so through requiring CUDA

Nvidia completely messed up their 3000 series launch. All AMD has to do is not repeat the same mistake these coming months and they will at the very least be on par with Nvidia. CUDA, RTX, GTX is just mumbo jumbo talk that ultimately meaningless when you have money to spend but nothing to spend it on.

Blogger matism November 02, 2020 7:48 AM  

Never forget that a few years ago, Intel got away with their monopolistic practices with merely a hand slap. Smart money says they also gave the FedPigs backdoors into their products, like Microsoft did a few years before. I cheer their disappearance from the marketplace, just as I would do for dear ol' Billy!!!!!!!!!

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 02, 2020 8:27 AM  

31. eclecticmeNovember 01, 2020 9:40 PM

US consumers do not have to buy devices with Intel chips. They can buy Lenovo PCs and Samsung cell phones and TVs. Govt employees and teachers are oblivious to this.

Samsung makes their own ARM mobile CPUs, but Levono like everyone else has to buy x86 chips from others. And the ARM ecosystem is now in a state of suspense while we see if any antitrust enforcers prevent nVidia from buying it. Good news for RISC-V, but it's a long ways from being competitive with ARM.

@34 thethirdcoast:

Newscaper312 wrote:

Sadly, at this late date, there is no way for the US to keep China out that does not involve nuclear weapons.


Our attack subs are chicken feed? Also depends on our ability to maintain a stealth fighter CAP over the Taiwan Strait, if the PRC is willing to try to destroy our bases in Guam and perhaps Japan, and if our ballistic missile defenses are by then good enough to stop that approach. We might also try with carriers. The PRC might not be able to take knock down the region's defenses without using nukes....

@38 SonyAD:

[Intel's] CPUs have also been repeatedly demonstrated to be replete with hardware vulnerabilities, possibly deliberately, as backdoors intentionally put in place for state intelligence agencies and other actors. Their CPU microcode updates and Windows code contributions to mitigate their CPUs hardware level security vulnerabilities have, at times, been shown not to actually fix the issue or, on occasion, make the vulnerability even easier to exploit. They might have also pushed for software level mitigations to be unnecessarily applied to AMD CPUs, unaffected by the hardware level security vulnerabilities the software level mitigations were designed for....

BZZT! You're talking about Meltdown and Spectre, and AMD somehow lucked out and avoided the former when every other company had designs that turned out to be vulnerable to it, ARM, IBM, both mainframe and POWER, SPARC, and I think MIPS. Spectre was so named because it's inherent to out-of-order (OoO) execution and everyone who has an OoO design is vulnerable to it, including AMD.

Anyone who still buys Intel for desktop, high end desktop or server after Zen3 is either a low information or low iq consumer (or even professional), or both.

How good are AMD's support chips? And to that list, you can add anyone who's followed AMD over the decades and knows their brief bursts of competence are always followed by screwing the pooch, now by buying the biggest FPGA company, akin to buying ATI back when they were failing to execute on K8 successors. It took them a solid 10 years to get their x86 act together again.

I'm still using as many as 10 years old low end Intel Xeons for workstations and servers, cheap and utterly rock solid in Supermicro motherboards.

For the rest of what you say, can AMD get large enough allocations from TSMC to make a big dent in Intel's 14++++++++++ nm CPU market share? They're bidding against Apple for example which still has quasi-infinitely more money to spend, has for example locked up the rest of TSMC's 5nm production for this calendar year.

@43 SonyAD: one thing I keep hearing is that AMD GPU device drivers suck, including the open source ones where AMD is trying to help the developers, and as of late, someone credibly claimed nVidia is one of those rare companies that gets both hardware and software. You that sure their commanding lead in non-graphical GPU computing is illegitimate? I don't know, I have no GPU compute needs, Intel on chip graphics are good enough for me, and their FOSS drivers don't suck.

Blogger bobby November 02, 2020 9:05 AM  

"The average White guy is not going to waste his time and money on a shit .dov job where the discrimination panels are all full up for two years to get 'justice'. . . .
If he's got any brains he'll move right along into the private sector, make boocoup bux, go home and fuck the prom queen"

And thus we end up with the converged foreign Deep State.

Blogger Eric Hagerstrom November 02, 2020 9:12 AM  

Taiwan is not our enemy

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 02, 2020 9:37 AM  

Two signs of social justice convergence resulting in operational problems, including one from GitHub which has miraculously avoided this for far longer than I expected:

"Google users locked out after 15 years' use":

Did not read the fine article, but the current top Hacker News comment gives a very plausible reason for it:

Mikho 16 minutes ago

Happened to me too after 10 years of Gmail use. Exactly the same story. No explanation. As I remember at that time I checked Google servers data as to uptime—the data was public, not sure about now—and it appeared that there was a serious problem with servers right before I was blocked. It looked like Google just completely lost data in some server cluster. Anyway, there was no way to get any response from Google or at least my gmail address reactivated even with data lost for me to be able to access other services that I used the email to access. I think it was Google's fault. The company lost data, but didn't want to admit it and blamed me for breaking some policy without any further details to explain absence of access to my data.


"Githubassets.com Cert Has Expired"; I suspect this administrative duty was thought to be safe enough in the hands of a dangerhair.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei November 02, 2020 10:18 AM  

A just death. They will not be missed.

Men with logos will need to rebuild. As they always must.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2020 11:22 AM  

ThatWouldBeTelling wrote:Our attack subs are chicken feed? Also depends on our ability to maintain a stealth fighter CAP over the Taiwan Strait, if the PRC is willing to try to destroy our bases in Guam and perhaps Japan, and if our ballistic missile defenses are by then good enough to stop that approach. We might also try with carriers. The PRC might not be able to take knock down the region's defenses without using nukes....
That would be expensive for the CCP to win if we fight. Would they find the price worth paying?
That would be expensive for the US to fight. Would we find the price worth paying?

If the CCP believes we won't pay the price to keep Taiwan, they will believe they can easily afford to take it.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2020 11:26 AM  

Eric Hagerstrom wrote:Taiwan is not our enemy
As long as Taiwan wants to be independent of the ChinkyCommies, they will be our ``friend,'' or at least not our enemy.

States and nations don't have friends, they have interests.

Blogger dds November 02, 2020 12:06 PM  

"I'll take fries with my convergence, thanks"....



McDonald's hires diversity chief amid corporate turmoil




https://www.barchart.com/story/news/548529/mcdonalds-hires-diversity-chief-amid-corporate-turmoil

Blogger RadixMalorum November 02, 2020 12:08 PM  

thethirdcoast wrote:Sadly, at this late date, there is no way for the US to keep China out that does not involve nuclear weapons.

China's not stupid enough to outright invade anytime soon. The costs and risks aren't worthy it.

It's biding its time waiting for the US to collapse first. At that point Taiwan will capitulate on its own due to internal subversion or be invaded. China operates on timelines of decades to a century.

Meanwhile China will continue to attempt to elite capture in Taiwan and the west to knock off balance any western attempt at supporting Taiwan.

This is Barbarian Management 101.

Blogger SciVo November 02, 2020 1:15 PM  

Speaking as someone who lived in Hillsboro for about 25 years, Intel had long ago developed a reputation for chewing up good engineers and spitting them out after a year or three, so they were going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel sooner or later.

Their personnel practices were never going to be sustainable in the long term, so to be fair, they might as well make the best of shooting themselves in the dick and signal some virtue by dressing up their desperation as "diversity" initiatives.

Blogger ThatWouldBeTelling November 02, 2020 1:54 PM  

@57 SciVo:

Speaking as someone who lived in Hillsboro for about 25 years, Intel had long ago developed a reputation for chewing up good engineers and spitting them out after a year or three, so they were going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel sooner or later.

That reminds me of one piece of wretched mismanagement that no doubt wrecked the whole company: for a very long time Intel did the stack ranking idiocy, sometimes firing more than 10% of their workforce every year. Politics is always going to be a part of a workplace because it's a collection of people, but to make it the overriding issue, well, Microsoft's use of stack ranking after Ballmer removed some vital protections Gates had put in place is probably the best documented example of this.

Apply it to Intel to imagine how they did what you mention above; for instance, some of those engineers were hired only so that their managers could fire them later. This will also harm a company through "Death by Lethal Reputation."

I also wonder about how their terrible highest level engineering management for designs played into this; see the multi-generation paranoia about being able to hook up enough memory to a system, which among many other thing resulted in two million part recalls, one of motherboards Dell was about to ship, and the Netburst (Pentium 4) "marchitecture" (boast about running your cores at the highest frequency, internally saying you'll be able to get up to 10 GHz, externally up to 5 GHz, then hitting the brick wall of the end of Dennard scaling). Intel was rotten at near the top for a long time, and now they've destroyed the single thing that let them recover from so many mistakes (besides IBM's choosing them long ago, and AMD's amazing ability to screw up more than win).

Blogger SciVo November 02, 2020 2:00 PM  

To clarify, the common local perception of Intel's management (back when it was European) was as if you took the appalling ignorance and astonishing arrogance of an FBI agent, and transplanted them directly into IT. I honestly did not expect them to last this long.

Blogger Kevin Smith November 02, 2020 3:34 PM  

@15

You may the story of Catherine Austin Fitts interesting:
https://dillonreadandco.com/

Blogger eclecticme November 02, 2020 3:54 PM  

Decades ago I worked for an industrial controls company. You needed high level sign off to put an Intel chip on any board. It was called "company I" because "Intel" was considered swearing. The issues were different back then. Industrial products require longer support than PCs. Intel followed the more massive PC market and had screwed us over. They would discontinue products they had promised to make. For that reason we used Motorola CPUs, from the 10 mhz 68000 to the 68040 when I left. This also avoided the insane memory mapping of Intel.

Blogger thethirdcoast November 02, 2020 4:08 PM  

The pros that war game a China versus US fight for Taiwan regularly project Chinese victories:

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/the-us-could-no-longer-win-a-war-against-china/news-story/6dea70747914fa1f1984b1c2bc2502d5

Blogger eclecticme November 02, 2020 4:09 PM  

@57. SciVoNovember 02, 2020 1:15 PM
Speaking as someone who lived in Hillsboro for about 25 years, Intel had long ago developed a reputation for chewing up good engineers and spitting them out after a year or three, so they were going to have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel sooner or later.


I believe Andrew Grove said that the half life (or useful life?) of a EE was five years.

Blogger tdcommenter November 02, 2020 5:12 PM  

I look forward to the complete IGG chapter in Corporate Cancer when the NDA expires.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd November 02, 2020 5:30 PM  

thethirdcoast wrote:The pros that war game a China versus US fight for Taiwan regularly project Chinese victories:
That's how you lobby for bigger budgets. That doesn't mean the projections are wrong, of course ...

Blogger John Rockwell November 02, 2020 9:37 PM  

xavier wrote:@John Tockwell

Fascinating analysis. I'd also add the geographical factor.Europe has mountain and valley reinforcing decentralization while China is mostly prairies or relatively flat land facilitating centralized control.



Chinese terrain was pretty varied too:
https://scholars-stage.blogspot.com/2013/06/geography-and-chinese-history-fractured.html

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