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Thursday, December 10, 2020

How the SBC was converged

 As usual, listening to the self-appointed experts who inevitably recommend that more resources and influence be directed their way has led to convergence, declining members, declining revenues, and organizational failure for the Southern Baptist Convention:

Most of my writing on Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) issues has focused on our diminished effectiveness in advancing the Great Commission and what we must do to become more evangelistically effective. That is what I care about most, reaching every person with the good news of Jesus Christ. Some of you have learned something of my thinking through a series of articles I wrote in February and March about “saving the SBC ship,” and giving the ship back to those who built it.

My essential contention is that the SBC took the wrong road when it adopted the Great Commission Resurgence (GCR) recommendations in 2010 and the annual reports of the SBC prove it. The last 10 years are the worst decade in the 175-year history of the SBC in terms of decline. The GCR put the SBC on a road in which the national entities gained power and financial resources, and local Associations and State Conventions lost influence and resources. The practical effect was that the SBC became more “top-down” as tens of millions of dollars were shifted to the national SBC from more local cooperative partners. Although I serve the Northwest Baptist Convention (NWBC) of churches, and stewardship of the NWBC is my primary concern, most of our churches are affiliated with the SBC and the road taken by the SBC in 2010 greatly affects our work in the Northwest. My most recent article on this, illustrated with charts, can be read at The Crisis of the Decline in the SBC.

It's the same damned - literally damned- thing every single time. FFS, when are Christians going to learn that being tolerant and nice and inclusive is quite literally the broad and easy way to Hell? If the world is celebrating you, your books are on all the bestseller lists, and the media is saying nice things about you, then you are doing Christianity wrong!

The world hates Jesus Christ. If it doesn't hate you, then you're probably not much of a Christian. The ERLC people are liars. And they serve their Father, the Devil.

Recently the ERLC was caught claiming that the SBC is a “hierarchy” and “umbrella” organization of all Southern Baptist churches and organizations in an amicus brief filed in support of NAMB.

Give them enough time and they'll be filing amicus briefs in favor of NAMBLA. 

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53 Comments:

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli December 10, 2020 10:29 AM  

You're either patristic, or you're converged.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz December 10, 2020 10:32 AM  

The Church is where the orthodoxy is.

Blogger RadixMalorum December 10, 2020 10:37 AM  

Churchians are just another sect of Satanism as far as I'm concerned.

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother December 10, 2020 10:44 AM  

GA State Senator William Ligon filing amicus brief with the Texas case against GA Governor and Secretary of State.

Preference cascade incoming.

https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1336880306679267329?s=19

Blogger Jack Morrow December 10, 2020 10:52 AM  

Tom Littleton has been chronicling the apostasy of the Southern Masonic Convention on his blog Thirty Pieces of Silver. Jon Harris does the same on his YouTube channel Conversations that Matter. See also the YT channel of A.D. Robles.

Blogger Unknown December 10, 2020 10:54 AM  

This might be a little off-topic, but only slightly.

VD said: "Give them enough time and they'll be filing amicus briefs in favor of NAMBLA."

Because Love is Love, maaaaaaaaaaannnnn.

Yeah, that's of course on the virtue-signal lawn-signs decorating McMansions up here in suburban Boston that are owned, nearly all, by well-off (on paper, anyway) white cucks. Their kids are a mess - most families have at least one homosexual and/or trans child, and they couldn't be prouder.

It's like they're all playing Virtue Signal Bingo with other cucks.

The Burning Times are not going to be kind to them. Nor should they be.

And yet they think I'm a knuckle-dragging troglodyte because I claim Yeshua as my Savior. They can't imagine how I ("an educated man like you", they always add) can believe such "fairy tales".

I tell them they believe we "evolved" from literal fucking rock and that pretty much ends the "conversation".

Blogger Arthur Isaac December 10, 2020 10:54 AM  

(ERLC) Easy Road to Lost Cause?

That which can be shaken will be shaken.

Blogger PJW Gent December 10, 2020 10:56 AM  

When Thomas Jefferson told William Smith "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants" the thought could just as easily be applied to the Church with "The tree of Christanity must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of the Saints & the sons of the devil who oppose them."

Blogger JohnAltGalt December 10, 2020 10:57 AM  

Unfortunately, even the Orthodox are under attack. Geopolitics is obliging Greek Orthodox to cater to CIA interest or side with Russia. The answer seems obvious but they think Biden is going to save them from the Turks. Are they retarded or what? I can't even begin to grasp why they think this. Doctrinally Greek Orthodox still okay, but def a battle going on. ROCOR is solid.

Blogger Wanderer December 10, 2020 10:59 AM  

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."

James 4:4

Blogger Shane Bradman December 10, 2020 11:07 AM  

"For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's enemies shall be they of his own household."

Blogger Renee December 10, 2020 11:09 AM  

We have recently started looking for a new church. I was looking at the website of the local mennonite churches and was shocked at how many of them prominently displayed the rainbow flag right next to their name.

"We find our home in the lands of the Cree, Ojibway, Dakota, and Metis nations.

We gather in Treaty lands, covenanted between Indigenous and settler peoples in 1871.

We gather in our common humanity as diverse communities, with unique stories and gifts, to learn from and celebrate each other."

I think I might have found a small unaffiliated baptist church that meets in a community centre but we will see.

Blogger SecondComingOfBast December 10, 2020 11:34 AM  

Greece is one of the most left-leaning countries in Europe, especially Eastern Europe, so it's not surprising they would have a greater affinity for Democrats. Doctor Steve Turley is Orthodox. I wonder what he has to say about this.

Blogger Johnny December 10, 2020 11:34 AM  

>>who inevitably recommend that more resources and influence be directed their way...

The science version of this is 'needs more research'.

Blogger SecondComingOfBast December 10, 2020 11:36 AM  

I never trust any church that makes up rules that aren't in the Bible. No, sorry, but drinking beer is not a sin.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 10, 2020 12:01 PM  

Jesus promised us the world would hate us as it hated him. How can the world hate those who agree with them on nearly everything?

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 10, 2020 12:04 PM  

SecondComingOfBast wrote:I never trust any church that makes up rules that aren't in the Bible.

I don't know if you can really make this a serious redline. Every group has its own interpretations and rules to address new situations. No one is realistically going to have an "only the Bible" approach.

Blogger LRRP December 10, 2020 12:07 PM  

Drinking beer may not be a sin, but dancing is. John the Baptist was beheaded for a dance.

Blogger Good Knight December 10, 2020 12:18 PM  

"being tolerant and nice and inclusive is quite literally the broad and easy way to Hell"

Yep.

Blogger B December 10, 2020 12:18 PM  

It's not just happening to the SBC. It's happening in the Vatican. With the Vatican, convergence started much earlier (dating from the 1930s, at least, when communists and homosexuals, supported by Stalin, began infiltrating U.S. seminaries, as per former communist leader Bella Dodd).

Blogger B December 10, 2020 12:21 PM  

VD says: "The world hates Jesus Christ. If it doesn't hate you, then you're probably not much of a Christian."

This is so true.

Blogger Dark Herald December 10, 2020 12:21 PM  

My own view on the Great Commission is that we should be putting our own house in order first.

Blogger Miguel Pereira December 10, 2020 12:32 PM  

"If the world is celebrating you, your books are on all the bestseller lists, and the media is saying nice things about you, then you are doing Christianity wrong! The world hates Jesus Christ. If it doesn't hate you, then you're probably not much of a Christian."
Factual and Biblical.

Blogger Kraemer December 10, 2020 12:41 PM  

Would you differentiate between a Viennese Waltz and what BB calls the "simulated rape" of modern disco dancing or no?

Blogger Kraemer December 10, 2020 12:44 PM  

Viewing the Scripture as exhaustive is an excellent way to get around the principles by using technicalities imho.
For instance, the Bible does not get into the specifics of sexual practices, allowing one to be technically chaste while still doing 99% of what happens at a rave party.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 10, 2020 12:54 PM  

Kraemer wrote:Viewing the Scripture as exhaustive is an excellent way to get around the principles by using technicalities imho.
No, looking for loopholes means you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be looking for ways to please your savior and be about His father's business. If you're looking for ways to cheat, you aren't saved.

Blogger d December 10, 2020 1:03 PM  

Deviate from subsidiarity; die.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 10, 2020 1:04 PM  

For a minute there I thought this was about Single Board Computers.
Well nothing is sacred.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira December 10, 2020 1:14 PM  

@28
Very excellent.

The media had a lot of praise for Jorge Bergoglio when he began pretending to be Pope. If only I knew then what I know now.

Blogger Manster December 10, 2020 1:22 PM  

@5
I was just typing that I listen to AD Robles and he talks about this type of stuff alot lol

Blogger Ahărôwn December 10, 2020 1:48 PM  

If you're looking for ways to cheat, you aren't saved.

This. The Pharisees were continually called out by Jesus for this very behaviour. Holding people to Christian standards isn't Pharisitical, trying to see how close you can get to sin without actually sinning is.

It's remarkable the inversion that has taken place in regards to this, even amongst Christians.

Blogger DannyDanger December 10, 2020 1:56 PM  

Vox's points on the cult of "nice" are just spot on. I listen to Faith Radio out of St. Paul from time to time while driving and it is amazing how much of the broadcast revolves around muh feelings and getting non-Christians to like you.

They are so focused on the love part of providing the Truth with love that the Truth ends up getting lost in the process. But what is love without Truth? Crowley was all about the love. The Beatle's said "all you need is love; love is all there is". Nonsense. There can be no real love without the Truth to anchor it.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei December 10, 2020 2:08 PM  

My own denom is suffering numerically because they struggle with this truth on a management level. If you are not Biblical, Godly, and orthodox no one will come and your church will die.

I had this talk with a priest and he looked at me funny. People have such inverted mentalities. Pandering to the world does not work, and its numerically provable.

Blogger Reichenberg December 10, 2020 2:30 PM  

This is a general problem in all faiths and religions. The Errors of Russia, as the Virgin of Fatima called it, have propagated through the world. the Errors of Russia are: materialism, naturalism, egalitarianism, anti-spirit, anti-truth, anti-God, anti-Logos.

This was all foretold, if we dont consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, which, contrary to hearsay, never actually happened, not in the way the Virgin requested.

Blogger Zaklog the Great December 10, 2020 2:32 PM  

Yukichi Sensei wrote:Pandering to the world does not work

That depends what your goal is. If your goal is to preach the truth and grow the church, clearly not. However, if you have other goals . . .

Blogger Glaivester December 10, 2020 2:50 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Kraemer wrote:Viewing the Scripture as exhaustive is an excellent way to get around the principles by using technicalities imho.

No, looking for loopholes means you're doing it wrong. You're supposed to be looking for ways to please your savior and be about His father's business. If you're looking for ways to cheat, you aren't saved.


I don't think that Kraemer was advocating for that, it was more of a tongue-in-cheek statement.

I wouldn't say that looking to cheat means you are not saved. It does mean that you are at least living in disobedience.

I should also point out that sola scriptura does not mean that the scriptures are exhaustive, just that no interpretation or commentary is inerrant the way that scripture is.

Blogger Christan Hauser December 10, 2020 3:45 PM  

The Viennese Waltz requires locking your hips into your partner's crotch to overcome centripetal force as you circle the dance floor. Believe me, it's sexy.

Blogger Reichenberg December 10, 2020 3:59 PM  

Yukichi Sensei wrote:My own denom is suffering numerically because they struggle with this truth on a management level. If you are not Biblical, Godly, and orthodox no one will come and your church will die.

I had this talk with a priest and he looked at me funny. People have such inverted mentalities. Pandering to the world does not work, and its numerically provable.


May I inquire, what your denomination is?

Blogger Newscaper312 December 10, 2020 4:03 PM  

A couple issues I have with the "scripture and only scripture" stance as re that 1. the Church existed for a few decades before the written New Testament books first solidified, so things were happening in the meantime, not all if which would necessarily be written down, hence some notion of Tradition. 2. The usual Christian take is "inspired" by God and not considered literal taking dictation as with Mohammed, or translation as w Joseph Smith.

Blogger Markku December 10, 2020 4:14 PM  

Well, you have to be a bit careful with the word "inspired", because it is used in an entirely different way in modern English:

"Middle English enspire, from Old French inspirer, from Latin inspirare ‘breathe or blow into’"

The word is simply an archaic reference to this verse, using a Middle English word that is no longer used this way: 2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

So, in order to avoid equivocation, in accurate language we should only speak of Scripture being "breathed out" by God, because it is so easy to misunderstand "inspired" by God.

Blogger Oswald December 10, 2020 4:29 PM  

I see and understand God’s will more clearly if I meditate on his word daily. If I am not reading daily, then I am more likely to be mislead by the world. All of the World’s goals are contrary to the word of God. No matter how much a “worthy goal” is dressed up, when it is broke down to its basic elements it is shown to be from Satan.

Blogger Faramir December 10, 2020 5:28 PM  

Methinks that the SBC, as an organization but not necessarily all churches, has fallen into the trap of equating—and thus conflating—its role of pursuing justice (in the sense of rule of law, evidentially- and rationally-supported legal decisions, laws that comport with the Scripture to begin with, rooting out corruption and instilling purity in the legal officials, among other possible points); compassion to the stranger, orphan, and widow ("stranger" referring to the legally-present non-Hebrew) via charitable support that serves to assist those who actively seek but have not yet obtained work or are unable to work by no fault of their own; and more generally service to those truly in need, with the message of, "Accept and affirm all, as a function of love, and give them what they want, so that they will be enticed by how 'loving' we are." That includes shying away from telling the difficult truth, and also accepting the devious messages that ground redemption, regeneration, restoral, renewal, and spiritual maturation in materialistic theories of self-salvation. Welcome to postmodern existentialism (which has poisoned many Christian thinkers' minds) as it drives much of Churchianity today.

I say this with sorrow, as a covenant member of a strong Southern-Baptist-affiliated church that has not, so far as the pulpit teaching goes, sold out to these messages. But I know that some within my congregation have accepted various of these messages, which troubles me deeply. I have some limited sphere of influence, but I am contemplating how to expand it, because these messages must be countered with the truth.

Blogger LRRP December 10, 2020 7:14 PM  

A man with spiritual discernment has only to sit under a JD Greear sermon for a few minutes before he begins to sense that the walls of JD's theological house are not vertically straight. There are no right angles in the construction, but they are off by only a few degrees. Most people don't notice.

For at least 20 years the SBC has been openly anti-men/fathers and very very pro-women/mothers, which is why have left. What remains are subservient geldings, empowered women, and the left.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 10, 2020 7:30 PM  

"...trying to see how close you can get to sin without actually sinning is."

Possibly the ancient source of the phrase "Just the tip"

Blogger map December 10, 2020 8:20 PM  

Yukichi Sensei wrote:My own denom is suffering numerically because they struggle with this truth on a management level. If you are not Biblical, Godly, and orthodox no one will come and your church will die.

Huh...

I thought you wrote "demon."

Blogger map December 10, 2020 8:22 PM  

Newscaper312 wrote:2. The usual Christian take is "inspired" by God and not considered literal taking dictation as with Mohammed, or translation as w Joseph Smith.

This is an important point. The Bible is divinely inspired, but still a work of Man, not the literal word of God. It is, in fact, a catalog of the religious experience of believers.

Blogger Edjamacator December 10, 2020 10:54 PM  

PJW Gent wrote:"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants"

Personally, I'd much rather see it watered with only the blood of SJWs and other leftists. I'm sure the nutritional content would be similar, but it would leave our best people alive and remove the cancerous ones. Win win.

Blogger Solon December 10, 2020 11:01 PM  

@46
I have struggled on this point in my own study of the Bible, actually.

Many (most?) take the Bible as a simple sort of "moral guideline" about how to organize a Godly society. Some think it's ALL fairy tales, and some think it's allegory, and some pick and choose what they like and ignore the rest, and some read it all as literally as possible.

I simply dont know what the truth is, and I pray daily for the Holy Spirit's help in the matter. I suspect the truth is unknowable to us mere mortals, at least until we are returned to our Home, one of the great Mysteries of God.

My take so far is that, we are told "God writes His laws on the heart, not on stone or papyrus." In that light, I believe that "the sheep know their Shepherd's voice," and they dont follow the voice of one who is not their Shepherd. If something "feels" wrong to a devout Child of God, that strikes me as inspiration from the Holy Spirit, of course using Scripture as a guide.

Abortion, homosexuality, globalism/miscegenation/blending of cultures and peoples, these all are abominations. I use the Tower of Babel story as a reference: if God wanted all people to be combined and united, He would have made them so, but He struck them down when they tried it on their own.

So, is the Bible the Truth? Of course it is, but even without it, the Sheep would KNOW that what is evil is evil.

Would that God would lift this heavy cross off our shoulders and take this cup from our lips, but as He did not do so for His Son, so too must we persist in carrying out His plan for this damned world.

Lord have mercy on us sinners.

Blogger Frozen Territory December 11, 2020 2:43 AM  

@48
Solon, might I recommend "Basic Bible Interpretation" by Roy B. Zuck? The book was given to me by one of the most solid, godly, and practical preachers I have ever met, and I found it to be a simple, logical guide to understanding scripture. God gave us all both hearts and minds, and I expect that relying solely on one or the other for guidance would overtax the system. Lord have mercy on us all indeed.

Blogger SirHamster December 11, 2020 3:17 AM  

SecondComingOfBast wrote:I never trust any church that makes up rules that aren't in the Bible. No, sorry, but drinking beer is not a sin.
"No men in the women's bathroom" isn't in the Bible either.

Drinking beer isn't a sin, but getting drunk is. A house rule of not drinking beer to avoid drunkenness is plenty reasonable, especially for certain ethnicities that have a weakness to alcohol.

Causing your brother in Christ to stumble is a sin. That leaves room for church leaders to set rules tailored to their flock's spiritual needs.

Blogger John Rockwell December 11, 2020 8:24 AM  

@SirHamster

"No men in the women's bathroom" isn't in the Bible either."

It is derived from the distinction between Men and Women by the Prohibition on Cross-dressing and the general protection of women in a Patriarchal society whose Fathers and Brothers are sure to avenge them.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 11, 2020 12:34 PM  

Frozen Territory wrote:olon, might I recommend "Basic Bible Interpretation" by Roy B. Zuck?
I strongly second that.
John Rockwell wrote:@SirHamster

"No men in the women's bathroom" isn't in the Bible either."


It is derived from the distinction between Men and Women by the Prohibition on Cross-dressing ...

Yes.

Blogger SirHamster December 11, 2020 2:12 PM  

@51

John Rockwell wrote:It is derived from ...

I would think the following paragraph where I derived rules from Biblical truths should have been sufficient to demonstrate I am well aware this method exists and is valid.

Thus, it is nonsensical to treat a church's enforcement of non-Biblically explicit rules as inherently wrong and evidence of divergence from the Truth.

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