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Saturday, December 05, 2020

Mailvox: stick and carrot

 A reader has a theory:

I've had this theory for a while and I figure I should put it out there on record in case it turns out to be right. My theory is that you two are attempting to take over the script. I don't know if you are doing it consciously or subconsciously.  Either way you get equal credit because you are following your true inner beliefs/instincts in terms of what you believe needs to be said/heard. 

Vox is the good cop providing hope, morale, and a path to victory for Trump. Owen is the bad cop who is mocking and shaming Trump relentlessly into action. Vox is using the carrot. Owen is using the stick. It doesn't matter if the masses hear either of you, it only matters if Trump does. If he believes in your collective ability to predict the future then he will put a lot of stock into the two roads that you are showing him are in front of him.

You aren't writing the script, you are guiding the script. If this has openly been your plan from the  beginning then that is pretty incredible. If you don't realize this is what you are doing then perhaps it is worth considering.

For my part, I don't think the God-Emperor pays any attention whatsoever to anything that Owen or I do, say, write, or think. Sure, there are people on Team Trump who are aware of my thoughts and incorporate them into their analyses, but if there is one thing we know about Donald Trump, it is that he is his own man and he answers to no one but Jesus Christ.

I don't play a role. What you see here is not the totality of me, but for better or for worse, it is an accurate representation. As for Big Bear, I think he is even less prone to playing a part than I am; personalities aside, I have considerably more control over my public output than he does by virtue of our preferred media. 

Labels:

99 Comments:

Blogger brbrophy December 05, 2020 1:00 PM  

Interesting idea nonetheless

Blogger Homesteader December 05, 2020 1:06 PM  

I'd say it's simply that your ideas are in harmony with the taste of the times.

Blogger Caesar Rodney December 05, 2020 1:10 PM  

Now this is a fanfic I can get behind.

Blogger Reprehensible Adam December 05, 2020 1:11 PM  

Its team Jesus Christ and it always goes according to His plan.
May every man be a liar and God be true.

Blogger Jeroth December 05, 2020 1:27 PM  

If Trump were altering his decisions based on the persuasion of his followers, he would be a worthless leader (almost by definition). The only thing we should be trying to influence is morale. So if Owen is bitching about Trump (haven't watched in a while, so I'm not sure this is the case) with only a few weeks left until the moment of truth, he is wrong and Vox is right.

Blogger Nikolai Collushnikov December 05, 2020 1:33 PM  

People have complained that Trump never cracked down on media or social media any further than mocking them. I think that Trump's strategy was to allow the seditious media and Big Tech a free and then demoralize them by winning in an undeniable landslide.
Trump was relying on the hatred of normies for the system.

Blogger AsunderBear December 05, 2020 1:47 PM  

The only potential rift I see forming between them is who has the best banning so far. My favorite is from Vox. “ I’m disappointed Vox” ..... “No you’re banned” delivered sans emotion.

Blogger rekrapt December 05, 2020 1:58 PM  

All things serve God.

Blogger Slick727 December 05, 2020 2:04 PM  

Good analysis..I prefer Vox's method.
That being said Devon Stack needs an honorable mention...another excellent voice of reason.

Blogger Doktor Jeep December 05, 2020 2:05 PM  

To be one's own man is to have one of the most precious things in all creation.

Blogger Beery Swine December 05, 2020 2:08 PM  

This is unrelated, and I apologize if it isn't the place for such, but I really feel the need to thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I have been an atheist for around 15 years and started watching BB about 2 years ago, then finally started watching your videos in March of this year. I've always been interested in hearing views different from my own, so long as they were genuine and without malice, and especially if they were unique among the sea of normality online. I've enjoyed your and Owen's insights and entertainment so much, and you've both had such an impact on my life, that you two are the first video loggers of any kind I've given money, via subs at DLive and UATV. I'm sorry if this is a bit ranty, I'm definitely a self-aware special boy gamma attempting to recover, but you two have recently, within the past couple months, been at least in part responsible for the biggest impact on my life, probably for all time, and that is developing faith in God and Christ the redeemer. I won't say I'm any kind of super Christian yet, my faith is still a bit small, but it's definitely growing from the initial mustard seed it began as.
Anyways, to end this wall of text, thank you so very, very much for helping me to see the light. This past year has been the greatest on record, as far as I'm concerned.

Blogger Evac311 December 05, 2020 2:14 PM  

Vox and Owen are both right. They're just tapping into different layers of the narrative. Qanon has said himself that we're watching a movie. If you want to be reminded this is all a movie, listen to Owen. If you want to know how the movie ends, I think Vox has the game figured out. I appreciate both of them as they speak to different aspects of our perception and they both offer a Christ centered path to truth in our time.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 05, 2020 2:17 PM  

I like our little corner of the internet, down by the river with an unlicensed bar in the back of the burger joint, and the International Order Of Bears across the street, but I don't imagine it's driving the President of the US.

Blogger Yossarian December 05, 2020 2:24 PM  

Vox is a Sigma.
Owen is a Bravo.

When an Alpha disappoints a Sigma he'll carry on as before.
When an Alpha disappoints a Bravo he'll lash out feeling betrayed.

Deltas seek leadership. When one leader says X about the Alpha and the other leader says non-X about the Alpha, cognitive dissonance will take hold.

Anonymous Anonymous December 05, 2020 2:28 PM  

After Trump I would say you are the most dangerous man alive. Ideas are hard to control once they start to take root. Some men harmonize with the times others strike a discordant note. But there are some who do neither.

Blogger evilfranklin December 05, 2020 2:32 PM  

POTUS Trump has the advantage. There are more than 70 million people with suggestions on how to proceed. Most are useless or already considered, but, there is always room for new ideas and new approaches to completing the task. One of those ideas may make a huge difference. One of those ideas may help put him back in the WH.

Blogger Shimshon December 05, 2020 2:36 PM  

I like our little corner of the internet, down by the river with an unlicensed bar in the back of the burger joint, and the International Order Of Bears across the street, but I don't imagine it's driving the President of the US.

If the call comes for skulls, he knows who to ask for help.

Blogger JimR December 05, 2020 2:39 PM  

Nice try Vox but that's just what you'd say if it were true and accurate.

Blogger Shimshon December 05, 2020 2:40 PM  

Owen has commented enough on the differences he has with Vox over the subject.

Owen does like to say he bats a thousand. We'll know soon enough either way.

Blogger Unknown December 05, 2020 2:47 PM  

I feel that Owen and Vox agree that we're watching whales thrash around and that that thrashing isn't part of our daily lives. Vox just likes to swim closer to the thrashing.

Blogger Grooveware December 05, 2020 2:54 PM  

The court jester was the only person that could mock the King and survive, there's lots that I don't agree with that Owen says, but I've heard more truth out his mouth than anyone I know, Vox underestimates how important his voice is in these times, his Darkstreams are solly missed. And both brought me back to God, and I owe them a great debt for that.

Blogger Evan E December 05, 2020 2:59 PM  

BB is on the warpath. He banned me from his Instagram and then mocked me yesterday on his stream. I followed two people are Instagram, Trump and BB. I had just seen Trump's rigged election meme and then immediately after the one BB had that included 'jerk off." It triggered me into a flippant comment, but I stand by what I said. I remain bewildered by BB' s opinion of Trump. The contrast between VD and BB is striking. Yes, much of politics is nonsense, but that nonsense affects us all nonetheless. And the 'script' is the script of life, which we all partake in, in a fractal way. What Trump does in the coming weeks is huge on a planet wide scale and to pretend otherwise is denial.

Blogger Haus frau December 05, 2020 3:03 PM  

My impression of Owen is that he has a deep and very reasonable antipathy toward the tendency to idolize Trump that some of our side has.

Blogger Br1cht December 05, 2020 3:25 PM  

Vox having an effect on policy I could believe and if the god-emperor would put Owen as Ambassador in the Vatican post-purge I´d even start watching the news again, imagine the pure havoc a hairy gigant with a grudge would bring.

Blogger Igor the Obscure December 05, 2020 3:27 PM  

However much President Trump is influenced by others, it is good to remember:
"The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD; he turns it wherever he will."
Proverbs 21:1
May the president continue to be used by the LORD and may Vox and Owen be blessed in their respective efforts to see justice is done.
"The Lord of hosts has sworn: “As I have planned,so shall it be,and as I have purposed,so shall it stand.'" Isaiah 14:24

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 05, 2020 3:27 PM  

Sorry to tell you this, Bears, but Owen is wrong. He is deeply, seriously, studiously and imperiously wrong.
It's not the first time, it's not the last time. He reacts emotionally and then keeps doubling down.

Blogger Angels1978 December 05, 2020 3:32 PM  

I've been wondering the same things, but both offer a healthy perspective. Owen is right that we shouldn't get caught up in it, and we should focus on "crushing" instead of spiraling and being in despair. Vox's perspective offers more inspiration and what could be if people with the power have courage to do what must be done. Clearly a lot of people with power do not have the courage to do what's right, and we'll find out shortly about Trump within the next two months. No matter what happens, our morale is high in the moment, and it doesn't change what is right in the eyes of God. At the end of the day, Jesus is still Lord.

Blogger Steve Samson December 05, 2020 3:34 PM  

Its team Jesus Christ and it always goes according to His plan.

Exactly. We were just reading a couple of posts ago about Vox-isms being seen in the wild. There's no way to tell how many of the 80 million Trump supporters or Trump himself have been influenced by Vox Day, albeit second, or fifth, or seventieth-hand.
We've all a part to play. Vox is playing his.

Blogger Critias December 05, 2020 3:36 PM  

@Beery Swine
That's excellent news. I've been gradually coming back too and I would recommend you to start praying as it helped me and I hope it can help you. The Rosary is excellent for that, because it helps you to focus and think about the important points in the life of Christ. Fulton Sheen's videos are on youtube those are great and I think reading Chesterton's The Everlasting Man is a good idea too.

Checkout videos about Our Lady at Fatima, TheFatimaCenter youtube channel and look for videos of Father Issac giving talks about Fatima. What's going on in the world today has been prophesied and what's happening is a vindication of the faith.

Blogger Keith December 05, 2020 3:46 PM  

“You support the rebels from our lands in the north and I will oppose the rebels from our lands in the south”

Blogger MATT December 05, 2020 3:48 PM  

"Bad Cop" whining and blackpilling is annoying. I used to think Cerno did it because he knew higher ups read his tweets, but now I think he really is just that wishy-washy. It helps no one. Focusing on only the bad, or airing out your childish feelings is for your personal diary, not a public forum.

Blogger LeMage December 05, 2020 3:53 PM  

Let's water Beery Swine's little mustard seed a bit:

Read your Bible. Start anywhere. Just pick a book and read.

Pray daily. More than once.

Seek the company of other believers.

Get baptized.

And remember, God wins. And if you are in Christ, that means you win.

Blogger Garret Garland December 05, 2020 3:59 PM  

Its strange sometimes watching Owen and reading Vox because while they seem opposed to each other on a surface level, it doesn’t feel as if they are. I can watch/read both and come away feeling inspired by both of their messages.

Blogger MATT December 05, 2020 4:00 PM  

Theres MAGA and then theres Ilk MAGA. I dont think many regular readers of this blog hold any delusions about Trump, the sort of man he is, or what he can reasonably be expected to do in order to halt the decline of this country. At most hes able to stop the evil ticket takers from twisting it any more than they already have, for a little while longer.

And seeing as how many readers here are Christian, I was under the impression that any Trump soft-idolatry was tongue in cheek. Idolatry is absurd enough even without it being immoral. No human can save you.

Blogger Ska_Boss December 05, 2020 4:01 PM  

Just my two cents here, but I think that if a majority of Owen's fans are anti-Trump then he will lean towards that stance as well, even after banning tons of people you still have somewhat of an obligation to your audience if you want to keep them around. And with him being a comedian allowed to make fun of anything and anyone he wants it just makes it even easier.

But forget the politics of Trump, the whole Owen making fun of Trump jerking off guys because he is waving his arms in the air while dancing is pretty lowbrow. And I say this as a long-time BB fan.

Blogger Lambo11 December 05, 2020 4:16 PM  

Owen is doing what he always does, destroying a sacred cow. He sees the idolization of Trump and so he reacts as he always does, it’s no surprise if listen to anything he’s ever said. Now, whether he’s right or wrong doesn’t matter. What matters is that you live your life in Truth and Logos the best you can, you’ll actively be apart of Gods divinity and plan you do so. I’m not saying to sit around and do nothing, I’m also not saying to take to the streets in arms. I’m saying there’s a third option, like the Kurgan said, do not think in binary. Just because A doesn’t not mean B or vice versa, there is a C.

Personally, my C, is providing for my family the best way possible to ensure we endure what’s to come in the future. If someone comes knocking on my door with ill intent, then I’ll defend accordingly.

I know there’s always more context, details, circumstances etc. but a life of logos means the armor of God. That faith/hope is all I need.

Blogger Sir William Bradford December 05, 2020 4:22 PM  

Right on brother

Blogger anne December 05, 2020 4:53 PM  

Simulation theory is wrong. We're actually living in an Orson Scott Card novel.

Blogger jkmack December 05, 2020 4:55 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash What is Owen wrong about? The Tel Aviv Sleeve, Zion Don?

Anonymous Anonymous December 05, 2020 5:07 PM  

Whatever his theory is, it remains irrelevant - the bottom line is Trump serving his 2nd term. OB, Cerno and whoe'er else can say what they will, albeit in vain. I'll decide whether or not to forgive them later once I'm right -- y'feelmeh.

Now's no time to do weird brain games.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd December 05, 2020 5:08 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:I like our little corner of the internet, ... but I don't imagine it's driving the President of the US.
Probably not, but his drivers probably check in here occasionally.

Blogger LeMage December 05, 2020 5:09 PM  

Er, MATT..?

Jesus was human.

Blogger Reader December 05, 2020 5:15 PM  

The fact that Owen admits to voting for Obama but will not admit to voting for Trump, that I am aware of, says much about him. I don't know what and don't care enough to analyze it, but it's not someone I would trust 100% to do the right thing. I would trust Vox's instincts in worldly matters but not Owen's. Owen is not my enemy, but he is also not my ally. That giant lives with his head in the clouds.

Shut up and make me laugh is basically my attitude toward the guy. And he used to make me laugh. But his Trump bashing and mocking during this election fight is insupportable. I end up shutting down his stream after about 3 minutes. I don't even go there anymore. He and his bears can live and shit in the woods, and pretend they are insulted from the machinations of this world, but they would be wrong.

Blogger Reader December 05, 2020 5:43 PM  

Just to clarify, I meant to write "insulated" in my previous post rather than "insulted". The former makes sense in the context, but the latter could be used to make some kind of point, which I was not at all trying to make.

Blogger stevo December 05, 2020 6:04 PM  

You're not sorry

Blogger Wazdakka December 05, 2020 6:29 PM  

Ave centurion
Ego audire et sequi

Blogger Nqt December 05, 2020 7:50 PM  

♥️

Blogger SirHamster December 05, 2020 8:03 PM  

jkmack wrote:What is Owen wrong about?
He was wrong when he mocked the Holy Spirit. Effective rhetorical button to push. Bad thing to do.

He likes to slaughter sacred cows, but the Holy Spirit is not a sacred cow. The Holy Spirit is simply sacred.

Blogger My Shield Is Disgust December 05, 2020 8:12 PM  

Trump is the God-Emperor. Jesus Christ is King of Kings, Lord of Lords, God-Emperor of God-Emperors.

Blogger Yossarian December 05, 2020 8:16 PM  

Lambo11 wrote:Owen is doing what he always does, destroying a sacred cow.

That's generally a good thing but not when he's looking at the Trinity and Jesus as just another sacred cow. This road he's now on has lead to the Great Schism, the birth of Islam, and fedora-tipping atheism. I know it's within the comedian's nature to press on the boundaries but he's not smiling at all when he's doing it to his own faith. Him going after Trump is not about Trump, it's about what he perceives as our genuine blind faith in the God Emperor. When a comedian doesn't get the joke, the issue goes deeper than the joke itself.

Blogger Beery Swine December 05, 2020 8:45 PM  

Thanks for the kind words of support and encouragement, Critias and LeMage. I actually started praying before I began to believe, around July. I figured "what the hey, if it doesn't work, I've only wasted a few minutes here and there". Just praying for family and friends who were sick and stuff. I've been reading the Bible more and more (tho still not very much, really, mainly Revelation and some well-known stories) for about 5 years, once I started realizing how much real world truth there was in it, like basic life advice.

Blogger Piqua Bear December 05, 2020 9:02 PM  

The problem with the Q narrative is that it's just more lies and secrets from our government, and I'm tired of our government being run by liars and manipulators. President Trump is hopefully working towards a righteous goal, and I understand deception is a part of war, but lies are lies and I'd rather check out of the beast system altogether.

Blogger jkmack December 05, 2020 9:20 PM  

@SirHamster So he is absolutely correct about the Tel Aviv Sleeve, Zion Don?

Blogger jkmack December 05, 2020 9:53 PM  

"the holy spirit" is a series of words. Some people utter those words to describe 1/3 of the trinity. Some people utter those words to emotionally manipulate listeners. Owen Benjamin mocks people doing the later, not the former. If you fail to understand that, that is on you. Not Owen Benjamin.

Blogger Unknown December 05, 2020 9:55 PM  

*tilts head*

you're seriously hypothesizing that Vox and Owen are reprising Demosthenes / Locke dynamic of "Ender's Game"?

really?

so ... which one of them is Valentine?

Blogger xevious2030 December 05, 2020 10:15 PM  

“Owen is doing what he always does, destroying a sacred cow.”

No. That is an excuse. He’s attacking the Alpha. What he’s doing, in these times, under these circumstances, is shifting his place in the SSH.

Blogger Balam December 05, 2020 10:49 PM  

I believe there is reality to this idea.

The idea that occured to me is that Vox either has strong control over his emotions or his emotions do not affect his actions strongly. Owen is very swayed by his emotions.

This explains it because the media's main attacks are always emotional and for good reason because it works on most people. Anyone vulnerable to emotional manipulation is in a whirlwind right now because the media is going harder than ever before. Owen talks a lot about the sorcery of it and has said he spent a lot of his career immersed in it.

Back on topic I imagine that publishing William Lind and Martin Van Crevald is enough to get a glance from Trump. If not Vox the White House is looking at the people Vox publishes.

Blogger A trite re-white December 05, 2020 10:55 PM  

The reader is on the right track, Vox is raising good soldiers, while Big bear is creating farmers, self sufficient red necks ( American style that hate government.) So basically raising the standards of people everywhere... I'll be scaling a mountain later and burning a cross in Prayers to their endeavors. (Traditionally burning a cross was the Scottish highland custom of declaring war). Peace be upon you brothers. I myself am on the Kurgen spectrum as I become more and more of a fanatical Zealot daily... My violence levels are starting to get unmanageable...

Blogger Joel Raúl Villegas December 05, 2020 11:23 PM  

Yeah, that's what the carrot dude would say!

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 05, 2020 11:26 PM  

jkmack wrote:"the holy spirit" is a series of words.
That is pure sophistry.
All of Scripture is a series of words.
Just stop, you're embarrassing yourself. And Owen, if he is capable of embarrassment.

Blogger Evan E December 05, 2020 11:50 PM  

We'd be in two new wars if Trump was a Zionist. He obviously is influenced by them (he worked in NYC for decades, how would you not get entangled with Jews in that place?). It's classic Art of the Deal with Israel too. Move the capital or whatever, but no wars. They tried with North Korea and Syria and Trump didn't take the bait. A Zion pawn would have engaged in one or both.

BB doesn't understand this approach to things. He tends to purity spiral. Trump might be fully aware vaccines are poisonous junk, but that isn't where the majority of his supporters are in their beliefs. Thus, Trump will give them a vaccine, but it will be optional. Democrats are totalitarians and will mandate the vaccine. That's the difference and it's a big one. BB loses sight of basic policy like this and then will continue to find all the flaws while ignoring the achievements. And that's not how politics works. Especially in the DC swamp. He is being unrealistic about the situation, getting frustrated by it, and then turning to mockery. But then other days he seems to get it. But then the next he is spiraling again.

Blogger nyan December 06, 2020 12:03 AM  

Great Awakening, Dark to Light, et cetera.

Owen's teaching his bears to not be led. He's teaching them to lead themselves. In this way, he reflects a lot of Q's ideas while varying on the surface-level politic. There is a distressing tendency within MAGA to defer to authority. This is one of its most dangerous facets. The emotion and uncertainty in American politics right now is really harmful for a lot of people. Owen's trying to bust them out of the harmful feedback loops by getting them reliant on themselves and each other. Wizard spells are Owen's antithesis. The whole "Hold The Line" meme going around right now is weapons-grade wizardry, though positive.

Vox, on the other hand, plows right into the miasma and imposes his order on it, exactly as Vox's crew expects. Vox's crew expects critical-insightful support of Trump and visit explicitly for it.

The two know their audiences deeply and behave in ways they think will be best for them. Additionally, Owen knows that Vox will be Vox, and that the Bears can get Vox's takes readily if they want pro-Trump white pills.

I think that trying to represent Vox-Owen as some kind of spectrum is faulty. The relationship is closer to orthogonality than polarity.

Anonymous Anonymous December 06, 2020 12:31 AM  

The guy who commented is revealing more about himself than he is about Voxday and Owen Benjamin at the end of the day.. nothing to take seriously noticing the amount of wordplay in that comment.

Blogger SirHamster December 06, 2020 12:32 AM  

jkmack wrote:@SirHamster So he is absolutely correct about the Tel Aviv Sleeve, Zion Don?
Non-sequitor.

jkmack wrote:"the holy spirit" is a series of words.
You're acting like the half-witted atheists who substitute "god" for "God".

Confess that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead.

Blogger jkmack December 06, 2020 12:35 AM  

@snidely whiplash you seem quite expert in sophistry. I am disappointed. would have been glad to be wrong on substance. Certainly not the case here.

Blogger jkmack December 06, 2020 12:41 AM  

@Sir Hamster Jesus is Lord, and God did raise him from the dead. Which implies that he did not raise himself from the dead, which implies that Owen is correct.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 12:53 AM  

Jkmack,
You will never feel the touch of a woman
You will never have the respect of men
You will never not be mocked, both to your face and behind your back.
You will never be a woman.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 12:55 AM  

jkmack wrote:Which implies that he did not raise himself from the dead, which implies that Owen is correct.

No. It does not. It doesn't even appear to imply that, you fucking moron.

Blogger Piqua Bear December 06, 2020 12:56 AM  

Very well put. It's not like any of us have to choose one or the other. I'm a bear but I respect and appreciate Vox and his followers because they are different from bears. The commentary on this blog is top notch compared to anywhere else on the internet.

Blogger SirHamster December 06, 2020 1:18 AM  

jkmack wrote:Jesus is Lord, and God did raise him from the dead.
Good answer.

As to the rest of your earlier comment, once you play games with the meaning of words, you've undermined any foundation for common understanding. You've reduced words to emotional spells.

Blogger David McCarthy December 06, 2020 1:40 AM  

Projecting. Your comment is revealing more about yourself than you are about the commenter.

Also, what wordplay? It's a theory.

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2020 1:51 AM  

“He's teaching them to lead themselves.”

That’s not how natural orders work with men.

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2020 2:03 AM  

“Jesus is Lord, and God did raise him from the dead. Which implies that he did not raise himself from the dead”

What the fuck does that mean? He was just some nice guy, did some nice things, and people ran around calling him “Lord,” like they call some guys “Fingers?”

Blogger Yossarian December 06, 2020 3:07 AM  

Saying that the phrase "Jesus raised himself from the dead" does not make any sense is idiotic and Owen is mocking those who have no issues with its logic.

I used to raise myself from the dead all the time when I played videogames. "Respawning" and "raising yourself from the dead" are equivalent phrases. This concept is so easy to grasp not even 3 year olds have trouble with it.

Blogger Steve Samson December 06, 2020 3:18 AM  

Which implies that he did not raise himself from the dead

"On the third day He rose again, in accordance with the scriptures." Does that work better for you?

Blogger Balam December 06, 2020 4:18 AM  

''I understand deception is a part of war''
If you say you understand it then you have not yet internalized it. Down here with the civvies we are not even in the chain of command. You and I, correct me if I'm wrong, aren't soldiers, fbi agents, cia, major media figures, spies, hackers, foreign leaders, statesmen or anything that would require us have information beyond the apparent. When you're playing Command and Conquer or Warcraft we're not even a clickable unit. What Trump needs from our ranks is/was to vote, to not riot, to not believe the media and maybe a few bucks. If you have a hunger for more then make yourself valuable to those who could tell you or get on the scene yourself and report it to others.

Blogger A Greener Shade of Pale December 06, 2020 6:58 AM  

Vox, after reading the above commentors' repeated diatribes, I can't think of a better time to resume your discussion of "Mere Christianity". As C.S. Lewis described, I unapologetically remain a "camper in the hall" precisely because of this sectarian division.

Blogger VD December 06, 2020 8:58 AM  

The relationship is closer to orthogonality than polarity.

Precisely. Owen and I are friends and allies. But he does his thing and I do mine. Neither of us requires, or even thinks to ask for, any permission of the other to do or say anything.

I daresay that we pay less attention to what the other is doing or saying than most of our fans and supporters do. When we talk, which is frequently, we're usually not talking about anything even remotely related to whatever the concern de semaine happens to be.

Blogger Slick727 December 06, 2020 9:03 AM  

Exactly...this thread took a turn in the wee hours.

Blogger xevious2030 December 06, 2020 10:14 AM  

“does not make any sense is idiotic”

Then the definition of death you use in incorrect, in God context. “[…] ‘Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.’” John 11:11
Now, is “Lord” just a nickname like “Fingers?”

Blogger hysteropotmos December 06, 2020 11:07 AM  

People that spend much time dispelling wizard words need to beware the trap of coming to view all words as such. This does happen, and these people wind up sounding like sorcerers apprentices.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei December 06, 2020 11:28 AM  

Owen has recently been a heresy spouter. So I will take him seriously, and treat him as a comedian who jokes, and can take a joke back, and who's theology is a joke. Anyone who gets their theology from him should check themselves.

His heresy burned me out, and I stopped watching. I pray for his correction.

Im here because of him and years of spell breaking is good, and he can also cast spells that are wrong. As associated folk, pointing out error is part of wanting his good.

Blogger Beery Swine December 06, 2020 12:00 PM  

I'm still a very new Christian, so bear this in mind.
I'm only willing to say "Jesus is Christ the redeemer, sent by God for our sake, so that we all may be welcomed into His loving embrace." I don't like using the word "lord" for him, because it is a title given to landowners, and below the rank of king. King OF kings, lord OF lords, not merely "king" or "lord". Referring to Him as merely "lord" I think misses the point and the context, and just kind of seems like some grabbly word game to me. The message, to me, is merely "above all men". I follow Jesus, God's son, who was the example for all men, and worship God the father, the one above all others.
Again, I'm new, and nothing I've said is set in stone for me, past my first quote in this message. I'm on my journey, my beliefs and thoughts are subject to change upon new information and revelations. God bless you all.

Blogger sammibandit December 06, 2020 12:41 PM  

I've noticed that Snidley only smack talks under specific criteria, like being insulted. I really hate that people give him a bad rap. He's kind in the true sense of the word. I.E. treating people in kind to how he is treated. He's been nothing but kind to me and I'm a retarded millennial. Therefore I conclude people who have a problem with him should look in the mirror.

Blogger hysteropotmos December 06, 2020 1:03 PM  

God bless you, Beery Swine. May your appetite for truth grow, even as it continues to be satisfied in Christ.

Lord is just the traditional English word for the person with authority, to whom we owe fealty and faith, which is why we confess that he is Lord, instead of confessing that he is some Greek word we don't ever use or properly understand. The relationship between lord and king isn't universally established, by any means, and has little to do with such labels as Lord of all creation, or Lord of heaven and earth. The usage has everything to do with our allegiance and praise and acceptance of his authority and salvation than any sort of larger ranking system. Personally, I've also always liked the connotations the word has with "dispenser of bread" and the spiritual parallels that can be drawn there, though I don't make much of it.

All in all, don't overthink it. Better to live it out without using the specific English word than to use it and not know him.

Blogger Piqua Bear December 06, 2020 1:30 PM  

You can sign to be a part of the deception, no one is trying to stop you. I said I'm done participating in the charade. If a billionaire needs my money to fight the deep state, then the whole operation must be in trouble. He doesn't need my money and you guys seem to be doing just fine without me. I'm rooting for you guys and I hope Trump comes through.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 2:25 PM  

sammibandit wrote:I've noticed that Snidley only smack talks under specific criteria, like being insulted.
If you insult the holy Trinity, you can bet I'm coming for you. God is not mocked.
Other than that, I consider myself more a teacher than a belligerent here.
mkjames' remark was, literally, sophistry, in its distilled essence. I did not intend to insult him, but to describe his statement.
Since he is a gamma and immune to correction, he took insult and tried to flip it back at me. But I was studying philosophy when I was 12. I know what I'm talking about and he. demonstrably does not. He's a post-modernist who does not believe that words have meaning, or that meaning can be conveyed.
So fuck him. He's a moron.

BTW, Despite being a Boomer, I like Millennials.

Blogger sammibandit December 06, 2020 4:11 PM  

Exactly. It's our jobs as Christians to counsel brothers and sisters who err. It's Owen's job, should he take it to introspect into how he erred and how he'll stay on the narrow path going forward. With you I am in aggreance that he put forth some non-Christian words.

Regarding jkmack, he may have passed the witch test but failed the bitch test. He is a sophist as you indicate. Owen is incorrect and the sooner bears see that, the better.

Thanks, BTW.

Blogger Yossarian December 06, 2020 4:17 PM  

xevious2030 wrote:Then the definition of death you use in incorrect, in God context. “[…] ‘Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.’” John 11:11

It's not incorrect because I use it at a theological and biological level. Death as in cessation of life. No pulse. No activity. Dead, Jim, dead.

This concept is literally child's play if you use a game analogy. When I play a game I have a videogame nature and a human nature. When I die in the game I say "I died" and I mean "death" as the game fully defines "death". "Jesus died" is as clear as anyone can possibly make it and if you engage in some Petersonian "depends what you mean about death" then you're just spewing nonsense.

The Divine Logos has two natures, a divine one and a human one. Just like I have two natures when I'm playing a video game. Death is a property of human nature therefore "Jesus died" doesn't have any metaphorical or allegorical undertones. Death is not a property of divine nature which is why when people say "Jesus died" it should be clear to that we're talking about His human nature. Again, when I'm playing a videogame and I say "I'm fighting Bowser to save the Princess", nobody in their right mind will think I'm actually fighting a turtle monster to save some princess even thought they're 110% certain I'm engaging in that same activity.

Jesus did not equivocate death with some form of sleep-like state. Nor did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead in the same manner Jesus rose from the dead. As it's understood, resurrection became a property of human nature after Jesus died on the cross which was part of the plan for the incarnation (i.e. take human nature). So whatever state Lazarus was in it couldn't have been death, and his state after Jesus woke him up couldn't have been a resurrected state. Implying anything otherwise leads to incoherence, and incoherence leads to heresy.

We even have proof Lazarus did not get resurrected. A resurrected body is an immortal body. So shouldn't Lazarus be walking about even till this day? And if his resurrected body was raised to Heaven by angels much like Jesus was, why is this not mentioned in the Bible? Surely this is a far memorable miracle than some formerly bed-ridden guy walking around like normal.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 4:22 PM  

sammibandit wrote:With you I am in aggreance that he put forth some non-Christian words.
Owen did not "put forward some non-Christian words".

Owen mocked God.

Remember that, he mocked God. He mocked the Holy Spirit in graphic sexual terms. He could not have even conceived of this were he an actual Christian.

If anyone wants to know why I refer to (((Owen))) disparagingly, it is because he thinks it's clever to mock God. He also, like other members of his tribe, is seemingly incapable of discussing religion without sexualizing every aspect of Deity.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 4:31 PM  

Yossarian wrote:Nor did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead in the same manner Jesus rose from the dead. As it's understood, resurrection became a property of human nature after Jesus died on the cross which was part of the plan for the incarnation (i.e. take human nature). So whatever state Lazarus was in it couldn't have been death, and his state after Jesus woke him up couldn't have been a resurrected state.
Lazarus was dead. But Christ is the Master of life and death. Jesus restored him to life.
BUT
Jesus did not resurrect Lazarus. He restored to Lazarus his normal, mortal life. In the same way, he raised Tabitha to life through the intercession of Peter.
These were not the resurrection. These were signs of Christ's power and mastery. They were intended to establish Jesus' status as divine and serve as instruction to His followers.

Blogger Yossarian December 06, 2020 5:03 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Lazarus was dead.

Sure.
To clarify I meant Lazarus was not Dead, capital 'D'. Lazarus was dead (lower case 'd') kind of like how doctors describe a clinical death, or some sort of deep coma. Jesus even mentions he was asleep, and sleep is a form of coma.
Jesus did not die on the cross, He Died on the cross (capital 'D').

Blogger Snidely Whiplash December 06, 2020 5:29 PM  

No, Lazarus was DEAD. He was in Sheol, the abode of the dead. He had shed this mortal coil. He had passed on and joined the choir invisible. He was gone, kaputt, morte, muerte, DEAD. He was an ex-Jew.

Compare and contrast:
"Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead" vs.
"Jesus raised Lazarus from a coma."

Which is a miracle only God can perform, and which a happy accident of being in the right place at the right time?
"Jesus is Lord" means exactly this: Christ is the Master of matter, time, life and death.

Do not minimize the great works done by the hand of a loving God.

Blogger Yossarian December 06, 2020 6:58 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Do not minimize the great works done by the hand of a loving God.

I'm not minimizing it, I'm making a chronological observation and a clarification of terms. Resurrection became part of human nature after Jesus died, and resurrection implies getting an immortal body like Adam once had. If people could get resurrected prior to this then His whole crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection become a mere performance.

So whatever "raised from the dead" means it can't mean "resurrected" because all humans get resurrected but not all humans get raised from the dead.

raised from the dead =/= resurrected
So as humans we have:
Conception->Mortal Life (on Earth)->Death->Resurrection->Immortal Life (in the Eschaton)
This is the natural order of things after Jesus, and we have no more choice in the matter of getting resurrected than we have in getting born.
Lazarus underwent something like:
Conception->Mortal Life->??death??->getting raised from the dead->Mortal Life->Death->Resurrection->Immortal Life

"??death??->getting raised from the dead->Mortal Life" is the miracle part and not something part of human nature. My initial explanation was that ??death?? =/= Death. After Death follows Resurrection then Immortal Life. We weren't told that after Death we can get back to Mortal Life, such instances are only in the Bible. Jesus can send us back to Mortal life, He can do anything.

I looked back on my previous comments and made some mistakes. When I said "Jesus raised Himself from the dead" I meant it on a theoretical level to explain that the logic of the phrase itself makes sense. Jesus underwent Death and Resurrection and this then applied to the whole of human nature AFTER He died on the cross. In my second comment, me equivocating "raised from the dead" with "respawning" then saying "Jesus rose Himself from the dead" implies that all human will get raised from the dead i.e. respawned which is not true.

In my third comment I then talked about Jesus dying on the cross as Dying with a capital 'D' thus accidentally implying that raised from the dead = respawning = death and resurrection. This is a mistake.

Blogger sammibandit December 06, 2020 7:56 PM  

Owen mocked God.

Remember that, he mocked God. He mocked the Holy Spirit in graphic sexual terms. He could not have even conceived of this were he an actual Christian.

If anyone wants to know why I refer to (((Owen))) disparagingly, it is because he thinks it's clever to mock God. He also, like other members of his tribe, is seemingly incapable of discussing religion without sexualizing every aspect of Deity.


Yeah, you're right. Owen has a tribal tendency towards New Age philosophy, and I had thought that was his error. It's not worth getting into that when the bigger error is taking the Lord's name in vain.

Blogger Yossarian December 06, 2020 8:51 PM  

A bit of levity.
New Age Christian vs ACTUAL Christian (the denominations are irrelevant):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRujuE-GIY4&ab_channel=mutant763

Blogger sammibandit December 06, 2020 9:43 PM  

"Internet-assembled philosophy", hahaha.

Blogger xevious2030 December 07, 2020 7:38 AM  

“and if you engage in some Petersonian "depends what you mean about death" then you're just spewing nonsense.”

You have projected. And you’re a fucking liar. The Bible describes a sleep state. To God, who brought a physical universe to be, out of comparatively nothing, bringing back from death is no more difficult that waking someone else up is to us. When God raises Jesus, the term is specifically to cause to sit up from a relaxed or reclined position. The act of being made to wake up from death, and the transformation of putting on incorruptibility are, by the description of the Bible, different things.

Blogger xevious2030 December 07, 2020 10:09 AM  

“raised from the dead =/= resurrected”
“??death?? =/= Death”
“When I die in the game I say ‘I died’ and I mean ‘death’ as the game fully defines ‘death’.”
“To clarify I meant Lazarus was not Dead, […] Lazarus was dead”
Definitely not meth.

“We even have proof Lazarus did not get resurrected. A resurrected body is an immortal body.”
We have proof you refuse the distinction between the rising from death, and the putting on of incorruptibility. That you do not distinguish between the steps of a series of steps.

And, because beating a dead horse is for fun:
“Jesus did not equivocate death with some form of sleep-like state”
He literally did. That is exactly what Jesus did. Read the English, read the Greek.

Dance for me dead horse
Isaiah 26:19, “Quwts” Wake up

Dance for me dead horse
Daniel 12:2, “Yashen” Sleeping

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