ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2020 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Monday, February 01, 2021

Never trust "the science"

Don't ever forget that trusting "the science" is less reliable than trusting a coin toss. Just wait a little while and there is about a three-in-five chance that what was dismissed as "dangerous conspiracy theory" that "costs lives" will become "peer-reviewed studies published in a prestigious science journal" and "mainstream consensus".

Remember when science said HCQ was useless against Covid-19? Now science says it's an effective early medical treatment that helped 67 percent of the people to whom it was prescribed. And yes, taking zinc will help stave it off.

Combination Antiviral Therapy

Rapid and amplified viral replication is the hallmark of most acute viral infections. By reducing the rate, quantity, or duration of viral replication, the degree of direct viral injury to the respiratory epithelium, vasculature, and organs may be lessened.16 Additionally, secondary processes that depend on viral stimulation, including the activation of inflammatory cells, cytokines, and coagulation, could potentially be lessened if viral replication is attenuated. Because no form of readily available medication has been designed specifically to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication, 2 or more of the nonspecific agents listed here can be entertained. None of the approaches listed have specific regulatory approved advertising labels for their manufacturers; thus all would be appropriately considered acceptable “off-label” use.17

 Zinc Lozenges and Zinc Sulfate

Zinc is a known inhibitor of coronavirus replication. Clinical trials of zinc lozenges in the common cold have demonstrated modest reductions in the duration and or severity of symptoms.18 By extension, this readily available nontoxic therapy could be deployed at the first signs of COVID-19.19 Zinc lozenges can be administered 5 times a day for up to 5 days and extended if needed if symptoms persist. The amount of elemental zinc lozenges is <25% of that in a single 220-mg zinc sulfate daily tablet. This dose of zinc sulfate has been effectively used in combination with antimalarials in early treatment of high-risk outpatients with COVID-19.20

 Antimalarials

Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is an antimalarial/anti-inflammatory drug that impairs endosomal transfer of virions within human cells. HCQ is also a zinc ionophore that conveys zinc intracellularly to block the SARS-CoV-2 RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, which is the core enzyme of the virus replication.21 The currently completed retrospective studies and randomized trials have generally shown these findings: 1) when started late in the hospital course and for short durations of time, antimalarials appear to be ineffective, 2) when started earlier in the hospital course, for progressively longer durations and in outpatients, antimalarials may reduce the progression of disease, prevent hospitalization, and are associated with reduced mortality.22,  23,  24,  25 In a retrospective inpatient study of 2541 patients hospitalized with COVID-19, therapy associated with an adjusted reduction in mortality was HCQ alone (hazard ratio [HR] = 0.34, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.25-0.46, P <0.001) and HCQ with azithromycin (HR = 0.29, 95% CI 0.22-0.40, P <0.001).23 HCQ was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration in 1955, has been used by hundreds of millions of people worldwide since then, is sold over the counter in many countries, and has a well-characterized safety profile that should not raise undue alarm.25,26 Although asymptomatic QT prolongation is a well-recognized and infrequent (<1%) complication of HCQ, it is possible that in the setting of acute illness symptomatic arrhythmias could develop. Data safety and monitoring boards have not declared safety concerns in any clinical trial published to date. Rare patients with a personal or family history of prolonged QT syndrome and those on additional QT prolonging, contraindicated drugs (eg, dofetilide, sotalol) should be treated with caution and a plan to monitor the QTc in the ambulatory setting. A typical HCQ regimen is 200 mg bid for 5 days and extended to 30 days for continued symptoms. A minimal sufficient dose of HCQ should be used, because in excessive doses the drug can interfere with early immune response to the virus.

 Azithromycin

Azithromycin is a commonly used macrolide antibiotic that has antiviral properties mainly attributed to reduced endosomal transfer of virions as well as established anti-inflammatory effects.27 It has been commonly used in COVID-19 studies initially based on French reports demonstrating markedly reduced durations of viral shedding, fewer hospitalizations, and reduced mortality combination with HCQ as compared to those untreated.28,29 In the large inpatient study (n = 2451) discussed previously, those who received azithromycin alone had an adjusted HR for mortality of 1.05, 95% CI 0.68-1.62, and P = 0.83.23 The combination of HCQ and azithromycin has been used as standard of care in other contexts as a standard of care in more than 300,000 older adults with multiple comorbidities.30 This agent is well-tolerated and like HCQ can prolong the QTc in <1% of patients. The same safety precautions for HCQ listed previously could be extended to azithromycin with or without HCQ. Azithromycin provides additional coverage of bacterial upper respiratory pathogens that could potentially play a role in concurrent or secondary infection. Thus, this agent can serve as a safety net for patients with COVID-19 against clinical failure of the bacterial component of community-acquired pneumonia.31,32 The same safety precautions for HCQ could be extended to azithromycin with or without HCQ. Because both HCQ and azithromycin have small but potentially additive risks of QTc prolongation, patients with known or suspected arrhythmias or taking contraindicated medications or should have more thorough workup (eg, review of baseline electrocardiogram, imaging studies, etc.) before receiving these 2 together. One of many dosing schemes is 250 mg po bid for 5 days and may extend to 30 days for persistent symptoms or evidence of bacterial superinfection.

Trust engineers. They actually know what they're doing. Don't ever trust science or scientists. 

Labels: ,

153 Comments:

Blogger The Observer February 01, 2021 5:32 AM  

The goodwill institutional science built up with the public from the 40's to 70's is rapidly circling the sink.

Blogger MATT February 01, 2021 5:35 AM  

Science is bullshit. The "scientific method" is just part of what engineers use. Nothing special about following a method then wasting time to get "other scoentists" to review your work and pretwnd they believe it can be reproduced. Worthless academic class, almost as evil as the journo class.

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 5:38 AM  

It's sickening.
How many lives ruined over craven political spite.

Blogger Mirko i Slavko February 01, 2021 5:39 AM  

But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing.

Blogger Linda Fox February 01, 2021 5:41 AM  

There was always an easy way to check the efficacy of HCQ - for those already taking it for health conditions BEFORE infection, how many died of COVID? Even without Zinc supplements, that should be significantly les.

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli February 01, 2021 5:44 AM  

Thank you. This can never be repeated enough.

Blogger M In The 517 February 01, 2021 6:02 AM  

Here comes the science on why you should tRuSt ThE ScIeNcE

(Certainly there are a few ex FARK users on here....before FARK and everything else went woke...)

Blogger The Last Roman February 01, 2021 6:03 AM  

I met fat, dumb sociologist who was working on how the Internet creates culture (which she couldn't explain) refer to herself as a scientist. She went on to complain about how they don't get as much money in govt. grants as chemists and physicists.

Blogger Dan in Georgia February 01, 2021 6:04 AM  

Amazing how flu cases went down 99% at the same time, isn’t it?

Blogger Lazarus February 01, 2021 6:08 AM  

Lots of scientists and clinicians were presenting clinical studies of the effect of this combination in early treatment. This all back in the first few months of the political pandemic. They were all attacked, smeared, and disappeared. The orthodox Jew who I first heard about used it on over 300 patients. He was soon fired, moved to Israel, and got suppressed there. He was on twitter till a couple of months ago. Now I can't even get a response to his name in search engines.

A lot of dead people's relatives should be burning down CDC offices about now.

Blogger Nym Coy February 01, 2021 6:12 AM  

Next you'll tell me that wearing a mask and breathing in your own exhalant every day increases viral load and gives people worse outcomes.

Blogger Shimshon February 01, 2021 6:14 AM  

@4 "But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing."

Yes, but the good ones know it.

Blogger Nym Coy February 01, 2021 6:17 AM  

Ha! I commented before reading. I was right!

"Reduction of Self-Reinoculation
It is well-recognized that COVID-19 exists outside the human body in a bioaerosol of airborne particles and droplets. Because exhaled air in an infected person is considered to be “loaded” with inoculum, each exhalation and inhalation is effectively reinoculation.15 In patients who are hospitalized, negative pressure is applied to the room air largely to reduce spread outside of the room. We propose that fresh air could reduce reinoculation and potentially reduce the severity of illness and possibly reduce household spread during quarantine. This calls for open windows, fans for aeration, or spending long periods of time outdoors away from others with no face covering to disperse and not reinhale the viral bioaerosol."

Anonymous Anonymous February 01, 2021 6:21 AM  

The science is as reliable as a random guess.

Blogger Balam February 01, 2021 6:21 AM  

That swirling sound is simply the gullible boomers dying off.

Anonymous Anonymous February 01, 2021 6:22 AM  

According to science at one time, smokes were good for you.

Blogger Harambe February 01, 2021 6:24 AM  

We need to hold them accountable for each death that could have been prevented if they weren't playing politics.

This study isn't exactly breaking new ground. I could have told you that first Paragraph based on what I learned in 9th or 10th grade Biology in the 90's. Granted, I wouldn't know which exact medicines to prescribe, but it's common effing knowledge that slowing the replication rate of a virus lessens the severity of the symptoms. So at the very least if there isn't an approved treatment or medication, this type of treatment should be fallen back on to give the patient the best possible chance at survival.

I'm not even a doctor and I knew this stuff from 3rd world high school biology. And I didn't even do well in it to begin with. I was more interested in titties and smoke breaks.

Blogger Doug Cranmer February 01, 2021 6:36 AM  

Zastavnik Džemo wrote:But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing.

As old Prof liked to say, "Software engineering is an oxymoron."

At a previous employer we had a manager who like to call guessing "experimental development" so they could qualify for tax credits.

Blogger NRx February 01, 2021 6:39 AM  

The problem with science is "peer review", peer review is just bringing back theocratic control and heresy into science. Except now instead of christian authorities (who were at least theoretically interested in the truth of God's creation) you have progressive authorities which are ignorant fanatics who hate the truth.

Peer review was not part of science during the golden age of science, what mattered was reproducibility.

Blogger Pedro Rocha February 01, 2021 6:40 AM  

I would say "Don't trust engineers that don't work with their hands." As an example, never trust a mechanical engineer that doesn't change his flat tire, an electrical engineer that doesn't change a light bulb, nor a informatics engineer that doesn't configure his own pc. Industrial engineers are almost all scammers though. :D

Blogger Matthew T February 01, 2021 6:41 AM  

**Trust engineers. They actually know what they're doing.**

This is very interesting, because I read this a long time ago, probably 15 years or more ago, I used to be active on an old BB message board, and there was a debate ongoing about evolution. There was a fellow on there, well-educated in science, advocating the standard modern evolution position. I remember one of the things he said that struck me was, along the lines of, "You'll notice that many of the people who write these papers questioning 'science' are engineers and doctors, not actual scientists."

At the time, being much younger, I thought this was a good rhetorical point. Now, I don't think so anymore.

Blogger basementhomebrewer February 01, 2021 6:43 AM  

How many people have loved ones who asked for HCQ and Zinc and were denied it due to their state boards making it illegal to proscribe last spring/summer? How many of those later died of Covid? Ohio's board of health still has its use outlawed. These States should be held accountable, especially since there was "science" at the time that proved its efficacy but was dismissed because the GE endorsed it as a treatment. At best they were trying to score political points. They also were likely trying to further enrich big pharma by taking a low margin option away.

Blogger Nostromo February 01, 2021 6:44 AM  

Can we have an open season for people who lost family to Coronachan to express their appreciation to the masters of the universe that banned HQC as a treatment because "orange man bad".

Blogger phil g February 01, 2021 6:45 AM  

What was so infuriating about the HCQ fake news was that it was simply a safe and cheap risk mitigation tool. It never had to be 100% effective or needed multi-year studies. There was plenty of evidence that it was effective in some circumstances and should have been a widely used tool all along. If in some cases it didn't work so be it. If other cases it proved successful than good. The coordinated and unwarranted aggressive resistance it received revealed much about corruption in the pharma industry, their bought politicians and press. All those stupid drug adds on cable news aren't for our benefit.

Blogger Harambe February 01, 2021 6:50 AM  

MATT wrote:Science is bullshit. The "scientific method" is just part of what engineers use. Nothing special about following a method then wasting time to get "other scoentists" to review your work and pretwnd they believe it can be reproduced. Worthless academic class, almost as evil as the journo class.

You're wrong though. About the first part at least. The scientific method is what we use to discover new things and to test the accuracy of our hypotheses. Engineering is what we do when we apply our findings.

The bullshit comes in at the peer review stage. Because "peer review" is just a bunch of old fuds checking whether you performed the proper procedures. They rarely, if ever, check whether the data is real or if the experiment did what you said it did. Like feeding fake votes into a real vote counting system. Or fake climate data into a real climate modelling system.

Blogger Kingkong February 01, 2021 6:56 AM  

They also announced right as Biden got sworn in that the PCR test, which is the test used to "diagnos" every Corona case is not reliable. Actual "experts" have been saying that since last March. The inventor of the PCR Kary Mullis said the same thing. He convienently died right before the scamdemic began. It's almost as if they didn't want everyone to know that all the millions of positive "cases" were likely not actual cases so they could just pin hundreds of thousands of deaths on Trump right before the election.

Blogger JWM in SD February 01, 2021 6:59 AM  

Right. I believe those suffering from Lupus take it so that population should be looked at.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 01, 2021 6:59 AM  

Evil, how the conservatives can still pretend the state has legitimacy is willful blindness, thanks Boomers. I told the wife at the beginning that we had to make sure we were not the first batch to catch the Coof because they would screw up the treatments. Little did I know how badly and on purpose.

All those low status white losers on twitter with their profile pics of themselves in masks are demonically possessed people.

Blogger Dawgbone February 01, 2021 7:01 AM  

In April, lab studies showed the 1970’s anti-parasite drug Ivermectin kills Covid19, but the NIH-FDA-CDC ignored it, and in August came out against it. Positive foreign clinical trial results forced the NIH to switch to neutral three weeks ago. See FLCCC dot net for more.

Blogger teemac February 01, 2021 7:04 AM  

president trump is right. this will drive people crazy.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 01, 2021 7:09 AM  

We'll have to build our own.
Autism has yet to fully discover science. When it does, look out.
If there were no video games we would have warp drive by now.

Blogger Unknown February 01, 2021 7:10 AM  

I minored in history, and when doing my senior thesis I ran across the medieval warm period.

I started asking questions, most particularly why there has not been a single paper or book chapter on it after 1970. My advisor finally sat me down and told me you can't mention it because people would mistake the MWP as challenging the science on manmade global climate change.

I teach law as an adjunct, to undergraduates, now. Usually at least once a semester I have to sit down a bright student and explain that you are not allowed to mention racial differences in IQ or behavior, nor sex differences even in child bearing.

In fact, Professor MacKinnon's calls for a educational/professional taxpayer supported time out for motherhood is forbidden. The author of the FMLA's most liberal and progressive cause from 30 years ago is now badthink.

Blogger Silly but True February 01, 2021 7:23 AM  

Software engineers should learn to code.

Blogger Dusty Bear February 01, 2021 7:26 AM  

@4 I am one of those Software Engineers and I was going to say the same thing.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan February 01, 2021 7:37 AM  

Last night someone on twitter posted a Jimmy "ticket" Kimmel giving a political rant on his stupid show. I can see how crap like that hurts conservatives since they are tied to the hip with their mentally ill liberal twin.

I think it is hilarious to taunt and mock the gammas and females of the Left to watch those white losers double down, double down till that glorious day of Jonestown II.

Blogger Swamp Fox February 01, 2021 7:38 AM  

Modern day scientist: get the data to match the theory not the theory to match the data.

Wherever you have people, you’re going to have agendas, corruption, and narratives. No one is immune to the human condition, especially an atheist who’s a scientist.

Blogger FutureDeadWhiteButNotDeadYet Male February 01, 2021 7:41 AM  

I don't know if I've ever witnessed such complete surrender to absurdity as is occurring with the Sniffles Pox.

HCQ is a perfect example. When the HCQ kerfuffle kicked in last spring I couldn't help doing some reading. After a grueling 2 minute internet search, I found years-(sometimes decades-) old articles and abstracts praising the efficacy of HCQ as a key player in therapy for various respiratory wee beasties.

I: mention this to leftist or bow-tie acquaintances
They: heard that from Alex Jones, I guess
I: no
They: then from some right-wing, white supremacist echo chamber, I suppose
I: No. It was the National Institutes of Health
They: I'm sure you are taking them out of context...

To give in to such absurdity is not being tricked by a convincing lie. It is submission to obvious lies. Again, for anyone who wants to see, as the SDL says, it is obvious a coin toss is a better source of truth.

Submitting to obvious lies is giving permission. Giving permission brings culpability.

To hell with all of them.

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 7:50 AM  

Social sciences is the give away!

Blogger Bryan February 01, 2021 7:51 AM  

Better than all of the Above is Ivermectin. Dr. Pierre testified in front of congress and was basically ignored. He is the same doctor that said to use steroids when no one else would. The NIH ignored the recommendations. Then, a day before their peer reviewed study was released in "Frontiers in Pharmacology", the NIH put up a recommendation say that it was harmful and that it was unsafe. A few days later (less than a week) a family sued in NY to allow their dying grandmother to have the medication. They won, she got it and she lived. Immediately after that, the NIH moved it to neutral. Read through the studies. They call Ivermectin a "wonder drug." It is safe, cheap and effective. Ivermectin has won a Noble Prize and is considered an essential medication by the WHO. Some countries in south america are using in a prophylactic manner with great success.


https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Blogger MichaelJMaier February 01, 2021 7:55 AM  

The science before February 2020 was out there to be found. Virus behavior didn't change, the politics did. I had idiot sheep trying to call me callous and uncaring for pointing out the facts. MPAFI.

Blogger The Lab Manager February 01, 2021 7:56 AM  

We never heard much about Covid in Africa. It was my general understanding HCQ is anti-malarial drug easily available. Where are the piles of dead Covid victims in Africa?

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 7:58 AM  

With "scientific studies"
The question is.
Is it the objective demonstrable truth you need.
Or if you paid for the work.
Do you get a result that fits whatever outcome you have in mind?
Tortured enough the data can give what you want.
And particularly so with the HCQ studies in some instances.
Not administering the drug until too late to produce any relief.
Being one.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 01, 2021 8:08 AM  

Zastavnik Džemo wrote:But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing.
Software engineers aren't engineers.

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 01, 2021 8:10 AM  

On the positive side, anybody trusting science is dumb enough to get killed by it. The minute mainstream science was against HCQ was the minute to make it a go to treatment. But the rest, and the orange man bad crowd?
Less dumb people.

In a way, there will always be winter wolves, in any form.

Blogger bw February 01, 2021 8:16 AM  

Didn't the life time globalist HIV/AIDS actor Fauci note in 2005 that it works?

Canadian Pharmaceuticals Billionaire And Wife Found Dead ...
[Search domain www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2017/12/15/canadian-pharmaceuticals-billionaire-and-wife-found-dead-in-toronto-mansion/] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2017/12/15/canadian-pharmaceuticals-billionaire-and-wife-found-dead-in-toronto-mansion/
Dec 15, 2017 Canadian billionaire Bernard "Barry" Sherman and his wife, Honey, were found dead in their Toronto home Friday

Blogger John February 01, 2021 8:20 AM  

Yes, many of the failings of "The Science" can be waved away with dubious statistics.

An engineer finds it harder to wave away the pile of rubble that used to be a bridge.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 01, 2021 8:21 AM  

phil g wrote:What was so infuriating about the HCQ fake news was that it was simply a safe and cheap risk mitigation tool.
This is worth emphasizing: it was a 50 year old medicine taken by millions over the long term for things like malaria prophylaxis and lupus. It was a totally known quantity. It was known to be safe. Safer than aspirin, to the point that it should probably be OTC.
Harambe wrote:Because "peer review" is just a bunch of old fuds checking whether you performed the proper procedures.
Not even that, really. They are enforcing their social norms. Did you cite enough literature? Did you do the approved thing in the approved way? Most of all, are you upsetting anyone's apple cart?

Blogger Haus frau February 01, 2021 8:28 AM  

@5 "for those already taking it for health conditions BEFORE infection, how many died of COVID? "

Excellent and very obvious idea. I was prescribed hcq for arthritis. My rheumatologist told me she has been prescribing it for 20 years for lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory arthritis, etc. Very, very few side effects and many healthy benefits including regulating insulin. These hcq taking patients would generally be older with lots of comorbidities so such a study would be notable. Thats probably why it hasn't been done.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 01, 2021 8:30 AM  

How many lives ruined over craven political spite.

All because the first time the media heard about it, it came out of Trump's mouth at a presser, and they couldn't stand the idea of him getting credit for anything. There were other reasons an anti-HCQ campaign built, of course, starting with the need to keep the pandemic going long enough to believably invent a vaccine and push it. But the instant ridicule that came immediately after that daily presser was media butthurt-driven.

I just wish Trump had come out strong for masks at the same time. They'd be banned now.

Blogger Reblane27 February 01, 2021 8:31 AM  

#37--
That's my Emory U trained PA wife's responses every time I try to point out something she should have known herself if she was not wasting her time watching the nightly news and ET.

Blogger megabar February 01, 2021 8:40 AM  

> Science is bullshit.

Science, and the scientific process, is legitimate. The success of academic science in the 20th century, however, has led to a rapid growth of its practitioners, and application of it to areas where it is less applicable.

This is the classic case of overgeneralization: If science was good solving X with people Y, then it must also be good as solving problem A with people B.

The result is that we have less talented scientists, applying a technique to areas where it not particularly good. To compound this, we still grant the resulting bad output the same reverence we did for the previously legitimately good science.

Blogger theartistformerlyknownasgeorge February 01, 2021 8:58 AM  

While science is often genuinely fickle, limited, and unreliable, none of the "mistakes" made during the Kung-flu fraud had anything to do with those limitations.

Kung-flu was tool. The only "correct" interpretation of any data was the one that wielded the tool as they wished.

Blogger Sicilian switchblade February 01, 2021 9:03 AM  

Anything with the qualifier "trust" isn't science, it's a cultish following, or the beginning of a scam.

Lab coats have become the new holy vestments of the priest class.

Any blasphemers against magic white coat man shall be banished from Twitter world, their jobs, their friends, society.

Blogger Damelon Brinn February 01, 2021 9:06 AM  

What was so infuriating about the HCQ fake news was that it was simply a safe and cheap risk mitigation tool. It never had to be 100% effective or needed multi-year studies.

Right. The same people who rejected HCQ for being less than a 100% cure also said, "Just wear some sort of mask. Even if your bandana is only 10% effective, that's better than nothing, right?" So much hate for these assholes.

But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing.

That's because software engineering isn't engineering. I know because I are one. It should be called computer programming, as it used to be. There are engineering-like aspects to it, especially if you're programming close to the metal with something like assembly, but it's too free-form to call it engineering. We're not called writers because we write code, after all.

Blogger Kettlebells are my friend February 01, 2021 9:16 AM  

If carpenters built buildings the way software engineers build programs, the first termite to come along would destroy civilisation.

Blogger Zundfolge February 01, 2021 9:35 AM  

Any time you see a reference to science preceded by the word "The" you are not seeing science, you are seeing religious dogma. You are seeing a deeply religious person quoting their "priests" in white lab coats.

Science is a process, not a conclusion.

Blogger M In The 517 February 01, 2021 9:35 AM  

Hahaha!!!

Experimental development for tax credits. Filing that one away for future reference.

Blogger great_o'rety February 01, 2021 9:36 AM  

So now we have no fewer than THREE working drugs: hydroxychloroquine, invermectin and amantadine: https://przychodnia-przemysl.pl/covid-19-can-be-treated-in-48-hours/ (this guys has been making pretty big waves with amantadine in Poland (e.g. he successfully treated a deputy minister of justice) for a year now))

Blogger The Lab Manager February 01, 2021 9:37 AM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Zastavnik Džemo wrote:But not software engineers, most of them have no idea what they are doing.

Software engineers aren't engineers.


No one is saying that programming a computer takes some talent, but yeah, these guys are not engineers.

I asked one time how they can be engineers when they have no metric for measuring their software reliability or whether a complicated routine like for fourier analysis will work exactly the same on an 8-bit, 32-bit or whatever computer. No V=IR, F=Ma, or other ways to calculate something.

Blogger rumpole5 February 01, 2021 9:38 AM  

This Boomer has doubted vaccine "science" ever since the swine flu hysteria in the mid 70s resulted in a mass innoculation program that resulted in multiple cases of paralysis.

Blogger Avalanche February 01, 2021 9:44 AM  

How many tens of thousands of beloved people died, alone and gasping for breath (or drugged into insensibility and vented, which killed them!) while the "medical system" patted themselves on the back for "fighting" orangemanbad?!? How many families left bereft?

And this was published back in MAY!

Blogger Harambe February 01, 2021 9:45 AM  

I'm glad I'm not a real engineer. Don't want to take a 40% salary cut.

Blogger Avalanche February 01, 2021 9:51 AM  

From the study, about hydroxychlorquine:
"... HCQ ... helped 67 percent of the people to whom it was prescribed."

Me, wailing: DEAR GOD! Even if HCQ ONLY helped half that!!! 30% of a half-million Americans NEED NOT HAVE DIED!?

Blogger Beto February 01, 2021 9:51 AM  

Finally.. some sound reason.

Blogger JOE February 01, 2021 9:53 AM  

There are two ideas, science and scientism and the line between the two is blurry, if not completely interchangeable. Modern science is in a deeply flawed state, search for "reproducibility problem" to get a sense.

Roughly 70%+ of peer reviewed scientific papers can't have their conclusions reproduced, even by the original experimenter in many cases. Add in the idea of scientism, the "trust the science" bs (not a scientific statement btw), and you get a hot mess of sophistry posing as something concrete.

The point a commenter made about software engineers not being scientists is absolutely true. I tend to refer to it as Applied Philosophy.

Blogger Didas Kalos February 01, 2021 9:58 AM  

God, the judge of the whole earth, knows and keeps meticulous records of the wrongdoings of people who withold beneficial treatment to sick people. Many coronavirus deaths are on the debit accounts - to be revealed on judgment day before a great white throne.
I personally hope their evil deeds are discovered here in this time, and punished.

Blogger FP February 01, 2021 10:12 AM  

@47

"It was known to be safe. Safer than aspirin, to the point that it should probably be OTC."

Noticed in the grocery stores a couple months back that there were now bottles of tonic water with new labels, usually non major brands. Labels that very proudly touted their brand of tonic water "Contains Quinine". Well, duh but why all of a sudden now tout the main ingredient of tonic water I wonder?

A drug thats been known to western medicine for 500 years, longer to humanity as a whole but nah, we need to test it more says Fauci.

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 10:27 AM  

True.
If results can be replicated independently by another group of scientists.
It's a good indicator of the validity of the original work.
The current system values papers and citations over quantity.
The aim is secure funding as much as good science.
Creating original scientific research isn't the primary objective.
It's positive results.
And unfortunately disappointment and failure are a fact of research.
But nobody wants to know that.

Blogger Diamondo February 01, 2021 10:30 AM  

Correct. Engineering is know in some universities as "Applied science ". Engineering is generally the application of the properties of physics and chemistry to solving problems.
I blame Dilbert for the widespread misunderstanding that Programming aka Coding is "Engineering "

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( LeMoron James loves knife murder ) February 01, 2021 10:33 AM  

41. The Lab Manager February 01, 2021 7:56 AM
Where are the piles of dead Covid victims in Africa?



you hush now.

there is nothing the slightest bit suspicious about a nation of 330 million accounting for 19% of the "official worldwide deaths" for a total population of +7 billion.

Blogger Crush Limbraw February 01, 2021 10:45 AM  

Engineering = Empirical Evidence!
Look around you - those buildings and bridges better stand; those planes better fly. If not, some bastahd compromised the standards or was just plain incompetent. Empirical evidence proves both - IF HONESTLY EVALUATED!
As usual, whenever I read a piece that touches a nerve, I go to DaLimbraw Library. In this case - I simply put in Empirical Evidence in the search window - a whole slew of articles covering masks, planes, politics, etc. - you can do the same.
Here is just one connecting some dots - https://crushlimbraw.blogspot.com/2019/07/empirical-evidence-your-lying-eyes-and.html?m=0 - truly proving that America is NOT corrupted - it is 'CORRUPTION which is the system'.
Thank you, Vox!

Blogger Cary February 01, 2021 10:52 AM  

As a couple of people have already noted Ivermectin has performed even better than HCQ. It has been discussed in previous comment threads, but for people that didn’t see and because many Dr’s won’t prescribe it, you can order pills from international pharmacies. Or as an alternative it is widely used for animals. You can pick up a tube of paste used to treat horses for $4 at Tractor Supply. (make sure to adjust dose if you try this) I got my pills from the link below, which took about 4 weeks to receive. Just checked and the paste is still widely available at all my local Tractor Supply stores. Do your own research at the links noted above.

https://happyfamilypharm.com/

Blogger megabar February 01, 2021 11:01 AM  

> That's because software engineering isn't engineering. I know because I are one.

It depends on how you define things.

I consider engineering to be the construction of novel, complex, practical, and objective things, such as structures, machines, and software systems. Whereas science is the discovery and understanding of the natural world, and craft is the skillful application of a known blueprint.

The things people associate with engineering, such as metrics, are simply because they are useful or required in many engineering disciplines. In software, they are often (but not always) less useful.

I understand not everyone agrees with my definitions.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei February 01, 2021 11:03 AM  

Realise the same people kill innocent babies, they have no ethical issues letting you or grandma die.

Never accept abortion or you accept the rest.

Blogger William Hughes February 01, 2021 11:17 AM  

I manage an engineering department that designs heavy continuous mining machines - Vox's admonishment to trust engineers made me smile a bit. Engineers generally have skin in the game and stand to lose heavily if they are wrong and win bigly if they are right. Some of our most successful designs are over 40 years old and we are always tweaking them to make them a bit better.

My way of describing engineering is science applied as art in order to create technology.

Make sure you separate the practicing engineers with skin in the game apart from people with a title before applying the trust heuristic...

Blogger Doktor Jeep February 01, 2021 11:18 AM  

I just realized that modern science and science fiction are fooked up for the same damned reason.

What is everybody so bogged down paying bills and voting for conservatives that science and fiction are just handed over to these demented subhumans brainlessly?

Or are gatekeepers the prime suspect?

Or maybe we would have our own science already if porn and video games were banned?
Possibly its human weakness, not the strength of the subhumans, that has our civilization in this situation.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 01, 2021 11:20 AM  

"They call Ivermectin a "wonder drug." It is safe, cheap and effective."

Oh, I recognize this pattern. Next someone's gonna say it's harmful to the environment so that their buddies can sell you massively overpriced trash for the same purpose.

Blogger Ray - SoCal February 01, 2021 11:29 AM  

French study of when Switzerland temporarily stopped hcq. Death rate went up. Restated death rate went down.
https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-works-irrefutable-proof

NY Dr that pushed hcq that got booted off Twitter does telemedicine:
https://www.vladimirzelenkomd.com/

And a group of Dr that pushed against the former Covid narrative and got retaliation started a website:
https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/

And instapundit vy oil hcq when he got Covid:

MEDIA DISHONESTY KILLED THOUSANDS, MAYBE MORE: Roger Simon: How the Hydroxychloroquine Scandal Wrecked America and the World Along With It.
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/429478/

Blogger TMLutas February 01, 2021 11:41 AM  

The scientists built corrective systems into science so you wouldn't have to trust scientists.

You can trust the scientific method but you can't trust scientists to apply the scientific method correctly. Besides the problem of fraud and wishful thinking, there's just plain error. These things will never go away. That's why peer review is a thing. That's why confirmatory studies are a thing. That's why there are mechanisms to recognize error and retract papers.

Converting that to a more Internet bent, the people who want you to just trust the science are people who want you not to ever use TCP but instead always UDP. In certain limited circumstances, that's not a bad choice but if you do it for everything, you're crazy and going to get horrible results.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 11:42 AM  

When a scientist is wrong... He *might* be persuaded to retract his paper full of misinformation or even outright lies, but only rarely is he forced to stay home from the next psrty^H^H^H^H^H conference.

When an engineer is wrong, something breaks, malfunctions, or fails to function, causing AT LEAST ONE (and usually more) of the following happen.

* Financial loss
* Productivity loss
* Unscheduled maintenance/repair
* One or more people injured.
* One or more people killed.
* Engineer is indicted in criminal court.
* Engineer spends time in prison.

No scientist has ever gone to prison for even the most ridiculously false statement of "scientific findings", yet engineers have gone to prison for designing in a safety margin of only 3x specified maximum load.

(Exceptions to criminal prosecution apparently exist for female hispanics in charge of pedestrian bridge projects on university campuses in Florida)

Blogger Kingly Gift February 01, 2021 11:45 AM  

Also from that Journal there is this;

"It is well-recognized that COVID-19 exists outside the human body in a bioaerosol of airborne particles and droplets. Because exhaled air in an infected person is considered to be “loaded” with inoculum, each exhalation and inhalation is effectively reinoculation. In patients who are hospitalized, negative pressure is applied to the room air largely to reduce spread outside of the room. We propose that fresh air could reduce reinoculation and potentially reduce the severity of illness and possibly reduce household spread during quarantine. This calls for open windows, fans for aeration, or spending long periods of time outdoors away from others with no face covering to disperse and not reinhale the viral bioaerosol."

And yet the CDC is now saying people need to wear 2 face masks. I swear they are purposely trying to make this disease worse. Here's how it works; normal healthy people, for whom the virus is not a major risk, get exposed to it when they interact with their close friends and family, or possibly they already harbor the virus and unknown seasonal factors trigger the virus to start replicating. Since they are masked or double masked when they leave the house, the replicating virus is more likely to be trapped within their airway, increasing the amount of virus in their trachea and lungs. Which causes the infection to go from a barely noticeable cold, to something much worse.

I can only conclude that the managerial ruling class is purposely at war with us. There is no way that people in high places of the public health world don't understand exactly what they are doing. Many of the politicians and CEOs have a suspicion that everything they are doing is wrong, but they are too selfish and cowardly to resist it. Lord have mercy!

Blogger Doug Cranmer February 01, 2021 11:47 AM  

The Lab Manager wrote:I asked one time how they can be engineers when they have no metric for measuring their software reliability or whether a complicated routine like for fourier analysis will work exactly the same on an 8-bit, 32-bit or whatever computer. No V=IR, F=Ma, or other ways to calculate something.

That's when the programmer will whip out the old reliable, "We have to be practical!" schtick.

Or any one of the variants I've heard over the years. "That's just theory!", "We can't get stuck in analysis paralysis!", etc. etc.

I swear every programmer gets one class in their education that they're sworn to secrecy about where they are told the "We have to be practical" incantation absolves them of every having to do any of the actual hard engineering work that needs to be done before the first line of code is even written.

Blogger Filter Bear February 01, 2021 11:51 AM  

Harambe wrote:I'm glad I'm not a real engineer. Don't want to take a 40% salary cut.

Fortunately engineers don't need the extra money for a pack a day soylent habit and a studio apartment

Blogger Jack Amok February 01, 2021 11:54 AM  

Of course the real science said HCQ was a good treatment, it was only the politicized scientists and their media whores who said otherwise. By June there were 57 studies on treating the Kung Flu with HCQ. 43 said it worked, 10 were useless studies because they started it too late to have any real chance of working, and the 4 that said it didn't work were all suspect. The frauds with lab coats and credentials need to go.

Blogger Jack Amok February 01, 2021 11:56 AM  

If carpenters built buildings the way software engineers build programs, the first termite to come along would destroy civilisation.

If people paid for houses the way most people pay for software, they would be built that way.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 11:57 AM  

>> Nothing special about following a method then wasting time to get "other scoentists" to review your work and pretwnd they believe it can be reproduced.

This is where the corruption occurs. 100 years ago, a scientist couldn't get a paper published until after the members of his review panel had repeated the experiment(s) in their own labs and arrived at similar results. Somewhere along the way, that got transformed into "every time we repeat an experiment, the authors' results are replicated. Let's skip repeating the experiment because that takes resources, money and time -- if it sounds logical then publish it"

Once a new generation of scientists came along who never expect their experiments to be repeated to evaluate accuracy, the science journals because publishers of science fiction.

Blogger Hammerli 280 February 01, 2021 12:15 PM  

As an engineer, I'll add that we can explain our reasoning to any intelligent layman. As Reginald Mitchell (the designer of the Supermarine Spitfire) said to test pilot Jeffery Quill, "If someone claims you would not understand something about an airplane, you can take it from me - it's all ballocks."

Blogger CJ February 01, 2021 12:15 PM  

I've been taking ivermectin, which I bought from a horse supply store. Two things in common with ivermectin and HCQ:
1. they have both been taken by millions of people for decades. It would be difficult to find two safer drugs.
2. they're generic and cheap.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 12:17 PM  

>> According to science at one time, smokes were good for you.

Nicotine is not all that bad for you.

Niacin: It can treat high cholesterol and triglyceride levels as well as niacin deficiency. It can also reduce the risk of heart attack and slow narrowing of the arteries.

Niacin is the name the World Health Organization came up with to hide the association between the benefits listed above and _NI_cotinic _AC_id vitam_IN_.

The problem is much less even tobacco than all of the other garbage the cigarette companies put in their products to screw with the customer in pursuit of more sales.

Personally, I don't like to be around tobacco smoke, but it's due to being allergic to tobacco, and tobacco smoke has a lot of not quite burned tobacco proteins in it, which, when inhaled into my lungs, causes an asthma response.

But in general, smokers are overly put-upon. The No-Smoking in Bars law passed here in Michigan is ridiculous.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 12:21 PM  

>> Peer review was not part of science during the golden age of science, what mattered was reproducibility.

100 years ago, the whole point of peer review was to check for reproducibility -- because the peers would set up and run the experiment in their own labs to see if they could reproduce the results.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 12:27 PM  

>> They also were likely trying to further enrich big pharma by taking a low margin option away.

The bigger goal was to run up the cumulative death count, so that they could blare it in the news every night, just like the Iraq death toll under Bush ( which strangely disappeared from prominence in news coverage the day after Obama was inaugurated..)

The news people don't care about deaths, other than as a tool for creating propaganda against their opponents.

Blogger BeatYourHeadIn February 01, 2021 12:32 PM  

@Rumpole5 Remember, your the exception. Not the rule.

Most boomers I talk to about subjects along these lines respond with, "well I'm not a scientist, so I'm going to listen to what the science says."

The appropriate response to that is, of course, "are you familiar with the Reproducibility Crisis?"

Blogger The Lab Manager February 01, 2021 12:48 PM  

Doug Cranmer wrote:The Lab Manager wrote:I asked one time how they can be engineers when they have no metric for measuring their software reliability or whether a complicated routine like for fourier analysis will work exactly the same on an 8-bit, 32-bit or whatever computer. No V=IR, F=Ma, or other ways to calculate something.

That's when the programmer will whip out the old reliable, "We have to be practical!" schtick.

Or any one of the variants I've heard over the years. "That's just theory!", "We can't get stuck in analysis paralysis!", etc. etc.

I swear every programmer gets one class in their education that they're sworn to secrecy about where they are told the "We have to be practical" incantation absolves them of every having to do any of the actual hard engineering work that needs to be done before the first line of code is even written.


I wish I knew where to find the paper, but I recall reading many years ago about a test of some analysis of the same software written to analyze seismic data looking for oil deposits. I believe most of it was public domain and maybe a commercial package, but there was a multi-step process involved of several steps of filtering followed by analysis. Anyway, this software was tested across a handful of systems following the exact same steps. So you would think that if 'software engineers' were a real thing, the results should be fairly similar. The finding was that were some wild variations between the results run on different systems thought the same steps were followed. And not only did the end result vary, but even the same steps between systems. But hey, 'engineering', right?

Blogger Didas Kalos February 01, 2021 12:52 PM  

@lazarus. agree 100%. With a clear conscience I might add.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 12:52 PM  

>> >> @5 "for those already taking it for health conditions BEFORE infection, how many died of COVID? "

>> Excellent and very obvious idea. I was prescribed hcq for arthritis>

The same goes for the artificial sweetener saccharine, used by diabetics for decades without problem before being banned in the U.S. by the FDA. Why? Because if you force-feed it to rats at a dosage equivalence of 400 12-ounce (about 100ml) cans of pop (soda for you unhip people) PER DAY, the rats get liver cancer.

Yet we didn't see any elevated rates of liver cancer in diabetics. This was, I am sure, a ploy to get an unpatented (or expired patent) product off the market so that it would require replacement by a new product under patent protection and therefore a higher income generator. Who held the patent for Nutrasweet (which is a far worse health hazard)? Du Pont Chemicals?

Blogger Didas Kalos February 01, 2021 12:55 PM  

@matthew tee. Gave me a good laugh.

Blogger Didas Kalos February 01, 2021 12:58 PM  

https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/

How to get covid medical help. If you live in an Orange Man Bad state

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 1:07 PM  

>> If carpenters built buildings the way software engineers build programs, the first termite to come along would destroy civilisation.

That's not how algorithms work.

If you have a better way to program computers, then, by all means, demonstrate to the world so that all of us idiots with computer engineering and electrical engineering degrees can vdesign better programming languages and better CPU designs and instruction sets to make use of your superior programming methodology.

If you can't, then keep your snide remarks to yourself, as your comment indicates that not only do you not have a solution, you don't even understand the problem.

And, no, the mythical "Quantum Computer" is not the solution, either.

The fact of the matter is that ALL algorithms, whether for solving a data processing problem on a computer, or putting a roof on a house, must be followed WITHOUT OMISSION OF CRITICAL STEPS.

If you are roofing a house, but omit the step of delivering boxes of nails to hold the shingles in place, because a termite ate that line in your instruction book, would that make a roof that you want on your house?

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 1:20 PM  

>> Besides the problem of fraud and wishful thinking, there's just plain error. These things will never go away. That's why peer review is a thing.

Currently, in the science journals, Peer Review isn't scientific peer review, it's ideological peer review.

Blogger Doug Cranmer February 01, 2021 1:27 PM  

Akulkis wrote:>> If carpenters built buildings the way software engineers build programs, the first termite to come along would destroy civilisation.

That's not how algorithms work.


If you are talking about algorithms then you're talking about computer science and rigorous design, design analysis, performance analysis and implementation analysis. That is very akin to real engineering. But no programmer ever approaches a problem that way. And they sure don't design algorithms. They'll just sit and try things out in code until it seems to work for the most part and then move on leave any problems for the next programmer.

Programmers don't do computer science and balk or outright refuse if you insist on rigour and professionalism in their work.

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 1:28 PM  

The Romans had an interesting quality assurance method.
The overseer of a bridge would stand under the Arch as the supporting timbers were removed.

Blogger Jpc February 01, 2021 1:37 PM  

Good point Joe.
I mentioned it as well.
It's all about the number of papers metric to boost the chance of more funding.
The quality is as you mentioned "questionable"
As is the whole peer review system.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 1:40 PM  

>>
I swear every programmer gets one class in their education that they're sworn to secrecy about where they are told the "We have to be practical" incantation absolves them of every having to do any of the actual hard engineering work that needs to be done before the first line of code is even written.

During my college years at Purdue (back when centralized time sharing systems running UNIX and other multi-user operating systems for use by dozens of users was still in vogue), when a student in an introductory programming class came to me for help, if he was the first one on the current assignment, I would sort out his problem and get a copy of the assignment handout. Then I would spend 30~45 minutes writing a program to fulfill the requirements of the assignment, so that I would know the problem and any subtle "wait a minute" issues.

From thereafter, if any student came asking for help, I would look first to see if the code was commented yet, and if not, feign complete mystification, and tell the student to put in enough comments so that I can understand what the code is supposed to be doing.

(This is a trick you learn when writing in assembly languages ... Write comments first. Then write code, and each line of code gets a 1/2-line of comment, too... When you are done debugging, you are DONE, because you have already written all of your comments --
This is entirely the opposite of how most people learn to code in higher level languages ... They write code, debug, and only after finished debugging do they add comments, and only to make the teacher or grader happy, or typically lose 10% on their score = 1 letter grade down).

Occasionally, I would later run into some of these same students -- and more than one told me that I taught them more about programming than their prof.

All I did was insist that they explain what they're doing and why they are doing it WHILE they were writing their code.

Blogger Unknownsailor February 01, 2021 1:54 PM  

For those who say software is not engineering, this is only partially true. Every algorithm has a compute cost in time, commonly called Big O. Insertion sort is O(n log n), always. Why? Math.

The common problem everyone has is with software systems. I don't know what you call software design, i.e. turning known software algorithms and design patterns into a complex package that does what the customer wants it to do, but if designers who create complex mechanical and electrical systems are called engineers, then so are designers who create complex software systems.

Mechanical or electrical engineers have the benefit of operating close to the hardware (the real world of physics) at all times. Software designers are often several layers removed from the hardware layer, and this introduces variability of results, not because of what the tested software does, but because of what the system that software is running on does. Compilers differ, as do operating systems, hardware drivers, and the BIOS they all run on.

Blogger David F February 01, 2021 2:00 PM  

Don't trust engineers outside their area of expertise. Doctors and engineers both run into the problem of knowing they're very good at difficult thing X, and assuming that means that they can also sort out Y just as easily.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 2:00 PM  

Doug.


I'm an engineer.

I'm also a programmer.

I would never call computer programming "software engineering".

Good programmers actually DO take the time to do the things you complain that they don't do.

The biggest obstacle to that is managers who see time not writing lines of code as an expense with zero return.

The solution is to get rid of these idiot managers who DEMAND that programmers begin coding immediately without doing the preparation which you suggest. By my 3rd year of college, I was doing all of those things, either in my head, or for more complex problems, on paper or in comments before writing code. Most of my classmates who were also recognized among our peers as the people who you go to when you have a question at 3 am did the same.

Is there trial and error involved? Yes.
But there's also trial and error involved with every invention. And every program *IS* an invention.

(On that note, the vast majority of software patents, ((possibly all of them))) and all business method parents, for that matter, are completely bogus.

U.S. patent law clearly states the phrase "for a specific machine" and yet I have not seen a single software patent which calls for a specific computer design. ALL of them are written for and can be used on any general purpose CPU, thus making these patents completely invalid).

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 2:05 PM  

>> Programmers don't do computer science and balk or outright refuse if you insist on rigour and professionalism in their work.

You've never met a programmer who learned most of his programming skills in an school of electrical engineering.

By comparison, Computer Science profs are lazy, confused, and misapply algorithms based upon preference for what algorithm they want to use over what sort of algorithm best solves the problem. And I am speaking of the faculty in the world's FIRST Computer Science department.

Blogger Harambe February 01, 2021 2:11 PM  

Software development has the problem where everyone else's opinion on how the product should work is more important than the developer's. Or like if white women were in charge of designing pickup trucks.

But hey HUR DUR I SAW MY NEPHEW WRITE FIVE LINES OF PYTHON ONCE SO ANY MONKEY CAN DO IT AND NO I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT INVERSION OF CONTROL OR THE ABSTRACT FACTORY PATTERN IS

Blogger Harambe February 01, 2021 2:15 PM  

"Programmers don't do computer science and balk or outright refuse if you insist on rigour and professionalism in their work."

Have you tried hiring non-Indians?

Blogger M In The 517 February 01, 2021 2:20 PM  

There needs to be a HCQ Prohibition Hall Of Shame.

Blogger Nessimmersion February 01, 2021 2:46 PM  

Re DuPont, patents and scams, guess who held the about to expire patent on the incredibly effective Halon fire fighting medium, when on noes its bad for the environment!.
Guess who manufactures the replacements and heaven knows how many electrical fires that Halon coild have extinguished now burn down buildings or ships.

Blogger mina smith February 01, 2021 2:57 PM  

But you don't *need* HCQ. Other zinc ionphores include Quinine (weird side effects, avoid; HCQ was created in a lab to replace the use of naturally-occurring Quinine), ECGC (green tea extract), Quercetin and potentially Ivermectin.

Blogger Jack Amok February 01, 2021 3:08 PM  

But no programmer ever approaches a problem that way.

Bullshit. Maybe you should stop hiring Java programmers.

Blogger eclecticmn February 01, 2021 3:20 PM  

Trust engineers. They actually know what they're doing. Don't ever trust science or scientists.

Ayn Rand wrote "Science is dogma. Engineering is truth."
I was very offended at that statement when young.
I got a science degree then an engineering degree. There was some culture shock. Engineers cared about "how much" and scientists more about "how."

Roman engineers built bridges long before people understood the math of stress and strain. See also medicine.

BTW I took the horse paste ivermectin and now have the IVM from india. It took 4 weeks to arrive. I ordered off of chooserxdeal.com. I ordered the ivermectin pills. 6mg x 30 for $99 plus shipping. One dose for me would be around 4 pills.

Their phone number is 1 646 760 5383

Blogger eclecticmn February 01, 2021 3:33 PM  

For some quantitative analysis of covid check out Ivor Cummins.
E.g.
https://youtu.be/QU0b-En3pCI
https://thefatemperor.com/published-papers-and-data-on-lockdown-weak-efficacy-and-lockdown-huge-harms/
Published Papers and Data on Lockdown Weak Efficacy – and Lockdown Huge Harms
Here collated are the papers of shame – the lockdown ideology is destroying our societal health, selling the lie of saving lives. Lockdowns cost net suffering and lives – by a huge margin. Here we gather together the evidence.

Blogger Akulkis February 01, 2021 3:46 PM  

@93
>> The finding was that were some wild variations between the results run on different systems thought the same steps were followed. And not only did the end result vary, but even the same steps between systems. But hey, 'engineering', right?

That sort of thing was not unusual considering the wide variety of computation methods used for non-integer, decimal quantities among the CPU designs of the 1960s & 1970s. For that sort of work, it would not be unusual, as late as 1990, to find computers built in the 1960s. Retirement of such hardware was often delayed for years due to the difficulty of meeting software requirements on new, cheap, small, and low power-consuming desktop machines. Ultimately, in many cases, the best solution was to write or obtain CPU emulator software, and run the 1960's code inside the 1960s operating system using the simulator for the 1960s CPU.

(I specifically did NOT use the term floating point, because some of those old machines didn't use floating point concepts to process non-integer quantities. For example, floating point is a term invented to contrast with another methodology -- fixed point quantities, in which the quantity stored had an embedded decimal or binary point. These machines will give you very different results.

Then there is the question of data representation. What is the hardware's built-in data size?
8 bits?
9 bits?
16 bits?
32 bits?
36 bits?

Within that word size and multiples of it, what is the exact representation of a floating point number.

Today, we take it for granted that all floating point calculations on hardware from the last 35 years conform to the standard prescribed in IEEE 754. But as late as 1984, that still was NOT a standard.

Why do we now have the IEEE 754 Standard for Floating Point arithmetic and numeric representation? Precisely BECAUSE the Institute of Electrical and Electronic ENGINEERS put together a panel, lead by engineers from Intel, who came up with a really robust solution for storing, comparing and doing arithmetic on floating point numbers. (The beauty of the standard is that if all you need is an is A greater than B comparison, the answer can be obtained through the same circuit used to do the identical comparison between two signed integer quantities which the same number of bits of storage (i.e. 32, 64, or 128 bit signed integers).

Why was IEEE 754 adopted? And then updated?

Precisely to eliminate the problem you allude to, which had more to do with hardware register and memory sizes, and to a lesser extent, the alorithms used by various compiler-writers, to, carry out the multiplication to solve 3.125 x -0.00063

Blogger Noah B. February 01, 2021 3:53 PM  

I've seen one case where an incompetent civil engineering firm single handedly destroyed a 100,000 SF school building because of its extreme carelessness. And no one, from the engineering firm hired to review their work to the contractors in charge of grading the site and installing the drainage infrastructure, noticed what was wrong beforehand. In a forensic review we spotted it in about 30 minutes.

The huge mistakes tend to happen when engineers aren't actively working on projects themselves and leave the design work to lower level techs and draftsmen. This practice is illegal basically everywhere in the Western world but it's still more common than it should be.

Blogger Kettlebells are my friend February 01, 2021 3:59 PM  

I took a course at Purdue on the Lions Book. The local students were very competent; the instructor, not so much.

The last two new hires from Oregon State thought that a code review did not need any design docs nor comments in the code. The only comments to be found were in the code they'd copied from stackoverflow.

A correction: the original quote said woodpecker, not termite.

Blogger Tommy Hass February 01, 2021 4:18 PM  

"the" science. Weird. Didnt realize it came with an article.

Blogger SirHamster February 01, 2021 4:38 PM  

Harambe wrote:You're wrong though. About the first part at least. The scientific method is what we use to discover new things and to test the accuracy of our hypotheses. Engineering is what we do when we apply our findings.
Most new things aren't learned through the scientific method.

Some new things are learned through observation. A further subset of those observations involve reproducible observable processes that can be tested with scientific experiments.

The scientific method is useful for falsifying some conclusions and theories based on that subset of observations. You can learn what is not true, but that is only a subset of the knowledge out there, and is not that valuable in of itself. There are many more ways to be wrong than right.

There are entire fields that cannot be learned through science.

The most important things in life aren't even scientific.

Do you learn how to be a man through SCIENCE? Will you find the limits of man's wisdom, or the depths of God's grace in a lab?

Blogger joe camel February 01, 2021 4:50 PM  

@16

Back then, scientists weren't receiving government subsidies to profit off tobacco taxes, so they could afford to tell the truth.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 01, 2021 4:56 PM  

eclecticmn wrote:BTW I took the horse paste ivermectin ...
I got the chinkypox, so I stopped worrying about it for myself. I got the horse paste for my kids. At least one has taken the horse wormer as a prophylactic, but after seeing how bad the disease isn't, I'm suggesting they get it and get it over with. They can take the horse wormer after they get sick, if they want to get over it faster. Three days and done for me wasn't really worth hurrying.

Blogger Homesteader February 01, 2021 5:17 PM  

Unknown wrote:

"I minored in history, and when doing my senior thesis I ran across the medieval warm period.

I started asking questions, most particularly why there has not been a single paper or book chapter on it after 1970. My advisor finally sat me down and told me you can't mention it because people would mistake the MWP as challenging the science on manmade global climate change."

My personal pet peeve.

The world output of energy related CO2 emissions is about 37 gigatons per year.

The US output is about 5 gigatons.
Chinese output, around 9 gigatons.

And! according to the UN's IPCC report, it requires about 1737 gigatons of CO2 to change the earth's temperature 1C.

So, if the entire US shut down tomorrow, it would only require 344 years to budge the thermometer 1C.

But, muh green initiative. Because science!

The stupid truly hurts, at times.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 01, 2021 6:38 PM  

"There are two ideas, science and scientism and the line between the two is blurry, if not completely interchangeable."

Scientism is a set of ritual observances and the trust of the adherents in the practitioners of the observances. Science is no more than the original method, though the term is used inaccurately, and often maliciously, to refer to the practitioners of the method, and the body of information produced by the practice of the method.

Blogger Punkindrublik February 01, 2021 8:19 PM  

Consensus = Demockracy = Soyence.

Blogger Anonoly February 01, 2021 9:21 PM  

the funny thing about engineering is that it succeeds by trial and error

Blogger Edjamacator February 01, 2021 9:53 PM  

Cary wrote:I got my pills from the link below, which took about 4 weeks to receive. Just checked and the paste is still widely available at all my local Tractor Supply stores. Do your own research at the links noted above. https://happyfamilypharm.com/

I'm sure others would be able to find out better than I can, but that site looks sketchy. Claims to be Canadian but with a name more closely resembling a Chinese restaurant. I looked it up and don't know if I'd trust it. Don't know how much I'd trust medicine from India, anyway, though.

Blogger Wiseagle February 01, 2021 10:50 PM  

I'm a chemist but am blessed to be in the world of industry. I don't have the luxury of the ivory tower and get to work with engineers to solve real problems in the real world. Success is not measured by getting government grants, but in getting customers to buy our products.

Blogger spacehabitats February 02, 2021 12:33 AM  

When I caught Covid-19 my PCP admitted me to the hospital and gave me Remdesivir. But asked to be discharged the next day so I could take the HCQ and zinc I had already stashed at home..
BTW,, the WHO et.al. are doing an even worse hatchet job on ivermectin which is showing itself to be a much better treatment than HCQ and is also dirt cheap.

Blogger OvergrownHobbit February 02, 2021 3:07 AM  

@81 Most people are using porous fabric face rags, which let virus paticles out. What slags up these soggy germ-bags are all the bacteria they've picked up that multiply on the damp warm inner surface.

Get the CCPherpes with a extras strength dose of pneumococcal bacteria, and here comes the Wuhan gurgling death.

Especially if, as Mme. Avalance pointed out, the docs are refusing to use Orange Man Bad treatments that might mitigate the harm.

Blogger SacrificialLamb February 02, 2021 6:25 AM  

@45. bw

Didn't the life time globalist HIV/AIDS actor Fauci note in 2005 that it works?

The CDC has been aware of the positive effects of Chloroquine (in regards to COVID), since at least 2005.....when Martin J. Vincent published a study in the Virology Journal, entitled "Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread.’" However, there's no money in it for the pharmaceutical industry, because Chloroquine is a GENERIC DRUG. That’s why the Pharmaceutical Industry's lobbyists have worked very hard to persuade governments that there will be no acceptable solution until a PATENTED vaccine is brought to the market. And who controls the Pharmaceutical Industry? The same parties who control the Rockefeller Foundation and the World Health Organization.

In other words, welcome to "Clown World".

Blogger Azure Amaranthine February 02, 2021 7:05 AM  

"the funny thing about engineering is that it succeeds by trial and error"

The funny thing about engineering is, Hammurabi says that engineers that err cease to be living. All pertinent law since is based on Hammurabi, and with the continuing presence of idiots who think that engineers practice the scientific method on the job rather than during their training or testing, it's little wonder why.

Blogger Gracie February 02, 2021 7:17 AM  

And once again your thesis that history is just series of conspiracies also applies. How long have we been told there are no "cures" for viruses? There is research going back to the 70s that theses drugs are anti-viral. I'm spacing on the other one that has gotten press and works great. So why has pharma been suppressing this info? My first thought, vaccine for the flu make them a ton of money.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 02, 2021 8:12 AM  

spacehabitats wrote:... the WHO et.al. are doing an even worse hatchet job on ivermectin which ... is also dirt cheap.
Cheaper than hydroxy, and probably even safer. There's no profit in cheap or in safe.

Blogger Harambe February 02, 2021 9:36 AM  

Why does the flu virus and its cousins mutate at such a fast rate, except for SARS-Cov-2 which is still the same as it was 1 year ago, and you only need to get vaccinated against most other viruses once in your entire life?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 02, 2021 11:13 AM  

Gracie wrote:So why has pharma been suppressing this info? My first thought, vaccine for the flu make them a ton of money.
Cure a patient, lose a customer. This is why the ``treatment'' for Type 2 diabetes is to eat lots of carbs, take lots of pills and keep the blood sugar very slowly rising: that ensures a profitable stream of problems for the two or three decades it takes the doc to kill you with his very profitable, very bad for you advice.

Blogger Cary February 02, 2021 12:16 PM  

@127

Edjamacatar,
Where do you think most of the drugs in your US pharmacy were manufactured?

Yes, that site and all the international pharmacies that sell without a prescription, like the one Electimin referenced, emphasize popular drugs sought without a prescription like Cialis and Viagra.

Pills manufactured by John Lee Pharmaceuticals, which is an India company. They shipped from Singapore. Took 4 weeks to arrive.

Blogger Gracie February 02, 2021 2:24 PM  

@136 No doubt.

If there are safe cheep drugs for most if not all viruses it becomes a lot more difficult to scary everyone with their latest bat soup lab creation.

https://aapsonline.org/can-covid-19-revolutionize-the-treatment-of-viral-diseases/

Blogger Edjamacator February 02, 2021 2:50 PM  

@137

Hey, if it works for you, great. I would love to have someplace trustworthy to get stuff from. I just looked up their name and found multiple sites prompting a warning about it, based in part on how it just started fairly recently, during Covid.
Did you get sick and actually take the Ivermectin from there or are you just holding onto some in case you catch Covid?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 02, 2021 4:13 PM  

Edjamacator wrote:Did you get sick and actually take the Ivermectin from there or are you just holding onto some in case you catch Covid?
Don't know about Cary, but I got sick and didn't bother with the horse wormer, one of my kids took a dose as a prophylactic, hasn't gotten sick yet. Odds are good that the Ivermectin in the horse wormer is made in the same Indian vats as the pills Cary bought. Six bucks for six adult doses makes the horse wormer a much better deal than the pills.

Blogger Edjamacator February 02, 2021 5:04 PM  

Ominous Cowherd wrote:Don't know about Cary, but I got sick and didn't bother with the horse wormer, one of my kids took a dose as a prophylactic, hasn't gotten sick yet. Odds are good that the Ivermectin in the horse wormer is made in the same Indian vats as the pills Cary bought. Six bucks for six adult doses makes the horse wormer a much better deal than the pills.

Yeah, I remember that. I bought a tube of it a day after reading your post about it. The pills are way more expensive, as you say. I haven't caught anything yet but figured I'd keep the horse stuff around just in case.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 02, 2021 5:29 PM  

That article somebody else mentioned seems to suggest that HCQ is broadly effective against viruses. There is a good chance that Ivermectin is, too.

Blogger MrNiceguy February 02, 2021 8:57 PM  


Safer than aspirin, to the point that it should probably be OTC.


In a lot of countries, it is. Or at least, was, before Orange Man Bad.

Blogger Cary February 02, 2021 10:11 PM  

I have both the pills and the horse paste on hand in case of illness. Yes, the paste is a much better value. Pills are primarily for ease of adjusting dosing if necessary, between my wife, our parents, and myself. If I were to get ill, I would request a script from the Dr, but I don't know if he would fill it. I don't want to be reliant on that.

For prophylaxis I am taking Zinc, Quercetin, D3, and C.

As for the concerns about India manufacturing, you should also know that they are widely using Ivermectin across India, and have lower death rates. See below:

https://trialsitenews.com/goa-game-changer-indian-states-health-authority-approves-distributes-ivermectin-doxycycline-to-treat-covid-19-as-prophylaxis/

https://principia-scientific.com/indias-miraculous-ivermectin-covid-treatment-is-only-3-per-person/

Blogger A-Train February 03, 2021 1:02 AM  

"Never trust science or scientists," the smart man said, posting scientific analysis to back up something he had previously said. "Oooh, ahhh," replied his smooth-brained acolytes.

Blogger Edjamacator February 03, 2021 1:13 PM  

Cary wrote:I have both the pills and the horse paste on hand in case of illness. Yes, the paste is a much better value. Pills are primarily for ease of adjusting dosing if necessary, between my wife, our parents, and myself.

What kind of doses are you taking? I'm taking 50,000 of Vit D a week in one pill, 50mg of Zinc every other day, and I'm just keeping a bottle of Quercetin and horse paste on hand in case. I have oranges for C, and whatever else in food, but I don't know how much that is realistically. And thanks for the links.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd February 03, 2021 2:25 PM  

For Ivermectin, take the same dose you would give a horse that weighs the same as you. Dose per kg is the same for humans and equines.

Blogger Enzo Gabin February 09, 2021 9:41 PM  

It was during my research on HIV/Herpes that I stumbled upon the Hiv/Herpes information; information which is quite easy to find when doing a search for STD on google. I was into conspiracy at the time thought of HIV/Herpes Cured' being a conspiracy was something Ignorance though,I found pretty interesting about herbal medicine. I asked questions about the Herbal cure's on official HIV/Herpes websites and I was banned for doing so by moderators who told me that I was parroting Hiv/Herpes propaganda. This reinforced my belief that there is a cure for Hiv/Herpes Then i found a lady from germany name Achima Abelard Dr Itua Cure her Hiv so I send him a mail about my situation then talk more about it and send me his herbal medicine I drank for two weeks.And today I'm Cured no Hiv/Herpes in my life,I searched for Hiv/Herpes groups to attempt to make contact with people in order to learn more about Hiv/Herpes Herbal Cure's I believed at this time that you with the same disease this information is helpful to you and I wanted to do the best I could to spread this information in the hopes of helping other people.That Dr Itua Herbal Medicine makes me believes there is a hope for people suffering from,Parkinson's,Alzheimer’s disease,Bechet’s disease,Crohn’s disease,Cushing’s disease,Heart failure,Multiple Sclerosis,Hypertension,Colo_Rectal Cancer,Lyme Disease,Blood Cancer,Brain Cancer,Breast Cancer,Lung Cancer,Kidney Cancer,Love Spell,psoriasis,Lottery Spell,disease,Schizophrenia,Cancer,Scoliosis,Fibromyalgia,Fluoroquinolone Toxicity Syndrome Fibrodysplasia Ossificans Progressiva.Infertility,Tach Disease ,Epilepsy ,Diabetes ,Coeliac disease,,Arthritis,Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis,Autism,Alzheimer's disease,Adrenocortical carcinoma.Asthma, (measles, tetanus, whooping cough, tuberculosis, polio and diphtheria)Allergic diseases.Parkinson's disease,Schizophrenia,Lung Cancer,Breast Cancer,Colo-Rectal Cancer,Blood Cancer,Prostate Cancer,siva.Fatal Familial Insomnia Factor V Leiden Mutation ,Epilepsy Dupuytren's disease,Desmoplastic small-round-cell tumor Diabetes ,Coeliac disease,Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease,Cerebral Amyloid Angiopathy, Ataxia,Arthritis,Amyotrophic Lateral Scoliosis,Fibromyalgia,Fluoroquinolone ToxicitySyndrome Fibrodysplasia Ossificans ProgresSclerosis,Seizures,Alzheimer's disease,Adrenocortical carcinoma.Asthma,Allergic diseases.Hiv_ Aids,Herpe ,Copd,Glaucoma., Cataracts,Macular degeneration,Cardiovascular disease,Lung disease.Enlarged prostate,Osteoporosis.
Dementia.Lung Cancer, Leukemia Lymphoma Cancer,Lung Mesothelioma Asbestos,
Ovarian Cervical Uterine Cancer,
Skin Cancer, Brain Tumor, ,Hiv_ Aids,Herpes,Inflammatory bowel disease ,Copd,Diabetes,Hepatitis,Lupus,I read about him online how he cure Tasha and Tara,Conley,Mckinney and many more suffring from all kind of disease so i contacted him . He's a herbal doctor with a unique heart of God, Contact Emal. ... drituaherbalcenter@gmail.com Phone or whatsapp..+2348149277967.

Blogger Carol Tata February 18, 2021 1:18 AM  

Does anyone still doubt natural herbs? I've seen the great importance of
natural supplements and the wonderful work they have done in people's
lives. I wonder why people still spend their money on surgery, injections
and drugs each time they are sick. Natural herbs can cure all kinds of
illness. My Herpes virus was totally reversed with natural herbs this year.
Earlier this year my sister who lives in New Delhi India Purchased HSV
herbal remedy from Dr Omola and he told her that his HSV herbal remedy only
takes five weeks to reverse HSV completely, which she didn’t’ believe, but
she had no choice than to purchase, because she knew COLD SORES was killing
me slowly. When I received the herbal remedy, I only used it for five
weeks, it was so shocking to see the outcome, all my cold sore disappeared
and my HERPES VIRUS was fully reversed. I know it is hard to believe but am
a living testimony, There is no harm in trying natural herbs supplements.
Contact Dr Omola for his herbal remedy today... Email;
dr.omolaherbalhome@gmail.com Call/Whatsapp +2348118116254 for more
information Thanks

Blogger Ryan Lisa March 02, 2021 9:25 AM  

My health was horrible before I decided to try the Protocol Of taking Dr. Omola pure herbal mixture. I felt there was no hope for my health and I was to try the Protocol, thinking it wouldn’t work because I have visited so many hospital but same result. However, I was convinced by a Instagram friend to try the herbal medicine because I wanted to get rid of Herpes virus. The herbal mixture that was given to me was really quick and easy to take, within 2 week I was fully cured from Herpes. The herbal medicine really work and I will like to share this great doctor contact with you all email him dr.omolaherbalhome@gmail.com or WhatsApp +2348118116254 you won't regret it, I promise.

Blogger Jolene gilman March 22, 2021 8:18 PM  


I am here to give my testimony about Dr Ebhota who helped me.. i want to inform the public how i was cured from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) by salami, i visited different hospital but they gave me list of drugs like Famvir, Zovirax, and Valtrex which is very expensive to treat the symptoms and never cured me. I was browsing through the Internet searching for remedy on HERPES and i saw comment of people talking about how Dr Ehbota cured them. when i contacted him he gave me hope and send a Herbal medicine to me that i took for just 2 weeks and it seriously worked for me, my HERPES result came out negative. I am so happy as i am sharing this testimony. My advice to you all who thinks that there is no cure for herpes that is Not true just contact him and get cure from Dr Ebhota healing herbal cure of all kinds of sickness you may have like
(1) CANCER,
(2) DIABETES,
(3) HIV&AIDS,
(4) URINARY TRACT INFECTION,
(5) CANCER,
(6) IMPOTENCE,
(7) BARENESS/INFERTILITY
(8) DIARRHEA
(9) ASTHMA
(10)SIMPLEX HERPES AND GENITAL
(11)COLD SORE
HERPES. he also cure my friend from cervical cancer Email: drebhotasoultion@gmail.com or whatsapp him on +2348089535482

Blogger Jolene gilman March 22, 2021 8:58 PM  


I am here to give my testimony about Dr Ebhota who helped me.. i want to inform the public how i was cured from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) by salami, i visited different hospital but they gave me list of drugs like Famvir, Zovirax, and Valtrex which is very expensive to treat the symptoms and never cured me. I was browsing through the Internet searching for remedy on HERPES and i saw comment of people talking about how Dr Ehbota cured them. when i contacted him he gave me hope and send a Herbal medicine to me that i took for just 2 weeks and it seriously worked for me, my HERPES result came out negative. I am so happy as i am sharing this testimony. My advice to you all who thinks that there is no cure for herpes that is Not true just contact him and get cure from Dr Ebhota healing herbal cure of all kinds of sickness you may have like
(1) CANCER,
(2) DIABETES,
(3) HIV&AIDS,
(4) URINARY TRACT INFECTION,
(5) CANCER,
(6) IMPOTENCE,
(7) BARENESS/INFERTILITY
(8) DIARRHEA
(9) ASTHMA
(10)SIMPLEX HERPES AND GENITAL
(11)COLD SORE
HERPES. he also cure my friend from cervical cancer Email: drebhotasoultion@gmail.com or whatsapp him on +2348089535482

Blogger Jolene gilman March 22, 2021 8:59 PM  


I am here to give my testimony about Dr Ebhota who helped me.. i want to inform the public how i was cured from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) by salami, i visited different hospital but they gave me list of drugs like Famvir, Zovirax, and Valtrex which is very expensive to treat the symptoms and never cured me. I was browsing through the Internet searching for remedy on HERPES and i saw comment of people talking about how Dr Ehbota cured them. when i contacted him he gave me hope and send a Herbal medicine to me that i took for just 2 weeks and it seriously worked for me, my HERPES result came out negative. I am so happy as i am sharing this testimony. My advice to you all who thinks that there is no cure for herpes that is Not true just contact him and get cure from Dr Ebhota healing herbal cure of all kinds of sickness you may have like
(1) CANCER,
(2) DIABETES,
(3) HIV&AIDS,
(4) URINARY TRACT INFECTION,
(5) CANCER,
(6) IMPOTENCE,
(7) BARENESS/INFERTILITY
(8) DIARRHEA
(9) ASTHMA
(10)SIMPLEX HERPES AND GENITAL
(11)COLD SORE
HERPES. he also cure my friend from cervical cancer Email: drebhotasoultion@gmail.com or whatsapp him on +2348089535482

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts