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Wednesday, March 03, 2021

Division is good

The good should not be unequally yoked with the wicked. The Christians in the United Methodist Church are on the verge of leaving their converged denomination.

Conservative leaders within the United Methodist Church unveiled plans Monday to form a new denomination, the Global Methodist Church, with a doctrine that does not recognize same-sex marriage.

The move could hasten the long-expected breakup of the UMC over differing approaches to LGBTQ inclusion. For now, the UMC is the largest mainline Protestant church in the U.S. and second only to the Southern Baptist Convention, an evangelical denomination, among all U.S. Protestant churches.

Due to the coronavirus pandemic, the UMC’s General Conference — at which the schism would be debated — has been postponed for two consecutive years, and is now scheduled to take place in Minneapolis starting in late August of 2022.

The Rev. Keith Boyette, a Methodist elder from Virginia who chairs the Global Methodist initiative, said he and his allies do not want to wait that long to formally leave the UMC. They have asked that the topic of schism be added to the tightly limited agenda of a special one-day General Conference to be conducted online May 8.

The name is, of course, a little ironic.... All the crocodile tears about unity and grace should be ignored.

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90 Comments:

Blogger Azimus March 03, 2021 4:06 PM  

Nate? Thoughts?

Blogger Azimus March 03, 2021 4:08 PM  

I grew up UMC and they were a little flaky but not terrible until the late 90's. Looking back, the lady pastor I tolerated for 6 months before leaving when I was 18 was probably gay. Heck she started her first sermon balling and explaining to us that she always showers with the door open because she was molested in the shower as a youth. I think 1/3 of the congregation never came back after that.

Blogger [Redacted] March 03, 2021 4:10 PM  

[Protesting Protestants Intensifies]

Blogger IreneAthena March 03, 2021 4:20 PM  

Good for them. I hope property stays with the individual congregations that are separating, instead of. being transferred to the UMC organization. If you want to see how a liberal UMC member REALLY feels about Black people, ask him about the traditional views of the UMC churches in Africa.

Blogger Nate March 03, 2021 4:24 PM  

The name "Global" is actually necessary... since it is in fact the based christians from Africa and Korea and other parts of asia that are allied with the southern US states. What remains of the memthodist church in the United states will be about 57 large old churches with 12 people attending on sunday morning... listening to a gay white man pretending to be a woman talk about black lives matter.

Blogger J8ke D March 03, 2021 4:26 PM  

It is “S”cientifically proven that “holy rolling” cures Chinese coronavirus. And AIDS.

Blogger I’ve Seen Things You People Wouldn’t Believe March 03, 2021 4:27 PM  

We were basically frozen out of our Methodist Church over the past 5 years. Removed from boards, ignored when we volunteer.

I think it started when the former pastor gave a sermon on the lynching of Emmitt Till and told us we had to "come to grips with our racist past as a nation".

After the service, I asked why I had to feel guilty about a man who was murdered before I was born by people I didn't know; additionally, I asked why racism was exempted from the cleansing of our sins by Jesus' blood.

That didn't go over too well.

Blogger UrbanBight March 03, 2021 4:32 PM  

I'm pretty sure that John Wesley would've torn down the first Methodist church with his bare hands, if he knew that this is what Methodism would become.

Blogger Nate March 03, 2021 4:32 PM  

The original plan was to throw all the homos and SJWs out. but the prevailing wisdom right now is that the name United Methodist is to tarnished to be salvaged. better to let them wallow in the mess they made. we built the organization. we can build a new one.

Blogger TechieDude March 03, 2021 4:33 PM  

I know more than a few methodists that converted to catholicism when their church went woke.

Blogger OneWingedShark March 03, 2021 4:34 PM  

Global Methodist Church
Global Methodist Church
GMC

Enginseers incoming.

Blogger ZaijiaN March 03, 2021 4:37 PM  

The SBC isn't far behind, but at least they're moving in the opposite direction; that is, their upcoming convention will have a vote to kick out several SBC churches that are performing gay wedding ceremonies and ordaining alphabet pastors, as well as affirm from each of the 6 related seminaries that they will not support nor teach CRT.

Blogger Crew March 03, 2021 4:39 PM  

Why wait until May 8?

Blogger Ingemar March 03, 2021 4:55 PM  

My mom drives me nuts with these appeals to unity and "attract more people" nonsense. She simply doesn't understand that a position can be Biblically sound/correct and unpopular.

Blogger carnaby March 03, 2021 4:57 PM  

We left the ICOC recently. All white guilt and women preaching on one side and a feeble religious response on the other. Now we have no formal church organization and it seems better that way. The church after all is simply the believers in Christ.

Blogger Jack Ward March 03, 2021 5:02 PM  

I was raised in the United Methodist Church and am pleased to see this happen. I would be even happier if the solid members leaving the fold can actually make it work. Have not been to a service in a loooog time and this may be the time to join back in. If I go back I can promise that, should the desidents start to slip their new moorings they will hear more from me they care to.
This I will keep close track of.

Blogger SciVo March 03, 2021 5:16 PM  

Adam Piggott knows what time it is: The Left versus Christianity

Blogger Daniel March 03, 2021 5:25 PM  

I still dont know why they cant toss the satanists out instead. Why let them have anything?

Blogger Jose Miguel March 03, 2021 5:30 PM  

The new GMC allows women ministers, so they'll last ten more years till being subverted again.

Blogger Ahuehuete March 03, 2021 5:37 PM  

Will the new denomination ...
Have female clergy?
Be pro feminist?
Be pro abortion?
Allow divorce?

Just wondering.

Blogger Cappuccinobear March 03, 2021 5:39 PM  

But isn't the name "global" a bit off-putting to the flat earthers?

Blogger Gon Freecs March 03, 2021 5:42 PM  

Globo-No-Homo

Blogger Pseudotsuga March 03, 2021 5:48 PM  

"Global" Methodists? What's wrong with being merely "national" methodists?

Blogger Silly but True March 03, 2021 5:58 PM  

This is cautionary tale of SJW cancer in action.

Conservative faction has majority of world wide conference thanks be to Africans & Koreans. Two years ago the solution then was for gays to leave. Somehow the gays managed to play a Reverse card.

I think it’s more the majority just wants to be done with them and will take whatever route is most expedient.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 03, 2021 5:58 PM  

"differing approaches to LGBTQ inclusion"

How about "No way in Hell!"?

Blogger Independent Baptist March 03, 2021 6:01 PM  

The UMC is paying $250k to "re-launch" a Methodist church in our area that has too many old people. They have gone so far as to telling the old people to stay away so they can bring in the younger crowd with purple hair.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/01/20/struggling-cottage-grove-church-asks-older-members-to-go-away

Blogger Beery Swine March 03, 2021 6:08 PM  

Always say no to the globohomo.

Blogger SirHamster March 03, 2021 6:11 PM  

Godspeed, Methodists.

Blogger Soap and Ham March 03, 2021 6:17 PM  

At some point you have to stay and fight instead of building a new viable host. The fight for the Catholic soul still rages because the faithful there believe that there is no salvation outside of it... Effectively the boats are burned at the shore and a long unpleasant war is expected.

I grew up in the UMC. It was a great church but very few friends who remained faithful stayed. I would rather see there be a real confrontation between good and evil than just handing over our tradition and heritage to the fire...

Blogger Wm Jas Tychonievich March 03, 2021 6:21 PM  

“It is heartbreaking when the Body of Christ fragments itself” — said the Protestant.

Blogger Macs March 03, 2021 6:38 PM  

These denominations were cool when it was traveling firebrands putting up tents all over the land and converting with a passion. As soon as the tents became permanent structures they started to lose the magic. It's ok though, we can get more tents and start the cycle again.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 03, 2021 6:45 PM  

I know more than a few methodists that converted to catholicism when their church went woke.

A lot of "sedevacantist" Catholics -- those who not only go to the old Mass in Latin but don't recognize the last six putative popes as valid due to their flat-out heresy -- are ex-Protestants. Perhaps because their emotional ties to the mainstream converged church are much weaker than they are for cradle Catholics, who tend to rationalize up the wazoo about how the "popes" can be heretics.

Conservative faction has majority of world wide conference thanks be to Africans & Koreans. Two years ago the solution then was for gays to leave. Somehow the gays managed to play a Reverse card.

It sounds exactly like the situation with the Republican Party. The vast majority of the base wants the SJWs kicked the h*ll out, but the elites with most of the actual power keep cutting deals with the SJWs, keeping them around, and selling out to them.

Blogger van helsing March 03, 2021 6:53 PM  

people have been leaving the UMC for decades. mine left over the UMC drive to financially support immivaders here and dictators abroad

Blogger Pathfinderlight March 03, 2021 6:58 PM  

Sounds to me like some churches are ripe for crusading. Deus vult, bitches!

Blogger buzzardist March 03, 2021 7:10 PM  

The defecting American churches are a small fraction of those who want to get away from the UMC. Most of the dissident churches are in Africa and Asia.

But this shows why the breakaway denomination will also fail. They still want a big, global denomination. They want the prestige, money, and power associated with it. Good for them in rejecting one sin, but how many others are they embracing more tightly?

The American churches would be better off as local congregations. There is nothing to stop them from maintaining contacts and relationships internationally. What are the reasons that they still want that global denomination? Hold their response up to the Bible, and see how many sin traps they risk falling into.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 03, 2021 7:12 PM  

Unity isn't Christian. Matthew 10:35, Luke 12:52. We must never compromise with the world, must never be united with the worldly. 2 Corinthians 6:15.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 03, 2021 7:14 PM  

Jose Miguel wrote:The new GMC allows women ministers,...
Already apostate, then.

Blogger Amethyst Dominica March 03, 2021 7:15 PM  

The churches don't realize that converging will spell their inevitable doom. The purpose of the church is to kick people in the pants and goad them towards more K-selected behavior. If it doesn't do that, then it's just a youth center/social club and a shitty one at that. Why would young people go to church when they can socialize and have fun in a place that doesn't force them to listen to boring sermons every Sunday?

Blogger SciVo March 03, 2021 7:23 PM  

@Daniel:
I still dont know why they cant toss the satanists out instead. Why let them have anything?

Because the Churchians are as innocent as serpents and as wise as doves.

Blogger Cwyn March 03, 2021 7:25 PM  

@10 Jumping from one cult into another is, sadly common. The way out is to leave them all and just stick with what the experts recorded in scripture. Catholics are not better than protestants. They're all infiltrated and warped.

@18 Because most of "Christianity" has idolized what's "their's" in Church. Because the paid staff is infiltrated by satan's goons. Because Good has become the enemy of Life.

Blogger Doktor Jeep March 03, 2021 7:28 PM  

As long as we are on this subject, what exactly is their method?

Blogger liberranter March 03, 2021 7:35 PM  

the Global Methodist Church

no, No, NO! PLEASE pick another name that doesn't discredit what you're trying to accomplish!

...the UMC’s General Conference — at which the schism would be debated — has been postponed for two consecutive years, and is now scheduled to take place in Minneapolis starting in late August of 2022.

That choice of location for their conference certainly doesn't speak highly of the UMC, but it's certainly not a surprising one.

Why should the breakaway sect attend this event at all? What is there to discuss with the UMC leadership? No minds will be charged on either side.

Blogger Unknown March 03, 2021 7:47 PM  

Ironic, they gave rise to the "Crystal Methodist" meme of progressive worship. Gay marriage is the least of our (((worries))) right now. Don't be a Goyische Kopf.

Blogger Andrea Daley Utronebel March 03, 2021 7:52 PM  

There is a huge difference between allowing sinners to enter the church. Church exists for all people, even murderers and worse. Jesus was about forgiveness.

So, if homo sinners want to join, they should be let in.

But celebrating homosexuality and associating marriage with homo fecal-penetration is a form of insanity. It say sin is the new holiness.

How sick.

Blogger Mamabear37 March 03, 2021 7:59 PM  

The word "Global" always makes my eye twitch, but I would be stoked if the UMC could split from the converged sjw garbage holding all the $ and pulling all the puppet strings. Not that I trust this "new denomination" any more than any other mainline denomination. But there are a lot of real Christians who are sick of the lies and heresy, and alienation. I'm praying we're able to make a difference.

Blogger Mamabear37 March 03, 2021 8:00 PM  

Imagine what his mother Susanna would've thought.

Blogger Mamabear37 March 03, 2021 8:02 PM  

@Ingemar And often times WILL BE! what's the meme- Biblical Christianity isn't popular, and popular Christianity isn't Biblical...? Something like that

Blogger Mamabear37 March 03, 2021 8:04 PM  

@Cappuccinobear Yes. Yes, it is. ;)

Blogger FacelessBro March 03, 2021 8:11 PM  

"She simply doesn't understand that a position can be Biblically sound/correct and unpopular."

Exhibit A on why women shouldn't be leaders in the church.

Blogger Shane Bradman March 03, 2021 8:12 PM  

When a man bends over backwards for the gays, his primary motivation is getting in on the action.

Blogger DrivingDissent March 03, 2021 8:15 PM  

"And whatever branch does not bare fruit".. The lord is still tending his orchard...

Blogger Jeff aka Orville March 03, 2021 8:31 PM  

Fond memories of growing up in a neighborhood Methodist church. My scout troop was based there too. My dad quit the Methodists over their anti-war stand during Viet Nam so I spent my teen years in a baptist church.

I hope they make a clean break and exclude women pastors and all the SJW BS.

Blogger Swamp Fox March 03, 2021 8:33 PM  

Had to leave our local UMC in 2019 due to the direction of leadership, and about half of the congregation. They tried to frame the debate as “progressive Christianity” verses “traditional Christianity”. I said no. This is Christianity vs blasphemous nonsense.

They didn’t like that to much.

Blogger Ryan G March 03, 2021 8:42 PM  

I was confirmed in the UMC but stopped going once they said homosexuality was OK and permitting women 'pastors' (Pastresses?). I'm still on the lookout for a new church but none I've been to seem to really be a good fit.

Blogger tdcommenter March 03, 2021 8:54 PM  

@37 Are the congregants led by someone who can take a kick in the pants, much less deliver a swift one?

Blogger Br'er Shaygetz March 03, 2021 8:59 PM  

I was a UMC youth pastor four a year back in '97. They refused to renew my contract because I wasn't taking them on ski trips and and other fun things. I told them the kids were entertained enough, that they needed good solid biblical teaching and the Gospel. The week after I left, the UMC allowed gay pastors at their annual conference.

Blogger paladin truth March 03, 2021 9:06 PM  

The very fact that the new faction is named Global says to me that they want to be inclusive. Give it a few years and they will be carbon copy of umc now

Blogger Azimus March 03, 2021 9:13 PM  

36. Ominous Cowherd March 03, 2021 7:12 PM
Unity isn't Christian. Matthew 10:35, Luke 12:52. We must never compromise with the world, must never be united with the worldly. 2 Corinthians 6:15.


Compromise is not a Christian virtue. The word is never used in the Bible - at least in the translations I am familiar with - NIV, NKJV, NASB, NET, KJV; I don't check the "let me use the vocabulary of a 9yr old" translations. Not only is the word not used, any time the concept is even mentioned, it is portrayed negatively and often disastrously. I go to a small non-denominational Bible chapel where everyone brings a well-used Sword every Sunday morning, evening, and Wednesday night, and there were audible gasps when I taught this one Sunday. Its not that they didn't believe me, it had never occurred to them that a word synonymous with peace in the language of the world was actually bad, even despised, in Scripture.

Blogger DJ | AMDG March 03, 2021 9:15 PM  

@buzzardist

Nate might be able to explain this more accurately but I believe that the UMC, although not creedal apostolic, still adhere to episcopal hierarchy. They have bishops that submit to one another follow a form of submission/authority. That could be why.

Blogger Azimus March 03, 2021 9:17 PM  

54. Ryan GMarch 03, 2021 8:42 PM
(Pastresses?)


I believe the word you're looking for is succubus

Blogger John Rockwell March 03, 2021 9:21 PM  

This is "Protestants bad" the article. Damn Protestants ruining everything.

Blogger John Rockwell March 03, 2021 9:23 PM  

Women clergy is a sign of unbelief. They don't actually care about what God declared as Right and Wrong.

Blogger Wood-burning_Bear March 03, 2021 9:30 PM  

You lost me at “she”.

Blogger Jon W March 03, 2021 9:48 PM  

Not the first time the Methodist church divided, probably wont be the last time.

Blogger machinephilosophy March 03, 2021 10:10 PM  

If God told any Christians to start government-registered collectives, I'm wondering why they didn't add those commands to the Bible.

Blogger DudeThatLovesProverbs March 03, 2021 10:34 PM  

The real Christians in the UMC should have left long ago, but it's good to finally see them really intend to split.

Even then, why wait? The foolishness and evil of the convergence in the UMC will only beget more foolishness and evil.

The leaders in the UMC justify the wicked and condemn the righteous, both things being an abomination to the Lord. Their approval of homosexuality and women pastors are only a portion of the wickedness now infesting the denomination. Having seen first hand the effects of their organizational politics, they would do well to quickly leave.

Blogger Southwester March 03, 2021 10:37 PM  

A lot of problems in the church come from Christians not following Matthew 18:15-17. All of those preaching heresy should be expelled from the church, not tolerated (unless they repent).

Blogger M.S. March 03, 2021 10:56 PM  

I made myself the appointed leftist scalp-taker at my parish. It's not really an issue for us at the moment, nearly all our regular parishioners are devout, traditional and on the right etc. but I am vigilant nonetheless and at the first sign of perversion, I'm there to fight them. I'll also up the ante by bringing up the evils of the Talmud, etc. in conversation. So far everyone I've talked to has been very receptive.

Blogger The Wraith March 03, 2021 11:24 PM  

@39: You owe me for the beer I shot out my nose. It's funny because it's true. :)

Blogger Matthew March 04, 2021 12:11 AM  

I'm in a similar boat, looking for a church that isn't converged is hard. It gives me hope to see that people are willing to take meaningful action so hopefully people like us will not have to look much longer.

Blogger Harambe March 04, 2021 2:28 AM  

I BET THEY HAVE REALLY GOOD COFFEE IN THE LOBBY THOUGH

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli March 04, 2021 2:45 AM  

Matthew wrote:looking for a church that isn't converged is hard.

It's really not. Try any ROCOR parish in America. Synod.com

Blogger Jeff in OR March 04, 2021 2:48 AM  

Having 'Global' in the name is good as it alludes to The Great Commission.

Additionally as one who was baptized and confirmed as a Lutheran I assuredly believe the new GMC will be as successful as the LCMS.

Blogger Solon March 04, 2021 2:56 AM  

"If the world has hated you, know that it hated me before you."

If the secular world wholeheartedly approves of your teachings... you fucked up.

Blogger Solon March 04, 2021 2:59 AM  

Yes, because casting off your elders and their traditional mooring and setting out into stormy seas is *definitely* a wise decision. /s

Blogger Ferdl March 04, 2021 3:40 AM  

If it is true that they continue with female pastors, then this split will be of no significance at all. There soon will be women among the pastors who will push the church in exactly the same direction as the gay pastors have done. And of course everything in the name of forgiveness and tolerance and unity and all the other cosy sounding excuses for satanistic heresy.

Blogger Shane Bradman March 04, 2021 3:55 AM  

The mistake the Methodists are making is announcing their plans. Don't announce your plans. Do as much as you can to purge the converged leadership, and go so far to the point that you could be "excommunicated". That's when you create your own group.

Blogger Black Bird March 04, 2021 3:56 AM  

If you don’t think God’s judgements aren’t coming think again. God is not MOCKED.

Blogger Nate March 04, 2021 7:44 AM  

Ryan G the UMC never said homosexuality was ok.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 04, 2021 8:12 AM  

Azimus wrote:... it had never occurred to them that a word synonymous with peace in the language of the world was actually bad, even despised, in Scripture.
Here's another fun one: ``... I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.'' Gates are defensive, not offensive. Since gates don't come marching against us, that's an indication that we should be on the attack against hell and evil. We are not only not to compromise with evil, we are to attack it.

Blogger Brian Peterson March 04, 2021 8:22 AM  

So they’ve got the discernment from the Bible to figure out homosexuality is unacceptable, but not the discernment that it also tells us there’s no such thing as the globe. Well, they still get an ‘attaboy’ for progress.

Blogger Didas Kalos March 04, 2021 8:27 AM  

@thechieDude. Well out of the frying pan into the fire. Low IQ I guess.

Blogger Star Tipper March 04, 2021 8:33 AM  

Newly exUMC here. The "Global" label is accurate and a direct slap at the UMC bureaucracy. It was the African and Asian delegations to the 2019 General Conference (the major rule and decision body of the UMC) that joined with the traditionalists in the US to push through the Traditional Plan. This plan reinforced church doctrine to reject single sex marriage and relationships. Like Trump's victory in 2016, this wasn't supposed to happen. The UMC bureaucracy and bishops have now pushed for a strung out separation process that they hope will gradually drive out the traditionalists in the US and let the left keep the property. This move by the traditionalists will speed that process considerably.

Blogger WestByGod Bear March 04, 2021 9:12 AM  

Southern Baptist Convention break up is next. It's already happening. Was a member of a great SBC church for years. Started seeing the greed and convergence appear in 2015. Got to the point where they wouldn't condemn a church leader after he got caught watching porn on site using a church computer. Just shipped him off to another state/church. Section broke off from the church and created a new one and it is thriving outside of the SBC. New church never closed during the Rona, was literally meeting in peoples yards. Best church I've ever been too. Real recognizes real. As the fake mega churches fall, the grassroots real christians who truly have faith are being rewarded for keeping the faith. God is good!

Blogger Dan Weston March 04, 2021 10:42 AM  

Grace allows for reconciliation after repentance. Without repentance, reconciliation isn't possible. The divergence is inevitable. How can two walk together except they be agreed?

Blogger Azimus March 04, 2021 7:43 PM  

@ Ominous Cowherd
"Gates of Hell"

Yes! Another guy preached on that exact point, that why I've made my pilgrim home there...

Blogger ButcherBear March 05, 2021 10:11 AM  

This is why the bible teaches a local independent church. When you have churches yoked up like these denominations are, the devil only has to corrupt the person at the top of the hierarchy. The devil is not omnipresent, he cant be everywhere at once. Denominations are dangerous, and will always end up promoting false doctrine and become wicked. I can't reccomend enough that people find an independent fundamental baptist church, that is King James only. If you have the wrong bible, you already have your foot in the door for false doctrine. It also doesn't help that these denominations don't do door to door soul winning.

Blogger kerdasi amaq March 05, 2021 2:01 PM  

Organised denominations are prone to infiltration by malicious, hypocritical actors who do not have the best interests of their parishioners at heart. I'd say that this is the main cause of all the vicious infighting that plagues Christianity.

Blogger Johnny March 06, 2021 2:21 AM  

>The Christians in the United Methodist Church are on the verge of leaving their converged denomination.

The breakaways are almost as converged as the UMC:

>On a new website launched Monday, the Global Methodist organizers said the new denomination would allow women to serve at all levels and seek a membership that is “ethnically and racially diverse.”

Blogger Dont Worry About Me March 06, 2021 5:11 PM  

The Enlightenment sparked idolatry as the rule rather than the exception. The worship of freedom and blood inspired the White Man's Burden, slavery, colonization, and has so thoroughly been rejected by the people Europeans attempted to civilize that they want to take what is theirs by migrating into their homelands.

If Christendom is ever to return, Christ must come first, who rejected the kingdoms of the world and told us to protect our families, go forth and multiply, and to fulfill the teachings of old by obeying God's Will but not falling for the sins that cost Israel His exclusive blessing.

If Jesus rejected the kingdoms of the world, then God Himself rejects mankind being capable of empire, for His Son chose not to rule over Man, and the offer was given by the prince of Lies. Babel was dismantled by division, as was Israel by the refusal to drive out the Canaanite or reject their false idols as Jeroboam did.

Perhaps there is more that needs to be questioned by Christians than simply our faith in our Lord and Savior. The Catholic Church is an international authority that ministers to all nations, and proclaims the Pontifex to be an authority on matters of worship. Is it even possible for Man to be able to minister to all nations? Has that kind of influence not been wielded for many of the wrongs of the last two thousand years?

It might be as fundamental to Christianity as it is to politics. Perhaps a national church is required, no matter how large or small the nation is, and they must deny direct authority by international bodies, but still favor relations with other Christian nations.

In this respect, the Protestant Reformation was unable to truly identify what was wrong with the Catholic Church. Just because they wanted to interpret Scripture how they like does not mean that they can create denominations at will that can extend beyond any one country's borders.

Jesus came to fulfill the teachings of old, not erase them. The wisdom of Israel's blessed nation is that if they had only obeyed our Lord, they would have received his blessing and maintained the covenant. Who knows what history would have unfolded if they did not choose to disobey our Lord several times over on such matters?

Perhaps Jesus' message was showing us the way for our world to be free of Satan - nations pursuing a future under our Lord's authority, working with other nations but not bound by duty or empire to them, in recognition that they are different people. There is truth to the nation-state. The empire is a lie told by both the dominator and the dominated. No one is weak enough to be ruled forever by anyone else, nor strong enough to impose their will upon any other nation.

Perhaps we must pursue the goal of a Blessed Nation of our Lord, with a national church and government, denying the world and the heathen entry, while expelling all enemies of our Lord within.

Better than being part of denominations of international authority and for what Jesus rejected to be available for us to be corrupted by.

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