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Monday, March 29, 2021

Mailvox: don't trust the experts

 An expert poses a conundrum by questioning the wisdom of other experts in other fields:

I wanted to thank you for posting that stuff about rethinking the RICE protocol for injuries. It's amazing how easily something like that becomes "wisdom," when it doesn't make sense from a practical Christian perspective, or even an evolutionary one. Why would the human body in all its glorious design require such strange interventions to function well? What did injured people do before they had easy access to ice and had the luxury of staying off their feet for extended periods of time? It makes no sense.

Anyway, not long after you posted the RICE thing, I tweaked my back pretty hard after a heavy deadlift session. I found that fifteen minutes of applied heat, followed by 30 minutes on the stationary bike and some stretching has made the pain totally manageable. Today it's all but gone. And, amazingly, I didn't have to give up any of my weight training over the last week. I think about all the people I've known who've had injuries like that go on and on and on after following RICE, and it was probably avoidable.

This whole thing reminds me of other ludicrous and destructive ideas endorsed by some authority, like the low-fat / high-carb nonsense that directly led to the obesity epidemic. As an "expert" myself, I find that if something that contradicts thousands of years of common sense is endorsed by an expert, I'm even less likely to trust it.

At this point, there is less than a 50 percent chance that any "expert knowledge" is correct. Your best bet is to ignore "the scientific consensus". 

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55 Comments:

Blogger Doom March 29, 2021 7:09 PM  

Hmm, fifty percent? You are being extremely generous. I'd go with studies which prove out. Which puts experts in the 3% to 5% range? Definitely in the academic, and probably bureaucratic arenas. Some experts can be relied upon, at least until dollar signs appear leading them otherwise, or when they are affirmative action hires, including most women.

How many doctors are pro-vax? How many pro-vax doctors are that way because they get such a huge bonus for high vaccination ratios? Money meet ethics? Goodbye ethics.

Blogger Pete March 29, 2021 7:12 PM  

It all boils down to control. Protocol thinking allows those in positions of authority who absolutely have no freaking clue about a particular topic (especially in medicine, but it plays out in everything else where self-appointed "experts" forcibly impose their ignorant opinions on the masses) think they can hide their cluelessness behind a jury-rigged emperor's new clothes shield of herd mentality/consensus.

Examples?
1. Humoral theory of medicine.
2. Galen's anatomical text claiming humans have a 5 lobed liver.
3. Stomach ulcers are caused by stress because no bacteria could POSSIBLY survive in the stomach long enough to cause ulcers.
4. NaHCO3 is useful and not harmful when coding a patient in cardiac arrest.
5. Facemasks stop the spread of viral respiratory infections like the Wuhan Coronavirus.
6. Lockdown quarantines of healthy, non-infected people stops the spread of infectious disease.
7. It is racist to require valid photo ID to vote, because for some reason minorities cannot figure out how to get or cannot afford photo IDs, but it is not racist to require "vaccination passports" to travel, go to work, or go out in public.
8. Getting the Wu Flu mRNA shots still classified as experimental by the FDA as "vaccines" does not mean you are protected from the virus sufficiently to not need facemasks, lockdowns and social distancing.

I think Orwell would be stunned at how much farther his double-think concept has been taken beyond his wildest nightmares.

Blogger CarpeOro March 29, 2021 7:20 PM  

Agreed. Considering how Anthropomorphic Climate Change skeptics are immediately called heretic and silenced by their so-called colleagues, the facts that Krugman and Obama have both won Nobel prizes, I've become rather doubtful that credentials without proof I see myself means much. I've been on the wrong end of some modern medicine and between that, the vaccine madness, and listening to my mother lament that doctors appear to not even read anything from their patients file beyond name and condition... doctors don't engender much confidence these days.

Blogger Kingly Gift March 29, 2021 7:44 PM  

Thousand of years of practice and experience also says that for a community to defeat a seasonal respiratory virus you stay away from sick people if you can, while they are sick. That's it, end of story, nothing else is needed or beneficial. Forget about the exaggerated myth of the Spanish flu and all the rest of it. We can't do anything to stop a virus that travels through the air and multiple animal species. If we could stop it, don't you think one of the thousands of communities that have existed throughout history would have figure out how? But no one ever did, because seasonal respiratory viruses are absolutely unstoppable. You might as well try to restrain the wind.

Blogger Peter March 29, 2021 7:48 PM  

Been lots of interesting stuff floating around about the role of voltage in healing. 7.35-7.5 pH is equivalent to about 25-50 millivolts. That difference sends a signal to the body that provokes the healing response.

Blogger SonyAD March 29, 2021 7:53 PM  

'Experts' almost all (certainly all the experts anyone is allowed to hear from) want the entire population, down to 6 month old babies, to take a chance with their health or lives by taking an essentially untested chemical concoction, or have that chance taken at their risk by their guardian or the 'government'. All to 'protect' them from a virus with a 0.1% IFR (or much less, being conservative here) for all age groups taken together and essentially 0% for minors.

So, take a chance with the lives or health of damn near 100% of the population, including babies, to, maybe, prolong the lives of a few quite elderly people for a few weeks, months, a year or two. Elderly people with probably severe vitamin deficiency (which the lockdowns exacerbate, in the case of Vitamin D) and comorbidities.

Take a chance on possibly ending entire nations, a chance of committing genocide or democide, all to keep some boomers alive a few more weeks to months. Boomers who would be much better served by vitamin supplement regimens (Vitamin C, D, Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium and Iodine), low carb, high fat and animal protein diets and exercise. In many countries, the median age of people dead from cobids is nearly as high or, in some cases, even higher than the life expectancy of the population of that country.

And people are going in and willingly taking the chemical concoctions. Hundreds of million already did. They're going in and taking them twice.

Weeks ago they started pumping out propaganda about booster shoots soon being needed. No one suspects anything. Because to suspect malicious or nefarious intent being behind such a large scale program, affecting billions of people, just blows people's minds. They can't fathom or accept such evil exists and is trying to have its way with billions of people under everyone's noses. The normalcy bias and the fear take over and blind people.

Even if you wilfully ignore clear signs of malicious intent, the risk of accidental genocide or democide, alone, should make anyone be against mass inoculation with the chemical cocktails. Never mind the internal e-mail correspondence which has come out which discussed concerns as to the significantly less than 100% percentage of RNA which makes it to cell ribosomes intact from the mRNA chemical cocktails.

All I can do is desperately try and warn everyone I know and haplessly watch as billions of dumb sheep are dooming themselves as well as the rest of us by willingly taking the concoctions, for once they will have achieved a majority who've taken the shots, they'll pull out all the remaining stops on the tyranny and apply massive coercion to the remaining refuseniks to get them to accept the stuff injected in to them and their kids too. That's if they don't pretend to regular authorise the chemical cocktails and make them compulsory, claiming they're now no longer covered by the Nuremberg Code, due to no longer being experimental, and force them on everyone.

They've already put the propaganda laying the ground work for that out weeks ago. Every moron that takes the shot is dooming not just themselves but people wise enough never to willingly do likewise, as well. Once a majority will have taken, the more people that take it, the more they'll increase the coercion on the dwindling remainder.

Blogger CM March 29, 2021 8:01 PM  

What does the heat do? Is it just relaxing muscle spasms so that stretching and movement are easier to accomplish in the injured state?

I periodically pull my back if I’ve been on my feet a lot and haven’t stretched out every night. I use pain relievers so I can stretch it out. If I can replace that with heat, I’d prefer it.

Blogger Warunicorn March 29, 2021 8:09 PM  

Kind of like how masks were supposed to magically rid us of Corona-chan if we just wore them for every second of every day of our lives. That one always floors me, just like the not-vaccine was supposed to promise us all a path back to normality. We saw that bullsh*t from a mile away. lol

Blogger S1AL March 29, 2021 8:24 PM  

Unmeasurable "expertise"... Isn't.

Blogger Axe March 29, 2021 8:41 PM  

Trusting science is on the verge of 'appeal to authority' most of the time anyway. I want to see 'science' in action. I want to see it verified and replicated with my own eyes. If I have to trust an authority, or consensus I'll take up a new religion.

Blogger Doc March 29, 2021 8:51 PM  

Years ago, doing army medicine, I coined a recovery term called dynamic rest. Heat, stretch, NSAID, and any alternative motion/exercise that didn't cause increased acute pain. Had really good results vs profile and rest. Got the idea from 2 places: NFL athletes quickly begin intense recovery therapies after surgery and the common sense: it only hurts when I move it, yet I constantly want to move it. Why is that? So stiffness, pain, immobility, and atrophy don't occur. Even did mild therapy for acute ACL tears. Immobilize, compress, rest and ice...WTF?

Blogger Cary March 29, 2021 8:54 PM  

What does the heat do? Is it just relaxing muscle spasms so that stretching and movement are easier to accomplish in the injured state?

The original post was about how ice and inactivity lengthen and work against healing. The underlying reasoning is because movement is necessary to clean up the debris of the injury through the lymphatic system. There’s a good explanation at the link below.

It’s more anti-ice and anti-inactivity than pro-heat. However, many in the comments mentioned anecdotally that they found heat helpful. From my own experience I would say that it’s something like you mentioned where the heat makes it comfortable enough to move which then helps with the healing.

https://squatuniversity.com/2020/03/23/dont-ice-walk-it-off/

Blogger PH March 29, 2021 8:54 PM  

For a bad back, epsom salt cream available on Amazon.

Blogger Doc March 29, 2021 8:57 PM  

Swelling is the body's attempt to bring healing fluids to the site. Too much is bad, like from a crush injury, but swelling and pain are not directly related. Heat increases blood flow to the area bringing oxygen and promoting healing. Also helps with stiffness, same way a hot tub soothes stiff muscles.

Blogger shadohand (akuma sock account# 799273 Matt Gaetz is all for the P.L.U.R. Life (Peace, Love, Unity and Republicanism) ) March 29, 2021 9:03 PM  

"I want to see it verified and replicated with my own eyes."

You may have Aphantasia. Seek Help!

Blogger Kettlebells are my friend March 29, 2021 9:14 PM  

Heat dilates blood vessels, allowing more blood flow to the injured area. It also affects the lymphatic system, helping it remove damaged cells and reduce inflammation.

Red light therapy works well. It is concentrated light with several specific wavelengths that penetrate deeply into a body.

Blogger Tallawampus March 29, 2021 9:21 PM  

On the first day of medical school they told us that half of everything they'd be teaching us would be wrong. They just didn't know which half.

That seems to have held up as true over the last 20 + years.

Blogger Shane Bradman March 29, 2021 9:29 PM  

Financial and economic experts can't tell the difference between debt and equity. Experts are stupid.

Blogger Noah B. March 29, 2021 9:48 PM  

I've never used ice for sprains or muscle pulls either but ACE bandanges have come in handy a few times. After all, when you sprain or pull something your immediate instinct is to grab the injured area and apply pressure. It's so automatic that most people probably don't even think about it when they do it.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 29, 2021 9:51 PM  

Simple example.
Every hurricane season as one is approaching the coast the TV "meteorologists" will keep showing and citing the latest official track, and not even note where you can clearly see the eye drifting off on a new heading on *their* radar. They may take 30 minutes or more to adjust.
They dont even note unofficially that it might be changing.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( LeMoron James loves knife murder ) March 29, 2021 9:58 PM  

i totally and completely believe the !IFLScience! that says i'm not contagious while i'm sitting cheek by jowl in a restaurant with 500 other people because i've got a glass of coke in my hand.

it's the normiefag variant of a 7 year old telling you that they're the wrong gender and you need to pay for their sex change.

"I'm not contagious because Fake and Gay Fauci says it's okay to take my mask off if I eat or drink something."

Blogger Guy Incognito March 29, 2021 10:24 PM  

That 50% figure is specifically referring to the reproducibility crisis in scientific studies.

Blogger D March 29, 2021 10:45 PM  

Experienced powerlifters know if you injure your back on a deadlift the best rehab is to keep deadlifting. Worst thing is to take time off and allow the injury to become chronic. I went from barely being able to get out of bed one morning back to my old PR in about a month. First workout was excruciating with only 25lb bumper plates, but after that the pain was dull and mild, and eventually totally gone.

Blogger Bigger Bunyip March 29, 2021 10:47 PM  

Great topic. The answer is nuance and skepticism of protocols, not to not trust the experts. As with anything there can be a wide variation in the skill level of experts, ie most experts aren't expert.

Omn this topic, in some cases ice is better and in others heat is better. In part it depends on whether it's muscle, joint, ligament, ligament etc. that is injured. RICE (rest ice compression elevation) works great for a sprained ankle. This has been shown repeatedly to be true - much shorter recovery times. This is very unlikely to work for a back spasm.

The issue is not "experts don't know anything" it's that protocols by definition are only true some of the time, but become institutionalized as rules, and then repeated without thought. Same for most fields.

Still on the body. The reason experts focus on quads and hamstrings is not that they are critically important, it is that they are easiest to get data on because they are easiest to record clear EMG results. Other muscles that are more important for say running fast or jumping high eg. the psoas or the adductor magnus are ignored because good lab readings are difficult to obtain, so "experts" don't know as much about them. The bias created is why some people can train forever and get much stronger and still can't run faster or jump higher.

Blogger kurt9 March 29, 2021 11:01 PM  

Doom wrote:Hmm, fifty percent? You are being extremely generous. I'd go with studies which prove out. Which puts experts in the 3% to 5% range? Definitely in the academic, and probably bureaucratic arenas. Some experts can be relied upon, at least until dollar signs appear leading them otherwise, or when they are affirmative action hires, including most women.

How many doctors are pro-vax? How many pro-vax doctors are that way because they get such a huge bonus for high vaccination ratios? Money meet ethics? Goodbye ethics.


90% of all published bio-medical research results cannot be replicated. Essentially ALL social "science" stuff cannot be replicated. Ditto for a lot of other trendy fields such as climate "science".

Blogger Poster Child March 29, 2021 11:17 PM  

And I often do.

Blogger Johnny March 29, 2021 11:20 PM  

@7 CM
>>I periodically pull my back if I’ve been on my feet a lot and haven’t stretched out every night. I use pain relievers so I can stretch it out. If I can replace that with heat, I’d prefer it.<<

They recommend cold for dealing with swelling, and I believe it does help for that. Otherwise, heat will increase blood flow to the area, and I believe that will help a joint to heal, provided you don't have a swelling issue. I very routinely deal with low level osteoarthritis issues by keeping the joint warm. Not for on the spot transitory pain relief, but for overall joint health.

If you "throw your back out," heat is apt to cause serious pain. It can swell up some of the tissues around the back. Unless you are getting actual spasms (and you will know it big time if you are), wait until prior to laying down and take some Ibuprofen if you need it. It will help your back settle out if you are having a serious problem.

Blogger p_q March 30, 2021 12:24 AM  

The low fat / high carb thing is ten times worse when you consider people who are calorie counting and losing weight. A low fat diet combined with significant weight loss is basically guaranteed gall stones. Fat signals your gallbladder to empty, a study found a high fat diet during weight loss could prevent gall stones.

Blogger Jack Amok March 30, 2021 1:08 AM  

What does the heat do? Is it just relaxing muscle spasms so that stretching and movement are easier to accomplish in the injured state?

Heat stimulates blood flow which brings more raw materials to do the repair with. So does motion for that matter. And massage.

Blogger R Webfoot March 30, 2021 1:20 AM  

I read about something similar, but far more dramatic, in the book on vaccine history I've been reading - but not specifically about vaccines.
Book is "Dissolving Illusions" by Suzanne Humphries and Roman Bystrianyi.

Chapter 12 is about polio, and mentions that the medical field at the time had no concept of "physical therapy..." in fact, paralysis victims were often "treated" with... plaster casts and splints.

Because if the problem is that a limb doesn't move, the treatment is to make darn sure it can't?

Nowadays, this is understood to be THE EXACT OPPOSITE of treatment, and a good way to ensure that the paralyzed limb atrophies and is permanently damaged.

So a lot of those horrible pictures weren't victims of polio per se, they were victims of contemporary received-wisdom polio treatments.

Fortunately, the vaccine cured polio - because after the vaccine, they redefined "polio" from meaning "pretty much any case of paralysis" to meaning "paralysis caused specifically by poliovirus." So there were far fewer polio cases (and more diagnoses of paralysis from other causes).

Blogger Harambe March 30, 2021 1:35 AM  

Doctors perform c-sections because there are fewer variables and fewer lawsuits. It's not about the mother and child. I wonder what other medical "best practice" came to be because of this.

Blogger SciVo March 30, 2021 3:24 AM  

@Doom:
Hmm, fifty percent? You are being extremely generous.

The number was not plucked out of thin air. There was a recent metastudy that attempted to replicate some of the most-cited of peer-reviewed articles published in respectable scientific journals. They confirmed the original study's results a little less than 50% of the time.

The profession is so horribly corrupt that the absolute gold standard of scientific studies are less reliable than a coin-flip.

Blogger Harambe March 30, 2021 3:56 AM  

CM wrote:What does the heat do? Is it just relaxing muscle spasms so that stretching and movement are easier to accomplish in the injured state?

I periodically pull my back if I’ve been on my feet a lot and haven’t stretched out every night. I use pain relievers so I can stretch it out. If I can replace that with heat, I’d prefer it.


Heat gets rid of inflammation. I don't know the mechanism, but that's what it does. I used to take a hot bath before doing my flexibility exercises (I did Taekwondo and flexibility is super important). It helped a lot. Again, I don't know WHY the muscles relax after heat, but I have personal experience that it does. Maybe it makes your tendons extra-stretchy or something?

Blogger DannyDanger March 30, 2021 6:38 AM  

The metrics for being an "expert" have become corrupted.

Instead of things like competency and experience being successful, we have degrees and credentials, many of which are obtained on a sliding financial scale.

As a result, we have a generation of rich people's retarded children telling us what the book that anyone else can read for themselves says, only with an air of authority about it.

Blogger Unknown March 30, 2021 6:49 AM  

Tallawampus wrote:On the first day of medical school they told us that half of everything they'd be teaching us would be wrong. They just didn't know which half.



Friend is a forensic psychologist. When he gets a bit too over the top violating the Goldwater rule on what is wrong with people in the public eye, I enjoy pointing out the replication crisis in psychology. Like half the core experiments are not reproducible and were probably faked. To be fair, alcohol is usually involved.

The other thing I used a lot when Trump was the target, is under the Euro ICD-10 the Soviet 'Sluggish Schizophrenia", which is the terrible disease requiring lifetime imprisonments for drug treatment, the main symptom is criticizing the party.

Then there is the Chinese version.

Then I ask what changed between the DSM-IV and V, and why everyone on the right now has Borderline Personality Disorder, when it never existed 15 years ago.

Blogger Avalanche March 30, 2021 7:39 AM  

@27 "They recommend cold for dealing with swelling, and I believe it does help for that. Otherwise, heat will increase blood flow to the area,"

Did you not read Vox's post? "They recommend" is generally reason enough to NOT do whatever they are claiming!

"Swelling" is indeed caused by the body's 'emergency teams' rushing to the site of an 'accident.' A major PART of their job is to take AWAY the debris of the accident to allow them to work on healing and rebuilding. ICE restricts this removal of debris.

Not sure if conclusive studies are done on alternating heat and cold: logic would imply -- but NOT assure -- that the alternation might provide a 'pumping' action of opening and closing the 'routes' into and out of the 'accident' area.

It may also be the case that gentle MOVING, not immobilizing and resting, provides a more Nature-al removal of debris and arrival of 'help.'

Nonetheless -- "They recommend" is almost always the worst basis for any decisions!

Blogger Thomas Bateman March 30, 2021 8:09 AM  

@25 - I work in the social field and hate that it's called social science. The methods of the physical sciences don't belong in the social studies. Praxeology, theology, and philosophy are sufficient in most cases. In fact, I think that's what most social studies papers do. They use the scientific method to buttress their (awful) moralizing, philosophizing, and deductions. They need the gravitas of baffling scientody to confound the reader into disbelieving his own common sense.

When I counsel, it's more often to get rid of indoctrinated nonsense than anything.

Blogger Dave March 30, 2021 8:26 AM  

The "the scientific consensus" is really the democratic consensus. Politics not science.

Blogger Lionillion March 30, 2021 8:49 AM  

Most modern medicine and physiotherapy etc is based around standard treatments.
Standard treatments, if they aren’t plain wrong, are often semi-obsolete or obsolete due to there being a lag in "best knowledge".
Corruption, stupidity and incompetence aside, if there is one or just a few awesome studies saying that RICE is not something you want to apply universally to a sprain, and a ton of superficially good but ultimately flawed studies saying RICE is good, the consensus is going to be "RICE good".
Therefore, there has to be many good studies before the "best knowledge" can, hopefully, start to shift. The rate of the shift is of course going to be strongly affected by egos and financial interests.


Standard treatments (ie treatment protocols) do not as a rule make any particular allowances for variations in the needs of the patient, context, or whatever.
The "good" thing with this is that they require less understanding from the operator, and so a treatment can be made more available.
The bad thing is pretty much the same. The operators applying standard treatments do not truly understand what and why they are doing things, and the potential drawbacks of that are obvious.
Also, once a protocol is taught to someone who isn't a specialist, they could well be using that same protocol 30 years after it became obsolete. It may even have been detrimental from the start.


RICE as a standard treatment for, say, any and all ankle sprains, is not a particularly good idea, especially if the duration isn't very short. There are different types of sprains and different severity grades of them, and treatment and rehab usually isn't trivial. Approx. 70% of people who sprain their ankle's end up with residual symptoms, _often_ lasting years.
The most recent research (of decent quality) I've read on the treatment of ankle sprains, excepting very severe sprains to some extent, indicate that to avoid for example chronic ankle instability (of which there are different types), the most important thing you can do is to get the joint moving as soon as possible. This has some to do with tissue healing, but more still to do with neuromuscular function.
Here's the nuance: If your ankle is like a football or the pain really bad, then you might not be able to move it.
Using ice or cold spray just to be able to get some movement and proprioceptive feedback going might be useful. Some bracing or compression might be useful to minimize the risk of chronic lengthening of ligaments, but complete immobilisation is, as a general rule, dumb, because you want movement ASAP.


During the healing period, you don't want to avoid all inflammation, but you do want to avoid chronic inflammation.
You don't want to avoid movement, but you do want to avoid re-damaging healing tissues.
Short term inflammation is good. Movement is necessary to flush the injured area so as to avoid chronic inflammation, to strengthen healing tissues and to allow the proprioceptive system to reset.


Heat increases chemical reaction rates and so speeds up acute inflammation, which is basically the same as healing. Heat also helps dilate blood vessel and increases elasticity of tissues. It, like cold, can decrease pain, but since it does the previously mentioned things, it can also increase swelling.


So, if swelling isn't a problem, apply heat and make sure to get some movement in.
If you need to move (rehab or whatever), and swelling IS a problem, go ahead and apply some cold, just to numb things and get some movement going. Apply heat afterwards to increase tissue healing rates again. Also, don’t go to a GP, they are completely useless for anything musculoskeletal 100% of the time. Go to a sportsphysio. Also, don’t neglect manual therapies like joint mobilization/manipulation and soft tissue treatments. Those really help.

Blogger Mamabear37 March 30, 2021 8:56 AM  

I gave up on doctors knowing anything when I was better read in medical journals than the OB trying to cite flu related maternal death stats to terrify me into taking a flu shot while prrgnant...or at all. I refuted that spiel pretty quickly. People just need to learn 1) they have access to the same journal articles for reading as their physicians 2) they can and should advocate for themselves because no one else will 3) your doctor likely doesn't care about you beyond the 15 minutes they spend with you in a given appointment and were it not for your chart, isn't even likely to remember your name.

Blogger Crew March 30, 2021 9:06 AM  

Looks like the experts were wrong about the vaccine as well.

2,050 dead to 3/19:

https://medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=CAT&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19

Blogger Newscaper312 March 30, 2021 9:20 AM  

Other than "watch your form", anybody have personal experience based tips on deadlift, or perhaps variations or approx equivalent exercise for someone whos had lower back problems in the past?
It has been years since it has "gone out" w a bulging disc, but Im cautious. I will do back squats w modest weight going low, but have been chicken about the deadlift.

Blogger Thomas Bateman March 30, 2021 10:10 AM  

@42 Dumbbell Romanian dead-lifts are my go to when I have a back issue; it stretches out the hamstrings and demands use of your glutes. Also, the weight is light. If there is an imbalance, the single leg variation is great too.

Blogger Balam March 30, 2021 10:12 AM  

@Newscaper
I threw out my back doing deadlifts and had back problems even sleeping until...I got a hammock. Look around and chronic back pain sufferers all rave about it. For a ~$35 hammock (brazilian style), $10 wall mounts and 1/2 hour of installation it's worth a try. Even sleeping in it one night a week is therapeutic. After trying out hundreds to thousands of dollars on beds a cheap hammock was the best sleep and recovery after all.

Otherwise raised deadlifts -> Romanian deadlift help too. Depending on how tall you are, decreasing how much you squat over to grip the bar can help reduce back vulnerability. A lot of people nowadays are saying it's the standing portion to extension of the deadlift that gives most of the benefits.

Blogger Kettlebells are my friend March 30, 2021 10:26 AM  

Andy Bolton, one the kings of deadlifts, hurt his back. He used kettlebells to rehab. His book, co-authored with Pavel Tatsouline, explains how he used kettlebells for strength.

They are essentially the same movement, being based on a hip hinge. Check out Strong First for kettlebell info.

Blogger Newscaper312 March 30, 2021 10:38 AM  

Thanks for the tips.
Back is fine now, so concern is not recovery or workaround, but prevention.
Will def look at raised/Romanian.

Blogger Akulkis March 30, 2021 12:04 PM  

>> As an "expert" myself, I find that if something that contradicts thousands of years of common sense is endorsed by an expert

This is the Boomers' biggest of all sins -- decrying and eliminating from public policy, and public conversation ANYTHING based upon common sense obtained through THOUSANDS of years of civilizational development, treating their own culture (and ours) as nothing more intricate than, and noore fragile than Lego blocks.

The few good Boomers who I have known were all military, most Vietnam veterans. They're the only ones who passed on knowledge out of a sense of obligation to those younger than themselves.

Blogger Akulkis March 30, 2021 12:09 PM  

>> What does the heat do? Is it just relaxing muscle spasms so that stretching and movement are easier to accomplish in the injured state?

Mild heat improves blood circulation.

Infrared radiation therapy is the exact opposite of RICE. And it's getting excellent, rapid healing results, which are beyond what proponents of the RICE protocol for injuries claim the body is even capable of under any circumstances.

Blogger Darren March 30, 2021 12:49 PM  

Out of curiosity I did a quick search of VP...

https://voxday.blogspot.com/search?q=%22trust+the+experts%22

MONDAY, MARCH 29, 2021
Mailvox: don't trust the experts

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2019
Never trust the experts

TUESDAY, MARCH 15, 2011
Never trust the experts

As you often say, "It's not complicated." (And yet so many refuse to learn from what you so frequently repeat...)

Thank you for your continued service to huMANity, sir.

Blogger Canada78Bear March 30, 2021 2:49 PM  

Any time the experts require FAITH in order for the science to back them it is false. Science is the observed and measurable without exception.
You cannot have 1/3 or more disagreement and for it to be true. Especially in the face of examples of contradiction.

That feeling of "that doesn't sound right" is too often correct in sniffing out the BS.

Blogger map March 30, 2021 3:05 PM  

Vox has brought up the "strategic lie" in the context of Ben Shapiro. 98% of what a person says may be true, but the strategic lie is designed to undo the truth of that 98%.

I'm convinced that most learned fields have strategic lies embedded into them, the lies that undo the rest of the field.

1) Economics: Free Trade and the Random Walk.

2) Physics: Dark Matter.

3) Medicine: Vaccines.

The ulterior motive of these lies is to misdirect and uninform the public, so that manipulation is easier to accomplish.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 31, 2021 8:03 AM  

R Webfoot wrote:Fortunately, the vaccine cured polio - because after the vaccine, they redefined "polio" from meaning "pretty much any case of paralysis" to meaning "paralysis caused specifically by poliovirus."
Since the vaccine ``cured'' polio, doctors know better than to look for it, and so their first assumption is that pretty much any case of paralysis is pretty much anything else. Even paralysis caused specifically by poliovirus might be attributed to anything else.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd March 31, 2021 8:04 AM  

Harambe wrote:Doctors perform c-sections because there are fewer variables and fewer lawsuits. It's not about the mother and child. I wonder what other medical "best practice" came to be because of this.Most? Certainly no more than all.

Blogger Didas Kalos March 31, 2021 8:39 AM  

Don't trust Gene Therapy experts either. mRNA may permanently alter DNA.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/03/31/covid-vaccine-software-update.aspx?ui=0d2ecb8848f27fc050d3d9e0c9611757e53fd53c4e129043f3274821a996e611&sd=20090720&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1HL&cid=20210331_HL2&mid=DM845007&rid=1120974157

Blogger spacehabitats March 31, 2021 5:23 PM  

For what it's worth I was never taught and never told my patients that icing would facilitate the healing process. In fact, the whole RICE protocol was never meant to be about anything but easing the patient's pain during the first 24 hours (unless you include bracing or taping under "compression"). Pain relief, like pain, is very subjective and may be more substantial for some people. But there is no question that elevating a swollen and throbbing ankle will help it to hurt less for most patients. And if it doesn't happen to help you, I think that is pretty slim evidence for discounting half of medical science.

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