Sunday, April 18, 2021

Mailvox: no, I really don't

 A reminder: please do not EVER ask me for sources. I will not provide them and I will delete your comment requesting them. I am not interested in providing sources on demand, and I do not care in the slightest if you decide to ignore what I say because I will not provide sources to you on demand.

I've been doing this since 2003. And one thing I have observed over the years not one single person who didn't believe the facts I cited and demanded sources in order to confirm that I was relaying the information correctly has ever subsequently changed his position as a result of being provided with an accurate source that states precisely what I said it did. 

Furthermore, the instinctive demand for sources is a strong, though not reliable, indicator of gamma. Yes, there is occasionally the rare individual who actually intends to examine the source in order to do his own analysis, but such individuals are usually inclined to simply resort to a search engine rather than ask someone else for a hyperlink to a readily available URL or PDF file.

I don't provide sources for the same reason I don't provide explanations anymore: providing either is merely viewed as an invitation to argue over the source or the explanation. Since I'm not interested in doing that, I'm shutting down the whole process before it starts. This is a blog, not a science journal, what I write are opinions, hypotheses, and logical conclusions, not scientific papers, and I am under no obligation to undergo any peer review process here.

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Blogger JD Curtis April 18, 2021 2:02 PM  

Step 1: immediately move to discredit the source, no matter the cost..

Blogger Worstpersonintheworld April 18, 2021 2:05 PM  

Right on brother. Research is just that, if someone is so inclined, they seek out more information

Blogger Dilbert19 April 18, 2021 2:11 PM  

Bravo. Part of the problem is people no longer think they need to do their own research. This info is readily available if you use search engines that are not provided by Alphabet or Microsoft.

Blogger bw April 18, 2021 2:15 PM  

I've been doing this since 2003.


Blogger Harambe April 18, 2021 2:17 PM  

Do you have any peer reviewed studies that prove this is a blog and not a science journal?

Blogger SurfingUSA April 18, 2021 2:21 PM  

100%, and I will link to this entry from now on whenever someone asks for a link to a fact that I know from wide and careful reading and research.

Blogger IAMSpartacus0000 April 18, 2021 2:24 PM  

He if the MSM can try to silence a sitting President by using "Anonymous sources" i would think an opinion blog would be given at least that much leeway.

Besides, you can pretty much copy a sentence from any of Blog post and put it in google or duckduckgo and find the source.

VD doesn't owe us anything.

Blogger jsmalone1 April 18, 2021 2:25 PM  

Great response/ position. I never explain nor defend my opinions or statements of fact.

Blogger Rigel Kent April 18, 2021 2:42 PM  

I have to admit to a certain morbid curiosity over just how obnoxious the most recent request was that prompted this.

Blogger Rick April 18, 2021 2:46 PM  

I swear I was just saying to myself today how I actually like when you don’t link a source.
It’s actually a courtesy; you saved me the trouble of reading some long dreadful, ad infested thing, and just provided the money-quote. The meat.
SDL is kind.
The dood shoulda thanked you.

Blogger Apollyon April 18, 2021 2:53 PM  

For those so inclined, sources are easily located. Not hard.

Blogger Bernard Korzeniewicz April 18, 2021 2:57 PM  

Pity, sometimes your off hand data rea so mind blowing I would love to look deeper into them.
But it is your blog and your rules.

Blogger GammaCatch April 18, 2021 3:02 PM  

Being told to endlessly cite every bit of knowledge is part of the Leftist scheme. It's not possible, it's not reasonable, and it is just another way to shut people up.

Blogger Shane Bradman April 18, 2021 3:15 PM  

When talking with memtally retarded atheists, I've been asked to provide sources for proof of Christ's existence, and the Holy Bible, which is a remarkably accurate historical document written by persons who knew Christ personally or knew those who knew Christ personally, which has the most extant copies of anything of the time, even hundreds of years beforehand and afterwards, is not sufficient to them because it wasn't written by a "reputable news organisation". I highly support not sharing sources to autistic manchildren. The mere act of asking for a source frustrates me because it shows a total lack of trust in what I'm saying.

Blogger CynicalMan April 18, 2021 3:18 PM  

I am one who has recently requested a source for some of the data you have posted. I had not made these requests because I doubted the numbers you posted, rather I was wanting to forward to others the data you refer to and know that those to whom I would forward would ask for a source other than myself.


Blogger YehudaL April 18, 2021 3:19 PM  

"Furthermore, the instinctive demand for sources is a strong, though not reliable, indicator of gamma"

Sou... um, never mind

Blogger Ana Milan April 18, 2021 3:21 PM  

Absolutely with you on this.

Blogger Br1cht April 18, 2021 3:24 PM  

Ave Imperator!

A very Voxian diatribe to warm the soul in these times of the undomesticated Spergbergs.

Blogger Azimus April 18, 2021 3:24 PM  

The only time I ever ask for the source is so I can check something myself before asking a stupid question...

Blogger UrbanBight April 18, 2021 3:26 PM  

Considering the fact that, most people use that excuse to say the source doesn't fit their A Priori standards so they can hold onto their approved preconceptions.

Blogger Pathfinderlight April 18, 2021 3:35 PM  

This reminds me of the time a leftist demanded I show sources for my personal opinion expressed in YouTube comments. The guy decided that a Google search was a waste of his time. He wanted a link to a source, then insulted me about not being able to provide one while incorrectly providing one himself.

It was game on. I wanted to crush him mostly as an exercise in logic and reason, and to aid in any reader of our exchange. So I learned the correct way to cite both online encyclopedias and YT videos down to the correct section. Then I explained the historical context in detail. Then I explained which parts of my previous statements were my own opinion, so therefore had no source. Then I showed which parts of his counterpoints had misrepresented what I was trying to articulate.

After all this, the next part of the exchange was him backpedaling, saying that there was some king of "misunderstanding". Nothing about me making an interesting point; he didn't even attempt to interact with my main idea. So, I explained publicly about how he was badgering for "sources" to try and dismiss the arguments of others.

The whole process felt good, especially as he was being crushed, but I wouldn't risk someone's livelihood or safety to make a similar point. It's just stupid.

Blogger Beau April 18, 2021 3:39 PM  

Please provide the source for the inscription of the Decalogue.

Blogger Unknown April 18, 2021 3:40 PM  

Couldn't agree more. When I read your content and then I find I have those questions, it's my responsibility to put the time in and find/analyze it for myself. It's work that's valuable, as I learn about how difficult it can be to get basic numbers (filtered by scientism mumbo jumbo), and then helps me see for myself.

Blogger Paulito April 18, 2021 3:53 PM  

@15 But you didn't want the information badly enough to do a simple search for it? One that would have taken less time than posting the request for the source? Please forgive me for not believing you.

Blogger Phelps April 18, 2021 3:56 PM  

The same people demand sources from us defended Michael Mann refusing to turn over his source data to “deniers.”

Blogger C April 18, 2021 3:59 PM  

Was your mailer someone from the YouTube skeptics community? The tac was thrown a lot there before being spread to other social discourses.

Blogger Kevin Smith April 18, 2021 4:03 PM  

But I read Richard Dawkins and now I am science -- I am THE science

Blogger Steve Samson April 18, 2021 4:10 PM  

I was completely unaware that this was a rule, but I'd never have asked, because I've been reading long enough to know that on the rare occasion that the SDL is wrong, he's honourable enough to admit it.

Blogger Andy April 18, 2021 4:21 PM  

A friendly reminder to commenters that shutting the hell up is not only an option on the table, but it's probably your best option in most situations.

"Saying nothing will improve my reputation and standing with people?"
It's more likely than you think!

Blogger Unknownsailor April 18, 2021 4:23 PM  

It is possible that someone asking for sources is asking so they can use it elsewhere. I've taken links you cited for a blog entry elsewhere on the internet before.

That being said, it is your prerogative to cite a source, or not, so we'll just have to deal with it if you don't publish it.

Blogger MATT April 18, 2021 4:25 PM  

99% of the time it takes 2 seconds to find it on google anyway. Theyre just being schmucks

Blogger Chris Lopes April 18, 2021 4:26 PM  


Blogger dienw April 18, 2021 4:30 PM  

I finally told one inquisitor that I do not walk around with a bibliography and to knock it off.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare April 18, 2021 4:31 PM  

It's easy enough to copy and paste quotes into search engines. Sometimes it doesn't work, but that's rare.

Blogger Elder Son April 18, 2021 4:34 PM  

The Elder Son self-help guide to sources.

Search-bar: What is a search bar?

Search-bar: Looking for sources.

Search-bar: How to find sources.

Search-bar: Types of sources.

Search-bar: Deciding whether a source is credible.

Search-bar: How do I know if my sources are credible/reliable?

Search-bar: Is the main stream media a reliable source?

Search-bar: Can you trust google?

Search-bar: Why am I lazy?

Search-bar: How to tell the gender of a earth worm.

Blogger Canadian Warlord April 18, 2021 4:39 PM  

The lamestream media listed 'sources':
- "Sources say"
- "Someone close to the situation"
- "Statement from an unnamed government official"

Why is it up to Vox to identify sources in this context? I'm stupefied by the apparent standards or requirements people have for any alternative media - when they grant a free pass to the Jew York Times and the CIAmazon Washington Post. James Corbett and James Pilato list all their sources and the normies still call it "conspiracy stuff."

Fuck em. They're the walking dead and should be treated as such. I've been turning away from in-person woke pronouncements and bold statements about overpopulation and the constant holo-hoax guilt barrage for 15+ years. Not just rando dipshits at parties, this has included roomates and girlfriends and people in my work/social circle. 'Normal opinion' in modern times is approaching clinical brain death.

Blogger dienw April 18, 2021 4:41 PM  

JD Curtis wrote:Step 1: immediately move to discredit the source, no matter the cost..

True, the inquisitor isn't interested in the truth;he just wants to smear the source: the most common smear in the past twenty years is along the lines of if it is on the internet it isn't true; of course the inquisitor then goes on to give his source as the NYT.

Blogger Dwayne Thundergrit April 18, 2021 4:46 PM  

If the sort of folks who ask for sources actually cross checked them then over half of all "peer reviewed" research papers wouldn't be the lies, unpronounceable experiments, and hollow SJW nonsense they have regularly been shown to be.

Blogger Jon April 18, 2021 4:48 PM  

for sensitive sources? Of course, saying that you regularly provide links to articles you are citing, which I am grateful for

Blogger Peabody April 18, 2021 4:53 PM  

Doing the research to find the numbers I saw in a Vox Day WND column was my first dose of the Red Pill. Reading this blog was my second. I started learning how to think for myself. Alpha Game Plan was another. I owe Vox a greater debt than I can ever repay.

Blogger NewTunesForOldLogos April 18, 2021 4:58 PM  

If the Dark Lord wishes to provide sources, he will. If he does not wish it, he will not. Either way, who can demand something so trivial from a Dark Lord?

Blogger DYOR April 18, 2021 5:02 PM  

Do your own research is my motto.

Blogger Silly but True April 18, 2021 5:03 PM  

If only there was an anon or crowdsourced internet social media insider who relayed factual observations about misinformation that was peddled by the swamp and the swamp’s media co-conspirators who also encouraged people to seek the truth.

Blogger Worstpersonintheworld April 18, 2021 5:04 PM  

Leftist giving it a read, I hope. Baby steps

Blogger Crush Limbraw April 18, 2021 5:06 PM  

Spoon feeding is for infants - Hebrews 5:11-14 - going the extra step is where growing into maturity begins......and never ends!

Blogger Coroña DeNier April 18, 2021 5:08 PM  

They couldn’t put it on the internet if it weren’t true.

Blogger Ska_Boss April 18, 2021 5:11 PM  

13% of the population commits 50% of violent crime in the US. Source: FBI. Guess the ethnicity.

Blogger Bryce April 18, 2021 5:16 PM  

With the state of the peer review system, I'd be highly suspect of any such study. Their findings might lead me to think this is some sort of art exhibit.

Blogger Arthur Isaac April 18, 2021 5:18 PM  

I'm not a research assistant and it isn't my job to educate the ignorant. 95% of the time they just want to derail and are more than willing to start quibbling over any provided resources anyway. The next move is to say that you interpreted the source incorrectly and/or discrediting the source. It's not a good faith inquiry.

Blogger James Dixon April 18, 2021 5:19 PM  

The correct way to ask Vox for sources: Vox, I'd like to do some more reading on this subject. Do you have any resources you'd recommend?

Blogger Nate73 April 18, 2021 5:20 PM  

Google is still serviceable enough that I can usually find the source by copy/paste then adding "" around it. It's the only thing propping up their company after all.

Blogger Seth S April 18, 2021 5:21 PM  

I work in sales. This is totally analogous to when a prospect asks for references of my work. They never even contact them when I go through the trouble of contacting and providing them.

Blogger James Dixon April 18, 2021 5:23 PM  

I remember dh once asked me for a source on my noting the poll results from some previous elections. I told him I had lived through those elections and seen the polls and the actual election results. Yes, your personal recollections of events is a valid (if sometimes unreliable) source.

Blogger captainofthegate April 18, 2021 5:25 PM  

99.9% of our day we function on belief. That words are true, that roads lead on, that our parents love us. Demanding proof every step is highly disfunctional. Faith is part of being a person.

Blogger Glen Sprigg April 18, 2021 5:42 PM  

What search engines are recommended for doing our own research? Obviously, Google is worthless, but I hear conflicting reports on DuckDuckGo's reliability and accuracy.

Blogger SacrificialLamb April 18, 2021 5:43 PM  

When someone uses the phrase, "citation, please", the person in question usually isn't searching for the truth....but is instead trying to discredit you in some way. Vox is right, in that that this is (usually) a "tell" of the gamma. The person who demands sources is NOT going to change his position, simply because you provide your sources on command.

I've seen what Vox is describing play out so many times now. The people who honestly wish to find the truth will find it.

And yes, there are honest questioners out there who seek out sources for the truth, but honest questioners are much more rare (and less passive-aggressive) than those of the "citation, please" variety of gamma that Vox is talking about. His policy makes sense.

Blogger RedJack April 18, 2021 5:56 PM  

Well, you did send me down the JB Bury rabbit hole. I now own hardcopies of all of the Cambridge Medieval Histories.

My bride does not than you for that.

Blogger VFM 17 April 18, 2021 6:12 PM  

SourceTrolls Delenda Est

Blogger shadohand (akuma sock account# 799273 Matt Gaetz is all for the P.L.U.R. Life (Peace, Love, Unity and Republicanism) ) April 18, 2021 6:44 PM  

To all those saying google it, well sometimes you cant google something. You usually have to get the word order right so it pops up in the search list. Specifically if its obscure information, or couched in legalese. If you know how to properly google, which 90%+ of people don't its not hard, just tricky.

Whenever I ask for sources its because Im curious in reading the source and/or having a copy of it saved to send to others. There's usually other sources contained within that source that have expanding information, and Im curious about those. Essentially, the source goes into the filling cabinet.

In Vox's case though he usually posts sufficient links, or there are ones in the comments that can help you find the original source easily.

Someone just wants to discredit and disqualify if they blatantly asking for a source like is mentioned in the OP.

Blogger Critias April 18, 2021 6:58 PM  

I did ask for a source once, it was to do with the amount of casualties during the Inquisition. Now after reading this blog post, I wanted to say I am sorry and will try to do better.

Blogger Sam Gem April 18, 2021 7:02 PM  

I've noticed that shills often ask for sources just so they can immediately dismiss the evidence by disparaging them. Since truth is not often found in the mainstream, they think this is an easy way to win the argument. Of course this isn't true as they are committing the Genetic fallacy, which is a logical fallacy that occurs when a claim is accepted or rejected based on the source of the evidence, rather than on the quality or applicability of the evidence. It is also a line of reasoning in which a perceived defect in the origin of a claim or thing is taken to be evidence that discredits the claim or thing itself. The fallacy is committed when an idea is either accepted or rejected because of its source, rather than its merit.

Blogger VD April 18, 2021 7:29 PM  

I was wanting to forward to others the data you refer to and know that those to whom I would forward would ask for a source other than myself.

If I don't care about it firsthand, why would you imagine I would care about it secondhand? I don't care why you want the sources. Once you know that it exists, go look it up!

It is possible that someone asking for sources is asking so they can use it elsewhere.

Of course that happens too, though less frequently. Guess what happens next? When they use it elsewhere and someone invariably quibbles about it, they come back to me to provide them with a response.

No. Just no.

Blogger VD April 18, 2021 7:30 PM  

The correct way to ask Vox for sources: Vox, I'd like to do some more reading on this subject. Do you have any resources you'd recommend?

There is no correct way.

Blogger A trite re-white April 18, 2021 7:42 PM  

Yes, Yes, and Yes!!

Blogger Ransom Smith April 18, 2021 8:46 PM  

If some asks for a source, just bully them for not already knowing the information themselves.

Blogger Autarky Bear April 18, 2021 9:21 PM  

I completely agree. It's exactly the same issue I run into when discussing any number of contentious topics with people either in public or private.

About 3/4ths either listen and explain where they disagree or they are somewhat convinced by the conversation/arguments. Then you have a solid, 1/4th of people that just want to prove you wrong and it's always those people that ask for sources first and do everything to argue about the integrity of the sources; never addressing the actual argument.

Blogger Tanjil Bren April 18, 2021 9:22 PM  

"...Such individuals are usually inclined to simply resort to a search engine rather than ask someone else for a hyperlink to a readily available URL or PDF file."


Demanding sources under these circumstances is usually a) laziness or b) snark (and generally the latter).

Rejection of such requests (with extreme prejudice) is entirely appropriate.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 18, 2021 11:04 PM  

Oh, when I argue, I try to use the worst sources. The correct information, but a source that makes the other side choke: historical romance novels, aggressively titled polemics, lesbian professors, bad artist memoirs, b- and C list actors, disgraced anyone. The facts will be corroborated by respectable journals, but I want the shock of contempt.

Blogger JovianStorm April 19, 2021 1:07 AM  

The best possible thing to do here is to not comment in the first place.

Every other option assumes second place and goes downwards from there. My own reply here is an admitted example of a non-optimal response but I'm grateful that we are allowed some grace with regard to commenting.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( LeMoron James loves knife murder ) April 19, 2021 1:13 AM  

i would consider Vox for a charter membership in the Militant Apathists.

Blogger Kirk Parker April 19, 2021 2:37 AM  

"reputable news organisation"

That's an empty set

Blogger Xellos April 19, 2021 4:19 AM  

I like Berdyaev's "this was once revealed to me in a dream".

Blogger JamesB.BKK April 19, 2021 4:27 AM  

Too bad the search engines have become so weak. It's usually three pages of "Why [search term] is not true at all and is the dumbest conspiracy theory ever . . . etc." with all that fad fake ass "debunking." Even if you search for Henry+Ford+international or something. Anymore if someone says any form of debunk it's a tell - but nonetheless sifting through all that to find some background is a drag.

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 19, 2021 4:52 AM  

It's an Alinsky tactic.
Their side will spew outright lies and crap.
While they require of us to jump through hoops providing sources that they already dont read.
Once you realize that tjus is war and there is no debate, there is no need to provide sources.

Blogger Harambe April 19, 2021 4:52 AM  

Ransom Smith wrote:If some asks for a source, just bully them for not already knowing the information themselves.

Ah yes, the Oracle Support Forum

Blogger rumpole5 April 19, 2021 6:13 AM  

I don't understand. You usually DO include a link, and the reader is perfectly able to judge the link's credibility and timeliness for himself. It seems to me that someone is really worried about your influence.

Blogger wahr01 April 19, 2021 6:51 AM  

This squares with my experience in informal conversation.

If they demand a source and you provide it, they attack the source.

I've taken to muting/blocking people who do this online, and, depending on context, either "nodding and smiling" or mocking people who do this in person.

Blogger April 19, 2021 7:30 AM  

The best gravy is the gravy I make myself, with the help of a wonderful roast, provided by a good friend. Or in this case the dread SDL.

As an uninteresting aside after 30 years went back to college. Between times research went from library to internet and I learned all over how to footnote an internet search. Wisdom went from what we inherited from the past to smoke and mirrors. Thank you Vox, this site brought back optimism and hope. And reminded me there are still good and wise people, just don't look for them on campus.

Blogger CostelloM April 19, 2021 8:16 AM  

The request for a source is just to make you do a bunch of extra work that will, upon presentation of material, immediately be ignored or dismissed with a pithy comment. "Oh that comes from _______ site" because everyone knows 2 + 2 does not equal 4 if such is stated on

It's a time waster. They don't want the truth, the don't want a source (or else they'd find one themselves) all they want is for you to shut up and stop dealing in unpleasant truths. Assigning you homework is just to take up your time.

Blogger SplashDaddy April 19, 2021 8:18 AM  

Sources? Ha!

The Dark Lord is one of my primary sources.

Blogger Brian Peterson April 19, 2021 9:13 AM  

I agree. Between Owen Benjamin and Vox, verifying the things they state has turned me into a research machine. The fact they don’t provide sources and the fact the internet actively suppresses the things they state in most cases means you quickly earn a black belt in source mining. And don’t people realize how gay it is to say “what are your sources?”

Blogger eclecticmn April 19, 2021 10:40 AM  

I was wanting to forward to others the data you refer to and know that those to whom I would forward would ask for a source other than myself.

I would assume that was often the reason. I never asked for a source and now never will, unless it is from a commenter. Tony Heller makes climate videos on rumble and some other platforms. Often he provides supporting links on his web site which are useful.

VD's OP (people do not change their position when provided cites) made me recall a different recent experience with a discussion on a climate skeptics subreddit. Someone was asked to explain why the temp records for one rural site (Falls Village) had been adjusted to cool the past. The response was to cite science papers and methods and name calling but never to explain in detail how these 'scientific' methods were applied in this case.

In short, I became aware that most of their energies were used to attack the opposition, not to explain why their position was correct. You see this all the time from the mask covidians. They attack every analysis showing masks make little or no difference as not perfect, while offering only simulations as support rather than real data from humans.

I recall one case where some AU govt meteorologists were asked by the AU parliament (or maybe one state) to explain the methods used to cool the past official temp record. The 'scientists' refused, saying it was too complicated to explain.

Blogger markregan April 19, 2021 12:56 PM  

Hah! Me too! Reminds me of Olivier's portrayal of "the Mahdi" in the movie "Karthoum!"

Blogger SecondComingOfBast April 19, 2021 1:32 PM  

I realized tbe truth of this instinctively, way back when I used to troll Yahoo groups. I always told them to look it up their damn selves, especially when they expect you to come up with a four year-old article at the drop of a hat. If I can take the time to look it up, why the hell can't they?

I woukd never click on the links they sent me, either, and gleefully told them I wouldn't.

Blogger markregan April 19, 2021 1:41 PM  

I am one of those guilty of said "offense." And while it is true that many or most asking for a "source" do so in bad faith, and will only impugn the source, that was not my intention. To ANYONE capable of basic reason and logic, the utter "disappearance" of the flu exactly coinciding with the PLANdemic is so damning to their false narrative it's laughable...

Blogger markregan April 19, 2021 1:49 PM  

These data on the disappearance of the flu are available everywhere you look - no one denies it! "Mainstream" scientists claim to be "baffled." It is embarrassingly obvious they are counting flu cases as Covid, along with pneumonia, etc; I was merely asking for yet another "source" to prove the point.

Blogger RobertT April 19, 2021 6:09 PM  

No sweat. I prefer to think it's all you.

Blogger kerdasi amaq April 19, 2021 6:24 PM  

The elite are starting to believe their own propaganda. Once, they've destroyed their economic and military base with this scamdemic, will the Chinese follow their direction?

Blogger kerdasi amaq April 19, 2021 6:28 PM  

And to the Petagon, I say, good luck trying to fight the Chinese with a Mexican Army.

Blogger Hazim April 20, 2021 5:26 AM  

RULE # 1 :


Blogger Luke (alias "Lines With Chrome") April 20, 2021 10:53 AM  

Even in my work -and I work for the military, where there absolutely is a regulation or instruction or policy MFR for everything- the “askholes” who demand to “see that in writing” rarely back down immediately when quote chapter and verse and send them a copy of the reg as an attachment. No, then I am told that that document is outdated, or I’ve misinterpreted it, or CLEARLY the brass didn’t have OUR unique and special situation in mind when they came up with that, and on and on... My all time favorite is “The regulation says ‘the commander *shall* __________’. We view that as meaning ________ is optional.”

Blogger Nathan Braun April 20, 2021 4:51 PM  

Good idea. Think I'll start doing this. Never once has providing source made anyone asking for it believe it.

Blogger Collin Northwest April 25, 2021 10:57 PM  

Or maybe I agree and want the source so I can better argue for your position with another.

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