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Sunday, April 11, 2021

The frauds testify against themselves

I'm not even going to pretend to be a little bit surprised that yet another "famous Christian" who has made a career of selling watered-down fake Christianity to the masses has publicly denied Jesus Christ:

Paul Maxwell, a former Desiring God writer and the author of the book The Trauma of Doctrine, has announced he is no longer a Christian. 

“What I really miss is connection with people,” Maxwell said on his Instagram feed. “What I’ve discovered is that I’m ready to connect again. And I’m kind of ready not to be angry anymore. I love you guys, and I love all the friendships and support I’ve built here. And I think it’s important to say that I’m just not a Christian anymore, and it feels really good. I’m really happy.”

“I can’t wait to discover what kind of connection I can have with all of you beautiful people as I try to figure out what’s next,” he added. “I love you guys. I’m in a really good spot. Probably the best spot of my life. I’m so full of joy for the first time. I love my life.”

Maxwell, who has his Ph.D. in theology and has written on the topics of theology, trauma, and fitness, later followed up with a message to those who told him he’s going to Hell and are “not really happy” as a result of his rejection of Christianity. 

“I just say, ‘I know that you love me.’ I know, and I receive it as love. I know you care about the eternal state of my soul and you pushed through the social awkwardness of telling me this because you don't want me to suffer. And that is a good thing. That's a loving thing to do. And I hear where you're coming from, and I respect your perspective.”

Maxwell is the latest high-profile Christian figure to publicly renounce his faith in recent years.

Last year, Jon Steingard, the Canadian Christian rock band Hawk Nelson’s lead vocalist, announced on social media that “I no longer believe in God,” explaining “it didn’t happen overnight.”

In 2019, Joshua Harris, author of the controversial Christian bestseller I Kissed Dating Goodbye, sent shockwaves through the evangelical Christian community after he published an Instagram post announcing: “I am not a Christian. Many people tell me that there is a different way to practice faith and I want to remain open to this, but I’m not there now.”

This is why it's very, very important to develop discernment. People simply MUST learn to stop following wolves in sheep's clothing just because the media quotes them saying ONE FREAKING THING that no one else is permitted to say in public without being deplatformed. That's precisely how the frauds are promoted as champions; I can't tell you how many idiots blathered on and on and on about how brave Jordan Peterson was for that public performance in one softball interview that was, in retrospect, an obvious setup broadcast in order to establish his nonexistent "right wing" credentials.

The same performance art can be seen in every single Christian circle. The enemy relentlessly seeks to elevate the weak, the stupid, and the fraudulent in order to obstruct the genuine leaders from rising to leadership.

There will be more, probably many more, of these fraudulent "high-profile Christian figures" being exposed as false to to the faith. Many of you could probably identify a lot more of them than I could, because I pay zero attention to any nominal Christian who is lauded or publicized by a media that hates Christianity more than anything else in this world. I expect it won't be too terribly long until the Osteens and Moores of the world begin to openly confess that the god they worship is of this world.

If the world doesn't hate a man, it's usually because he serves the world, and not Jesus Christ.

And just to make things clear for those who continue to falsely assert that I am an Armenian, an Arminian, an Arian, an Athanasian, or anything else, I will not hesitate to take anyone's witch test. 

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

And in the Holy Ghost.

So if anyone asks you what I believe, you can tell them that. Verbatim. Although if I had written it, I would have added the words "and died on the Cross" after "suffered". I also prefer "Spirit" to "Ghost", but that's merely personal preference.

Labels:

213 Comments:

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Blogger WITCHOUND April 11, 2021 8:42 AM  

Amen.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer April 11, 2021 8:43 AM  

But I expect it won't be long until the Osteens and Moores of the world openly confess that the god they worship is of this world.

I don't think so, they are doing way more damage preaching prosperity gospel. If a "leader" is not stressing that the world is supposed to hate you then they are of the enemy.

Oh, and my wife and I pray for discernment every single day.

Blogger Jose Miguel April 11, 2021 8:45 AM  

I always thought you were Armenian cause you and Roosh looked like brothers!

/jk

On a serious note, even Jesus had a Judas among His twelve, traitors and wolves are always to be expected and sniffed out. The benefit of this past shotdown is it has clarified in the various Orthodox jurisdictions in America which bishops actually believe, which are weak ruled by fear, and which practice and teach heresy.

Blogger Gon Freecs April 11, 2021 8:46 AM  

“I love my life”
That’s the problem. Not peace but a sword. It’s supposed to be a struggle

Blogger tdcommenter April 11, 2021 9:05 AM  

As book reviews are not books, theology is not worship.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 11, 2021 9:07 AM  

Years ago I called it "right wing naughty talk" a sure tell, and more than likely just some factoids and not an attack on the moral level which the Left jealously guards for good reason.

FTR that was my take on the Peterson clown when I first heard about his spiel, "yet more right wing naughty talk" and queue up his bestoogement. And your book is the only thing I read of his thru the book "Jordonetics", my cockatiel makes more sense than him.

Blogger White Knight Leo #0368 April 11, 2021 9:12 AM  

I'm not a Christian but I find pretenders to the faith repulsive in the same way and for the same reason that I find politicians who govern as though they hate their constituents repulsive. They're morally ugly gammas who get off on tricking well-meaning and sincere people.

I find myself recalling that "enemy/traitor/bullet" quote from that Romanian nationalist.

Blogger Newscaper312 April 11, 2021 9:18 AM  

Ah, took me a second w "very God of very God"
Used to that as "true God from true God" .
Of course very = true as in veritas.

Blogger Colonel Robert E. Hogan April 11, 2021 9:18 AM  

Thanks & God bless Vox. I also believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible....

Blogger Crunchy Cachalot April 11, 2021 9:22 AM  

It was a neck-and-neck battle between "I" and "love" for the word he overuses the most, with "I" just squeaking out the victory in the end.

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 9:25 AM  

So you have problems with the other declarations of faith in the standard version of the Nicene Creed? Not looking to see if you will float or not, I am truly curious as to what you think.

Blogger Pipeman April 11, 2021 9:27 AM  

YES and Amen to your solid and historical confession of The True Faith. May the LORD God protect your path into His Glory.

Blogger Doktor Jeep April 11, 2021 9:34 AM  

The destruction of the church, through the machinations of human weakness, is of such horror of implications that it takes my mind to dark places where death is not enough punishment and a Hellraiser-tier utility of pain starts to make sense.

Blogger IamDevo April 11, 2021 9:44 AM  

For a longer and more elaborate elucidation of the issue, see:
https://www.biblebb.com/files/whitefield/GW024.htm
If the length of the entry is daunting, the essence is this:
"Some, and I fear a multitude which no man can easily number, there are amongst us, who call themselves Christians, and yet seldom or never seriously think of Jesus Christ at all. They can think of their shops and their farms, their plays, their balls, their assemblies, and horse-races (entertainments which directly tend to exclude religion out of the world); but as for Christ, the author and finisher of faith, the Lord who has bought poor sinners with his precious blood, and who is the only thing worth thinking of, alas! he is not in all, or at most in very few of their thoughts. But believe me, O ye earthly, sensual, carnally-minded professors, however little you may think of Christ now, or however industriously you may strive to keep him out of your thoughts, by pursuing the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, yet there is a time coming, when you will wish you had thought of Christ more, and of your profits and pleasures less. For the gay, the polite, the rich also must die as well as others, and leave their pomps and vanities, and all their wealth behind them. And O! what thoughts will you entertain concerning Jesus Christ, in that hour?"
No improvement has been made of this exposition in the past 250 years.

Blogger VFM 17 April 11, 2021 9:44 AM  

The cuck crowed twice
and then denied Christ.
Saying "I don't know Him" might yield worldly credit...until God says it back.

Blogger VD April 11, 2021 9:53 AM  

So you have problems with the other declarations of faith in the standard version of the Nicene Creed?

What you erroneously describe as "the standard version of the Nicene Creed" is not even the Nicene Creed. It is the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed and I do not affirm it. I don't have problems with it, I simply do not believe all of the assertions that were added 56 years later.

Blogger Roslyn Johnson April 11, 2021 9:54 AM  

"many sheep are without and many wolves are within." St. Augustine

Blogger Mr. B.A.D. April 11, 2021 9:59 AM  

Your ammenments to this Creed would make it more similar to the Orthodox Creed.

Blogger Stilicho April 11, 2021 10:03 AM  

"Spirit" is the better English translation. "Ghost" has too many connotations of revenant.

Blogger Stilicho April 11, 2021 10:11 AM  

These "prominent Christians" are publicly "leaving" Christianity because 1) their brands of churchianty have mostly run their course; and 2) they think they can convince fools to follow them into open denial of God.

I used to wonder why anyone burned such heretics. After all, their foolish ideas are obviously foolish and cannot withstand scrutiny. I no longer wonder.

Blogger GeronL April 11, 2021 10:16 AM  

Any "Christian" leader who is on TV a lot or gets a lot of positive media coverage is going to be a fraud. Heck, we have a "Reverend" in Congress who doesn't think Easter is about Jesus and we can save ourselves. Insane.

Blogger Silent Draco April 11, 2021 10:16 AM  

Gammas: "You're religioning ALL WRONG!" since 32 A.D.

Another Judaso-Christian outed himself.

Blogger Unknown April 11, 2021 10:18 AM  

Over the years at times I have had to work on some business matters with pastors and more senior leaders in churches.

I suspect maybe half of them believe in God and their vows of service. Of the black pastors and prophet/bishops and all that, I think one was actually a believing Christian.

Blogger binks webelf April 11, 2021 10:27 AM  

Roosh is Armenian, so there's worse things to be. They grow fabulous beards.

Blogger Jesse April 11, 2021 10:33 AM  

Satan is The Prince of This world.

In. Christ. Alone.

Blogger grandadrepsher April 11, 2021 10:55 AM  

Remember this anecdote:
During a frustrating argument with a Roman Catholic cardinal, Napoleon Bonaparte supposedly burst out: “Your eminence, are you not aware that I have the power to destroy the Catholic Church?” The cardinal, the anecdote goes, responded ruefully: “Your majesty, we, the Catholic clergy, have done our best to destroy the church for the last 1,800 years. We have not succeeded, and neither will you.”
They will not succeed.

Blogger Ronius_Maximus April 11, 2021 10:56 AM  

Preach.

Blogger dienw April 11, 2021 10:59 AM  

If you have to walk alone outside the camp do so. The Father does not abandon His children.

This is the time to be extra vigilant; just because you're comfortable in a church and your fellow parishioners are of the same social class is not a reason to to remain: Remember God says to come out of Babylon lest you suffer the same plagues as the false church; the same goes for following false teachers.

Blogger Yukichi Sensei April 11, 2021 11:01 AM  

Every denom (and non denom) has these folks. See them, call them out, say why.

In my denom, NT Wright is popular and pushed by the Church of England establishment. His problem? Monophysiye. Christ wasnt really God. Just a man who intuited his mission.

Blogger Bettey Fontaneaux April 11, 2021 11:02 AM  

Campus Crusade For Christ, one of the largest ministry organizations in the United States, is quietly going through a schism right now. Wokesters have infested the organization from the very top all the way down. Those who still preach and practice grace and forgiveness are being driven out by those who preach "justice". Prominent leaders are also openly teaching that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable as long as they remain celibate. Truly wild times we live in.

Blogger RobertDWood April 11, 2021 11:05 AM  

Are you serious?

Go back to the shadow.
You shall not pass.

Blogger Genie April 11, 2021 11:16 AM  

If he wanted to speak the truth, better to have said 'I was never a Christian.'

Blogger geoff kiernan April 11, 2021 11:17 AM  

See Gons Freecs (above)

“I love my life”
That’s the problem. Not peace but a sword. It’s supposed to be a struggle"...

TOUCHE!!!

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli April 11, 2021 11:20 AM  

It is abject blasphemy to change spoons. Thank God my priest would never do such a thing.

Blogger Rek. April 11, 2021 11:21 AM  

What is your position regarding the Symbolum Apostolorum? Excluding the passage affirming the Catholic Church of course. Both Credos are very close.


CREDO in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae. Et in Iesum Christum, Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum, qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine, passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus, descendit ad inferos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis, ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis, inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum, sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam, sanctorum communionem, remissionem peccatorum, carnis resurrectionem, vitam aeternam. Amen.

Blogger T.L. Ciottoli April 11, 2021 11:21 AM  

Yes. You must lose your life to find Life in Christ.

The devil makes people feel all kinds of ‘good’ feelings.

Blogger Beardy Bear April 11, 2021 11:22 AM  

He that loveth his life shall lose it, and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Blogger Matt April 11, 2021 11:23 AM  

The specific version of the creed, or even a different one like the Apostle's Creed, rarely matters. Wolves in sheep's clothing hem and haw and dissimulate regardless.

Blogger James Dixon April 11, 2021 11:28 AM  

The Anglican Apostles Creed:

I BELIEVE in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary: Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from the dead: He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty: From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost: The holy Catholic Church; The Communion of Saints: The Forgiveness of sins: The Resurrection of the body: And the Life everlasting.

It sounds like you wouldn't have any real problems with it, as long as "The Communion of Saints" was properly defined.

Blogger Elder Son April 11, 2021 11:30 AM  

Boasting:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Corinthians+10-13&version=ESV

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Blogger DougW April 11, 2021 11:31 AM  

That's excellent, and I'm ashamed to not have been familiar with this before today. Thanks for sharing.

Blogger James Dixon April 11, 2021 11:32 AM  

> So you have problems with the other declarations of faith in the standard version of the Nicene Creed?

He quoted the Nicene creed. Even Wikipedia recognizes it as such: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

Blogger Will April 11, 2021 11:39 AM  

Rumpole5 - he doesn't have issues with the Nicene Creed, he has issues with the additions from Constantinople. The "standard" Nicene creed is not the actual Nicene Creed.

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 11:43 AM  

Who is Paul Maxwell?

Blogger Crush Limbraw April 11, 2021 11:46 AM  

When pulpits dispense pabulum for decades, infants stay infantile in the pews.
"Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to DISCERN good and evil." (Hebrews 5:11-14)
In fact, it was this erosion of strong and mature faith which began in seminaries, thus spreading to churches and eventually converged Christianity into Churchianity - especially in America.
This was an absolute necessity for Antonio Gramsci's march through the institutions to be successful - essentially mission accomplished on the large visible scale.

Do we need to understand what we believe? Augustine says that our faith is “incomplete and unstable until it is replaced by knowledge.” He also said that we cannot understand unless we believe first, but it must be followed by knowledge which comes by sight.
This entire subject is addressed in DaLimbraw Library, with archived articles by various authors intended for the serious reader and researcher.
Keep in mind that discovering truth in all things is a process, never an end state.
If all you know is what you learned decades ago, without any additions, deletions or addendums - you're delusional, believing in your own godliness as your own god.
I suggest you word search DISCERNMENT in DLL or review the CAP Lessons - there's enough meat there for any serious Christian. No, I didn't write the material - I use it for my own learning and edification.
Get to work and Godspeed!

Blogger T.S. April 11, 2021 11:49 AM  

Any thoughts Vox on the Unitarian nature of God in the Bible and the later developed trinity idea which has thanks to the empire of Rome become the mainstream world accepted dogma of the godhead. More “Christians” should examine those doctrines accepted as “gospel” the reformation was essentially run by neo-clowns. They really didn’t reform anything. Which would be the entirety of the Catholic system. He’ll even Constantine and his sons became Unitarian for a period. Until the syncretic power hungry fancy boys pushed their garbage on the church which was even to that point over 80% Unitarian and also mind you biblical Torah observant by many. Faith is the root, Obedience is the fruit.

Blogger Barbarossa April 11, 2021 11:50 AM  

...has announced he is no longer a Christian.

How can he no longer be a Christian when he never was one in the first place?

Blogger My Shield Is Disgust April 11, 2021 11:54 AM  

I would prefer that the Creed include the proper Name Yahweh.

It’s high time Christians started saying the Master Word again.

Blogger FacelessBro April 11, 2021 11:56 AM  

If one ever truly believed in Jesus Christ, one isn't able to just stop believing. That notion is ridiculous in and of itself.

Blogger Living in a Fallen World April 11, 2021 11:59 AM  

Question: when praying, should the prayer be to God or to Jesus Christ?

I don't know whether to pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ or to pray directly to Jesus Christ as the pathway to God.

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 11, 2021 12:01 PM  

I believe the Bible is true, and I'm uninterested in any declarations of faith not contained therein.

The Bible doesn't contain any witch tests, therefore none are needed.

Any country that refuses to make Christianity a condition for residence and citizenship will fall, for a house divided against itself cannot stand. I would rather personally execute OP's apostates by stoning than share a country with them. There is no freedom of conscience in Hell: Everybody knows, and gnashes. The faith of the Communists may not be sincere, but at least they have the will to impose it, which is a better form of hypocrisy than the reverse displayed by America's churchians. If you believe in religious freedom, give your wife an open marriage first.

Blogger Monica April 11, 2021 12:07 PM  

My friend and I are really struggling with the GOA response to COVID and BLM, to the point where we both stopped attending. We can't figure out where else to go within Orthodoxy that isn't completely in lockstep with the false narrative.

Could you help us? Who are the strong bishops? Which jurisdictions?

Blogger johndoe03526 April 11, 2021 12:32 PM  

I never heard of this candy ass before reading this. The Church is better off without him.

Blogger Wm Jas Tychonievich April 11, 2021 12:41 PM  

“Maker of all things visible and invisible” — except, apparently, Jesus Christ, who was “begotten, not made”?

Blogger Zundfolge April 11, 2021 12:41 PM  

This is why the Christians I listen to are the ones hated by the mainstream. People like David Wood, Alfonzo Rachel, and JP Sears.


(the last one was a joke)

Blogger First Principles April 11, 2021 12:49 PM  

I agree on the "Spirit" vs "Ghost" identification. We hear Ghost a lot less today (in Evangelical circles) and I think the shift reflects creepiness with the concept of ghosts among the un-churched.

Blogger Call Me Mort April 11, 2021 12:54 PM  

From the standpoint of physics, chemistry, and mathematics, it is impossible for DNA to have evolved from molten rock, which means there is a creator of some sort out there. Those who deny the Christian God, unless they are total ignoramuses, must believe in some creator, be it Thor, Zoroaster, Zeus, or whoever. On the other hand, fake Christians are no better. Their faith consists of the belief that we are all sinners, that God loves and forgives sinners, thus we can sin all we want as long as we say we are sorry.

Blogger liberranter April 11, 2021 12:55 PM  

"Famous Christian" = fraud. ALWAYS.

If the world doesn't despise you for preaching the Gospel, then you ain't doin' somethin' right.

Blogger Legacy16 April 11, 2021 1:03 PM  

I've been a Christian all my life, read books on theology, listen to thousands of hours of Christian music, and do not recognize any of the names listed in this article that say they are no longer Christians. And frankly, it's kind of hard to know what the exactly they are rejecting when they say they are rejecting Christianity. Are they rejecting Jesus Christ as God come in the flesh? If so, then they are anathema playing and simple! I'm shaking the dust off my feet right now.

Blogger Dirtnapninja April 11, 2021 1:06 PM  

All the fakers and grifters are jumping ship because they sense the political and cultural center of gravity is shifting.

Blogger Robert Pinkerton April 11, 2021 1:13 PM  

Faith is investment of belief by act of will.

Experience shapes the psyche.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 11, 2021 1:25 PM  

Jesus isn't one substance with God, Jesus is a man, who died. God can't die. Ever.

And it was the Word by whom all things were made, Jesus didn't exist at creation, he didn't exist until he was created in Mary's womb by God. The first few verses of John are all about the Word, not Jesus.

Trinity fiction, invented by Constantine to fit with the Roman version of gods who took human form. Nothing at all in scripture supports a god-man, nothing.

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 1:26 PM  

Wide brush.

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 1:30 PM  

@mysheild Yahweh? Really?!

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 1:31 PM  

@faceless bro You need to read the new testament a couple of more times.

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 1:32 PM  

@living in fallen world. Read John 14-16. And remember there are different kinds of prayer.

Blogger Didas Kalos April 11, 2021 1:35 PM  

Every one Knows there is not only a God, but that he is the Creator and Lawgiver.

Blogger papabear April 11, 2021 1:37 PM  

Beth Moore is taking small steps... https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/march/beth-moore-leave-southern-baptist-sbc-lifeway-abuse-trump.html

Blogger J. Samples April 11, 2021 1:53 PM  

"Desiring God." Brought to us by the letter H, the number 6, and the purveyor of "Christian Hedonism."
Deeds not creeds, indeed.

Blogger LoneWolf April 11, 2021 1:57 PM  

Jesus Christ, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, founded the Catholic Church in 33AD. Sixty-three years ago, it He was usurped as its Spiritual Head by a gang of Masonic hoodlums who were functionaries of the Talmudic cabal which has hated Christ and His followers who usurped (((them))) 2000 years ago as the Chosen People. As a result of this 63 year-old usurpation, the official "Catholic Church," i.e. the entity which currently inhabits the Vatican, has banished the true Catholic Church and driven same into the catacombs worldwide. Christ will right this wrong in His own good time. Until then, each and everyone of us will have an ever-increasing burden of horror to bear on earth, both Catholic and non-Catholic alike. Blessed Mary, Mother of God, pray for us.

Blogger LoneWolf April 11, 2021 2:01 PM  

Thought I would tack this on as an addendum to my last comment, for those who might want clarification regarding my assertions in that comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy8KZUtSroA

Blogger Nemesis The Warlock April 11, 2021 2:16 PM  

Credo!
There is only one TRUE God, indivisible and alone who is the creator of everything and the Father of Jesus Christ and, through Him, of all mankind.
Jesus' preexistence is a result of His being raised up incorruptible to be at His Father's side. Those who are saved are no longer constrained by time. This Jesus visits Daniel long before His birth and the apostle John is actually there with Christ at His return to record the Revelation, it's not simply a vision, he's actually recording what he saw happen.
When you realise this principle, a number of biblical passages make a lot more sense.
Otherwise, who cares about this asshole, he never really existed anyway. Same goes for all fake Christians.

Blogger MichaelJMaier April 11, 2021 2:27 PM  

Dave wrote:Jesus isn't one substance with God, Jesus is a man, who died. God can't die. Ever.

And it was the Word by whom all things were made, Jesus didn't exist at creation, he didn't exist until he was created in Mary's womb by God. The first few verses of John are all about the Word, not Jesus.



So you're calling JC a liar. Got it.

Blogger Kingly Gift April 11, 2021 2:33 PM  

I like that VD suggests the infamous Cathy Newman JBP interview was a set up. I fell for it the first time, but when pondering it later, I had wondered if it was not what it appeared to be.

Blogger Kingly Gift April 11, 2021 2:36 PM  

@Dave You regurgitation gnostic heresies that the Church already demolished in the 3rd century (100 years before Constantine). Read Irenaeus "Against Heresies."

Blogger eclecticme April 11, 2021 2:36 PM  

There is a show "Eat the Press" on RT. They showed how the MSM covered Holy Week including covering Priest sexual molesting. I do not know the date but recently there was some guy twerking God on SNL.

Blogger Black Robed Cleric April 11, 2021 2:43 PM  

> I expect it won't be too terribly long until the Osteens and Moores of the world begin to openly confess that the god they worship is of this world.

The wolves stay in sheep's clothing as long as they can do more damage to the Gospel than out of it.

Blogger boogeyman April 11, 2021 2:47 PM  

If a preacher searches out the camera, has a mega-church, is know for writing best selling books on faith, if they spend more time playing in their band or promoting their church/books/appearances than they spend preaching the word or administering to those who need it, if their sermons ever include the words "social justice", "inclusion" or "equity", then they love the adulation of this world more than they love and fear God.

Run away from such people as fast as you can. Do not try to save them, do not try to argue with them, do not even bother to condemn them. They have condemned themselves, and do not want you to save them. Simply leave before you are dragged down with them.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 11, 2021 2:54 PM  

Dave wrote:And it was the Word by whom all things were made, Jesus didn't exist at creation, he didn't exist until he was created in Mary's womb by God.
You are not a Christian. Not in any way shape or form. You are a Heathen Gnostic. Satan quotes scripture, so referring it back to your deliberate misreading of scripture won't save you. You have never known Jesus.

Stop trying to tell Christians what our bible says, who our God is. We know far better than you.

Blogger Manster April 11, 2021 2:59 PM  

I remember Jeff Durbin saying a few years ago that the fact that America is losing its "cultural Christianity" will be a good thing. It will purify the church.

When you no longer gain cultural capital, but in fact lose it, by being Christian, then the frauds will leave and will strengthen the church in the long run. Praise God these fakes are leaving.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 11, 2021 2:59 PM  

Nemesis The Warlock wrote:Jesus' preexistence is a result of His being raised up incorruptible to be at His Father's side.
Credes! in your own bullshit. Jesus is UNCREATED. Stop trying to rationalize your heresy.

This is what happens when you encourage or even allow the anti-trinitarians to speak. They love their intellects so much they come up with irrational and frankly evil theories to deceive themselves and then annoy Christians with their stupidity.

Blogger grandadrepsher April 11, 2021 3:02 PM  

We don’t really know how YHWH was pronounced. It’s not vocalized in Hebrew.

Blogger xevious2030 April 11, 2021 3:02 PM  

“in order to obstruct the genuine leaders from rising to leadership”

Yep. A horse that needs to be dead, worldwide.

Blogger Elder Son April 11, 2021 3:09 PM  

@62

How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings.

I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Truly, truly, I tell you," Jesus declared, "before Abraham was born, I am!

I am the bread of life. I am the light of the world. I am the door. I am the good shepherd. I am the resurrection and the life. I am the way, the truth, and the life. I am the vine, you are the branches.


You have no idea what God has done for you. That is the love of the Father.

Blogger Feather Blade April 11, 2021 3:13 PM  

Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 wrote:The Bible doesn't contain any witch tests, therefore none are needed.

Any country that refuses to make Christianity a condition for residence and citizenship will fall, for a house divided against itself cannot stand.


For the sake of argument, if "witch tests" aren't needed, because "the Bible doesn't contain any", how do you propose to determine who is a Christian for citizenship purposes?

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare April 11, 2021 3:19 PM  

@Bettey Fontaneaux
"Prominent leaders are also openly teaching that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable as long as they remain celibate."

I don't know about "perfectly acceptable" but other than that isn't that basically true? I mean the desire is sinful too, but if they recognize that and remain celibate and abstinent as a result, repenting and asking forgiveness for the sin, what more can they do?

Or are they (campus crusade) saying that the desire is fine, so long as it's not acted upon? Because yeah, that would be a "comforting" lie. The desire is sinful too.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 11, 2021 3:22 PM  

>For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

>Hear, O Israel: Yehovah our God, Yehovah is One.

>Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

>Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me;

Snidely hits with insults, but no scripture.
I reply with (just a few) scriptures.
Remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

Blogger Gingas April 11, 2021 3:31 PM  

Franklin Graham has been pimping for the not-vaccine.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 11, 2021 3:32 PM  

Bibliotheca Servare wrote:I don't know about "perfectly acceptable" but other than that isn't that basically true?
Mentally ill people are not fit for leadership. Full stop.

Dave wrote:Snidely hits with insults, but no scripture.
I reply with (just a few) scriptures.
Remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

It's our scripture, not yours. Satan can quote scripture too, while lying and deceiving, just as you do.
And no insults were hurled, merely bald facts, satan.

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 11, 2021 3:53 PM  

It's appalling how many fools will furiously argue theology despite obviously lacking general competence at reading graduate-level texts, which is an objectively testable skill, e.g. GRE or GMAT. The Bible's text has only become more difficult with the passage of time increasing cultural and linguistic distance.

> For the sake of argument, if "witch tests" aren't needed, because "the Bible doesn't contain any", how do you propose to determine who is a Christian for citizenship purposes?

A properly pointed question pierces like a speartip from a shaft's safely civil distance!

I don't propose to determine it. Any test you establish will be subverted, which is why Judges Israel, God's societal design, establishes no such test. For an example of the ultimate "check and balance" in such a system, see the genocide of Benjamin. Switzerland is similarly decentralized today.

I don't want to go hunting down quiet doubters, either. The Bible doesn't institute that. These sons of Belial are publicly proclaiming their apostasy, to applause. That merits banishment at minimum.

Blogger Ahărôwn April 11, 2021 3:57 PM  

Well said, Vox. And despite my own theological training, I really don't pay much attention to these sorts of famous church people either. My talents are used to help my church, not debate what "Sister Suzy said about Pastor Peter" on some website.

So much of this "engaging with the culture" - I really despise that term - is little more than elementary school gossip, with a gloss of churchianity on top.

Hard pass.

Blogger SciVo April 11, 2021 4:01 PM  

Heh. Osteen. The Babylon Bee has been absolutely vicious in its savaging of him, and I love it. My favorite: Joel Osteen's Bible Spotted Shivering Under Seedy Freeway Overpass

Blogger Darren April 11, 2021 4:03 PM  

Meanwhile, true Christians -- who have done a LOT of growing up in the past 5 years -- are noticing things ans boldly stating inconvenient facts to the whole word:

"Jesus Christ himself was very critical of powerful Jewish people and groups of His time. Many of the things He said would have the ADL, the American Jewish Congress, and others deplatforming Him from the internet and trying to have Him jailed too.

If “anti-semitism” is nothing more than speech the ADL doesn’t like, they are going to find “anti-semitism” under every rock. Their business model depends on it."

-Andrew Torba this week to millions of Gab users https://news.gab.com/2021/04/09/the-adl-fuels-hatred-of-jews-by-attacking-free-speech/

Blogger Elder Son April 11, 2021 4:20 PM  

@87

You just can not grasp that Jesus is fully God and fully man.

His divine nature made Him fit for the work of Redeemer; His human body allowed Him to shed the blood necessary to redeem. No human being with a sin nature could pay such a debt. No one else could meet the requirements to become the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world (Matthew 26:28; 1 John 2:2). If Jesus were merely a good man as some claim, then He had a sin nature and was not perfect. In that case, His death and resurrection would have no power to save anyone.

That our Father took on the flesh of man displays the love He has for His children. No mere blemished man could have substituted. Only God, in whom their is no blemish, could have done this.

Behold the love of the Father.

Stop wailing and gnashing your teeth.

Blogger mike April 11, 2021 4:20 PM  

AMEN

Blogger Emmett Fitz-Hume April 11, 2021 4:37 PM  

Amen Vox.

Blogger Arthur Isaac April 11, 2021 4:40 PM  

@Dave.

Not a half a hairs breadth between your error and the error that caused the Pharisees to condemn and crucify Jesus Christ for blasphemy. The origins of these heresies are standard issue.

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 11, 2021 4:55 PM  

Also, when I said the Bible doesn't contain witch tests, I meant actual witches and actual tests. Like, there's an adultery test, but it wouldn't work now.

I don't know exactly what ya'll mean by "witch test," but I guess it involves demanding confessions of faith from people with varying levels of civility and rigor. Of course, a polite genuine inquiry should elicit a shibboleth-passing confession of faith from an educated Christian. If someone fumbles his pronunciation, a brief follow-up interrogation should reveal his Proggunist sympathies. Then it's off with his head and into the river!

Usually human sacrifice for crop fertility is counterproductive, but in the case of killing Communists, it works even better than Brawndo. I wonder how many lives are saved on average for every Communist killed? Walking past Communists without killing them really is like walking past a burning orphanage without rescuing any. People can be so heartless, it's a shame.

Blogger Jose Miguel April 11, 2021 5:08 PM  

@90 Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552

I don't propose to determine it. Any test you establish will be subverted, which is why Judges Israel, God's societal design, establishes no such test.

Have you read Judges? Have you heard the term "Shibboleth" used in English before, and wondered where it came from?

Blogger Lando April 11, 2021 5:12 PM  

Maybe Paul Maxwell should convert to Islam.

Blogger Unknown April 11, 2021 5:16 PM  

To know him and him crucified.

Blogger Jose Miguel April 11, 2021 5:30 PM  

@52 Monica

We can't figure out where else to go within Orthodoxy that isn't completely in lockstep with the false narrative.

Could you help us? Who are the strong bishops? Which jurisdictions?


The most important thing is the parish priest. Fr Josiah Trenham for example has been censured, in both canon and secular senses of the word, by his bishop and metropolitan yet he has never and will never comply with the COVID restrictions.

The second thing to look for is the parish laity, are they cowards or not? I, along with many others in my area, switched to a parish that isn't controlled by a terrified boomer parish council. The only people in that age range in our council are Slav or Arab, and thus not pozzed. The Americans on the council are Gen X, thank God! Questions to consider about the laity when you visit are:
1 How many wear masks?
2 What percentage of the women wear head coverings?
3 Are there restrictions on venerating the icons?
4 Do they have attendance caps they enforce?
If the answers are low, high, none and none, you found a solid parish!

If those two are solid, the bishop doesn't matter, just add to your prayer rule the prayers for God to keep the bishop away until the Judas either repents or is replaced by a Matthias.

On bishops, only two Metropolitans are strong, His Eminence Hilarion and Metropolitan Jonah, the latter who is unfortunately retired. On the other end Abp. Alexander of Dallas openly preaches heresy, and Abp. Elpidophoros practices heresy. The rest range from good like Abp. Peter of ROCOR to complete cowards like Bishop Benjamin of the OCA.

If you are in central Texas, I know 4 solid parishes. In Wisconsin I personally know 1, and in SoCal 1. Outside of that, your best bet is usually, but not always, ROCOR.

Blogger Shadow Banisher April 11, 2021 5:38 PM  

"But, it will be said, Christianity is a life, not a doctrine. The assertion is often made, and it has an appearance of godliness. But it is radically false, and to detect its falsity one does not even need to be a Christian."
- J Gresham Machen

Blogger btgrave April 11, 2021 5:46 PM  

The holy spirit is totally a chick.

Blogger Nemesis The Warlock April 11, 2021 5:47 PM  

@81. Snidely Whiplash

Sorry Snidely, didn't know I was touching a nerve there. Not sure why or what I said that was evil?
As for my attitude, as far as I'm concerned scripture should dictate to you not the other way around. We all struggle with the process though.

Blogger Dan Karelian April 11, 2021 5:58 PM  

The major differences between the two creeds are 1. the explicit recognition of one visible church with it's sacraments, which no Protestant can affirm any more than they can justify where they get their Scripture from.
2. The explicit recognition of the personal deity, and therefore the uncreatedness of the Holy Spirit.

And therein lies the witch test.

Do you affirm the consubstantiality of the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son?

No? If so we can definitely confirm your belief as Semi-Arian, a Pneumatomachian.

Blogger Middle American Water Tower Man April 11, 2021 6:19 PM  

Amen

Blogger Autarky Bear April 11, 2021 6:26 PM  

Pax tecum Vox

Blogger PJW Gent April 11, 2021 6:28 PM  

Not-a-jot-nor-tittle wrote:>For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

>Hear, O Israel: Yehovah our God, Yehovah is One.

>Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

>Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me;

Snidely hits with insults, but no scripture.

I reply with (just a few) scriptures.

Remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

If brains were dynamite you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
You, like your father the devil, twist the scriptures to make your fallacious arguments.
Re: "Hear, O Israel: Yehovah our God, Yehovah is One."
"Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."
The Hebrew ichad often means unity in plurality. The word for unique or singularity is yachid. Moses actually uses ichad in the statement about a husband and wife becoming "one" flesh, something that would point to the Christian understanding of the Godhead and not your perversion, but then you are like your father, who misquotes scripture to his advantage to capture the ignorant.

You seem to forget what Thomas said to Jesus after he examined his Lord's wounds post resurrection. He fell to his knees and said, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus did not deny his worship or proclamation of deity but merely said, "You believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen yet believe."

As to the Sabbath and the law, you forget what the Council of Jerusalem in Acts laid upon the Gentiles to keep (Sabbath not mentioned) and Paul's argument in Romans 14:5-9 where he allows us to keep one or another or every day as holy and it is not a matter for judgement. I keep Sunday as holy as it is the day my Lord rose from the dead establishing the new covenant. I am convinced and that is enough.

Your lord must be disappointed in you for your arguments are failed efforts destroyed long ago but recycled to try and fool the ignorant. Begone. Seek repentance if it is possible for you. It is your only hope.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 11, 2021 6:56 PM  

amen

Blogger Chill Penguin April 11, 2021 7:17 PM  

@86 it's a shame even to speak of what is done of them in secret. We are to refrain from filthy talk and put no unclean thing before our eyes. It's intrinsically corrosive to let people talk about that stuff because it means you can't have children in the room and the biggest problem with my generation is that we're not used to having children around. My entire generation was turned into a bunch of gaywads whose idea of masculinity is the revolting parody that is PUA. Being a straightwad is not an aesthetic to participate in, it is a way of life based on a code of honor and building, maintaining, and defending stuff. The men of my generation make all kinds of excuses for not having stuff because they would rather watch movies all day even though they see their women respecting men who have stuff. Some of them even get a mind to just steal stuff or tell their "girl-friend"s that after the revolootion they'll have stuff stolen, while laying around doing drugs.

Blogger Dire Badger April 11, 2021 7:25 PM  

The Devil can quote scripture.

Blogger Bezzle April 11, 2021 7:26 PM  

Raise a hand if the first time you heard of Peterson was either:

a) a MSM hit-piece bitching about him, or....

b) a high-volume/low-quality histrionic 'net poster complaining about the MSM bitching about him.


"...The enemy relentlessly seeks to elevate the weak, the stupid, and the fraudulent in order to obstruct the genuine leaders from rising to leadership...."

You can see this going on in every public facet of existence.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 11, 2021 7:50 PM  

@51 it is not possible to require people to be Christian, since only God knows who is, but it is required by 2 John 1 to refuse to have anything to do with His open enemies

Blogger papabear April 11, 2021 7:53 PM  

@52 OCA seems to have been a bit mixed in its response to COVID. Check out OrthoodxReflections.com -- there has been discussion of the handling of COVID by different jurisdictions there, I believe. I would think that the more Russian and Russian-friendly jurisdictions have been "freer."

Blogger Chill Penguin April 11, 2021 8:08 PM  

> The Bible's text has only become more difficult with the passage of time increasing cultural and linguistic distance
where does the Bible say that, professor?

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 8:39 PM  

Fair answer. Thanks. Now all I have to do is do some research and tease out what exactly was added "56 years later". I recall that there was some dispute about "proceeded from the father and the son" as between the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, but I really did not know that there were other extensive additions.

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 8:43 PM  

Ghost is the better term because it is clearly a person. "Spirit" can be a feeling as in "a spirit of fun". That is confusing.

Blogger James Dixon April 11, 2021 8:49 PM  

> The destruction of the church....

Your worries are unfounded. It is His Church, not ours, and He will protect it.

> Question: when praying, should the prayer be to God or to Jesus Christ?

The official answer in all denominations I'm familiar with is that since they are one it doesn't matter. From a personal perspective, Christ prayed to the father, so I follow his example.

> The first few verses of John are all about the Word, not Jesus.

You're not tall enough for this ride. Jesus was the Word.

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 8:50 PM  

That is what confused me. I've always thought that the last 5 lines were rather well supported biblically.

Blogger Merely a traveller April 11, 2021 8:51 PM  

That idea was Pelagianism and was suppressed about 1600 years ago as it not conform to Christianity or the teachings of Jesus. Its sad that most people go through life not understanding, or having the curiousity to research where their beliefs come from.

Blogger Student in Blue April 11, 2021 8:59 PM  

Very relevant video to "oh I'm no longer a Christian woe is me"

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 9:00 PM  

Our gracious host quoted PART of the creed that I am familiar with. That part was certainly enough for identification as a Christian. I was just curious about the omission. Don't go overboard. CHEESE!

Blogger RandyJJ April 11, 2021 9:07 PM  

@106 Dan Karelian

The major differences between the two creeds are 1. the explicit recognition of one visible church with it's sacraments, which no Protestant can affirm any more than they can justify where they get their Scripture from.

You betray a fundamental misunderstanding of the issues. Where does the authority of Paul's epistle to the Romans come from? According to Protestants, the authority in it comes from Paul, who was an apostle of Jesus Christ. This is the test of what is 'authoritative.' To say that Protestants can't justify the authority of the book of Romans is to concede that you don't believe that Paul's words carry inherent authority--that the authority had to be bestowed upon it by the Church. Do you believe that? If not, the argument is nonsensical.


Some Catholics bring out a "gotcha" argument where they point out that Luther wanted to remove books from the Bible. Supposedly, this just exemplifies the anarchy of the Protestant position. But if you look at the books he wanted to remove, you will see James, Jude, Hebrews, and Revelation. The first two were not written by "the apostles." The latter two were of disputed origin. So the argument against them is not that Paul's and John's words are open to dispute, but whether they were actually the words of Paul and John. So we see a consistent, if overzealous application of the principle that the original words of Jesus' disciples carry authority and everything after is suspect (and in the end, Luther did not remove any of them).

The gospels of Luke and Mark may seem to violate this, but they are a special case--being two of the earliest books written, of universal adoption by the early church, and generally recognized to have been 'sourced' by actual eyewitnesses, such as Peter and Mary.

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 9:08 PM  

Thanks, yes, I read his answer, and I am sincerely gratified that VD took time to do so. You erudites are most helpful!

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 11, 2021 9:11 PM  

Everyone please inhale and hold. I intend to explicate the precise interrelationship of the Trinity... right after I crack Unified Field Theory, as a warmup. Please wear a helmet and keep a fire extinguisher on hand in case you are susceptible to spontaneous cephalo-explosion and/or autocombustion. This is merely an abundance of precaution, as I will probably misstate a preposition or adjective on my first attempt.

Also, rebuking ancient theological errors committed by the sockpuppeting Alzheimer's crank is probably a waste of time.

Blogger Feather Blade April 11, 2021 9:13 PM  

Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 wrote:I don't know exactly what ya'll mean by "witch test," but I guess it involves demanding confessions of faith from people with varying levels of civility and rigor.

Is this what the kids call "edgelord"?

You've proposed a reasonable standard, to wit, that citizenship should require a citizen to be Christian, but you didn't bother to think through what that would mean in terms of proof.

Something to work on for next time, perhaps.

Blogger furor kek tonicus ( LeMoron James loves knife murder ) April 11, 2021 9:14 PM  

VD
And just to make things clear for those who continue to falsely assert that I am an Armenian, an Arminian, an Arian, an Athanasian, or anything else, I will not hesitate to take anyone's witch test.


the problem being, of course, that many denominations proclaim themselves the "one, True Church", without which there is no salvation.

so it matters little what Creedal statement one is/not willing to make, they claim that your rejection of their ( typically awful and often anti-Biblical ) clerics, doctrine and institutional authority is what has rendered you unsaved.

Blogger rumpole5 April 11, 2021 9:25 PM  

@Dave regarding the preincarnate Christ: 'May I refer to John 8:58 "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!" '

Blogger xevious2030 April 11, 2021 9:49 PM  

“didn't know I was touching a nerve there”

Had wanted to post, but had a sense to hold off. It isn’t a matter of touching a nerve, but of you being too stupid to understand the concepts you are writing, and too unaware to realize it.

What you are saying, attacks Christianity, and so is evil. God is also the Son of the Father. Jesus was God with or without raising.

Time is not a constraint, it is a description of what occurs with physical properties, and is relative to those properties. It is math, the finite applied to the non-finite.

For whatever they are or are not worth, these are the answers.

Blogger Cappuccinobear April 11, 2021 10:21 PM  

Amen. Walk with Jesus. All good things come from the Lord Almighty.

Don't forget, when Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed again, Don't look back on them.

Blogger billo April 11, 2021 10:42 PM  

About a year ago my pastor gave a lesson on apostates. His bottom line was that talk is cheap, and people can mislead for a long time. Faith has been around for a long time, and the truths of God are the same now as they were thousands of years ago. If someone is preaching something completely new and different, it's almost certainly wrong. And, when it comes to being a "follower" of some teacher, it must be done with caution until they have been dead for some time. Only after their ministry is over, and you can see its real fruits, do you know if they were real. Anyone who follows any of these people who have been around for only a decade or three are asking for diappointment.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare April 11, 2021 10:48 PM  

@Snidely Whiplash

Wait, are you saying that they're calling homosexuals who are celibate "perfectly acceptable" for leadership positions?

Bettey said "...prominent leaders are teaching that homosexuality is 'perfectly acceptable' as long as they are celibate. ..."

That's what I was replying to. I understood it to mean that these leaders were saying that homosexuals could remain in the church, without correction or repentance of their homosexual desires, so long as they remained celibate and abstinent.

Which is wrong, repentance of the desire is required as well, but otherwise I couldn't object.

If she(?) instead meant that those leaders were saying that homosexuals could lead churches, etc, so long as they remained celibate and abstinent, then that's entirely different, and even more wrong than not requiring repentance of the desire to remain in the church.

Homosexuals cannot lead, any more than a man who struggles with uncontrollable ordinary sexual desire could. Leadership in the church is a sacred responsibility, too precious and crucial to grant to people struggling, however successfully, with such persistent temptations and disorders. The Bible is clear on that.

Final note: Jesus is the Christ, the Blessed Lamb of Heaven, Redeemer, our Lord and our God! Very God of very God.

Not even the demons deny this among themselves. But they never cease lying about it otherwise.

Blogger SacrificialLamb April 11, 2021 10:52 PM  

@85. Feather Blade

For the sake of argument, if "witch tests" aren't needed, because "the Bible doesn't contain any", how do you propose to determine who is a Christian for citizenship purposes?


Check the person's Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter accounts. If the person in question is obnoxiously virtue signaling, that might give you clues. If the person is using a Satanically-inverted six-colored rainbow flag as an icon, that person is probably not Christian.

Running an effective witch test is usually hilariously easy if you skim through people's Internet accounts.

Blogger Unknown April 12, 2021 6:27 AM  

While I dislike the term "true Christian", the fact is that no TRUE Christian ever falls away. When one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they are sealed for life. One may have doubts, but never in God. One may question, but we never question God.

Blogger Harambe April 12, 2021 8:44 AM  

Unknown wrote:While I dislike the term "true Christian", the fact is that no TRUE Christian ever falls away. When one is sealed by the Holy Spirit, they are sealed for life. One may have doubts, but never in God. One may question, but we never question God.

Quite. I went through all sorts of things I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but I still believe and have faith. because my faith and belief aren't based on feelings. There were two or three times in my life where I quite clearly noticed God's hand in my immediate situation. As in: the things that happened would have been literally impossible without supernatural help. I know God exists, not because of a clever argument. I saw things that should have not been possible, but they happened anyway and after I prayed to God for them.

Hence I could be a bad Christian, but I could never be a non-believer.

Blogger FrankNorman April 12, 2021 8:57 AM  

Wouldn't it be nice if we could have a serious discussion about the celebrity religious leaders and their apostacy without all the anti-Trinitarian snowflakes coming crawling of the woodwork?

Because seriously? These people are not giving up on calling themselves Christian because they have a problem understanding how Jesus could be both Divine and human. Unlikely, in fact, that they have ever seriously considered such questions.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 9:10 AM  

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/8-58.htm

The original text includes the name of God, and this was the Word speaking:

'Said to them Yahshua, amen, amen, before Abraham came to be, was I AM'.

The Greek word https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm 150 eimi, is God's name I AM, and Yahshua is simply stating that before Abraham was, I AM was.

Note that Yahshua did not say 'before Abraham was, I was'. Obviously.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 9:20 AM  

>You're not tall enough for this ride. Jesus was the Word.

No, the Word became flesh.
Look up the Hebrew word 'Eth', all over the scriptures, in Genesis, the law, everywhere, Jeremiah 1, Malachi.

The Word was with God, and is God, and it did the creating and the law-giving, and then God placed the Word into a man, Yahshua. So Yahshua and the Word had a mental connection, a oneness of purpose, the Word was able to put thoughts into Yahshua's mind, teach him, direct him, help him fight the temptation to sin etc.

You know, when Yahshua asked God several times to 'take this cup away from me', and then said 'thy will, not mine', I do wonder how trinitarians can read that and remain sane? Weird eh.

Blogger Dan Karelian April 12, 2021 9:41 AM  

@124 RandyJJ

You betray a fundamental misunderstanding of my point. First, I am of the Orthodox Catholic Church and not the Roman Church.

Second, Luther is the antecedent to the modern higher textual critics. His autonomous epistemology with respect to the validity of the Scriptures, independent of Church tradition and authority, is what opens the Pandora's box to doubt any and every Book of the Bible.
That mentality is what gives rise to endless fracturing and speculation about interpretation, canonicity and dogma, with ultimately no basis whatsoever other than one's personal authority.

Third, the early Church you refer to is not some Gnostic invisible spiritual umbrella that transcends denominations and creeds. It is the one visible church today, with one faith and a resolved canon of Scripture from the first millennium. Without any need for amendment by Judaizing speculators like Luther.

Fourth, the Protestant test of what is considered authoritative derives ultimately from Scripture of course but that does little good for justifying the source of it.
How do you know that this book is true and written by the asseverated author? "Well it says so on page x."
Can you see the epistemic conundrum that you have landed yourself in?

Blogger Dan Karelian April 12, 2021 10:07 AM  

@139 Not-a-jot-nor-tittle

This Nestorian garbage right here by way of etymological fallacy is a prime example of autonomous interpretation without justification.
It would be refreshing if the Unitarians could even pretend to recite, never mind understand the arguments of the Church Fathers on Triadology and Christology.

Blogger RandyJJ April 12, 2021 10:20 AM  

@140 Dan Karelian

First off, most of what you wrote is completely irrelevant to the point. You said "no Protestant ... can justify where they get their scriptures from."

Your first point: irrelevant. I said a few things "targeted" at Catholics, but the underlying points cross over just fine. Your second point: Irrelevant. Whether or not Luther's epistemology opens the door to other problems has nothing to do with whether any Protestants can justify where the Bible comes from--something you said that no Protestant could do.

Your third point is... more than irrelevant. You asserted Protestants couldn't justify where the Bible comes from. To determine the truth of the claim, we have to look at things from a Protestant perspective. I do that with regard to the early church, and you come back and say "But that's wrong!" I mean... of course it is, from your perspective. Also, calling Luther a Judaizer is a bit weird considering his whole deal was standing against works and he was incredibly anti-semitic in his later years.

Your fourth point is... wow. You do realize that there are a whole bunch of methods of determining the authenticity of a historical text? You appear to believe that without the testimony of the one, true, Orthodox church, that we have no way of knowing who could possibly have written these ancient texts! We, as Protestants, believe the testimony of a) the early Christians, b) the historical record from both religious and secular sources, and c) the inner consistency of the texts themselves. By arguing that we can't do that, you're implicitly arguing that none of those things matter.


Some Protestants will argue over this stuff (see your point #2) because they don't want to believe, and most Protestants will just give you a blank look if you ask them to justify the Bible's authority--but you asserted this justification couldn't be done, not that most Protestants are ignorant and oblivious to basic facts.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit April 12, 2021 10:36 AM  

And in the Holy Ghost.

I have been praying that this would be true for you Vox Day, so that you could call upon the Spirit of Love and Truth.

So glad for you.

Blogger James Dixon April 12, 2021 11:02 AM  

> No, the Word became flesh.

Yes it did. Christ took on human form. Like I said, you're not tall enough for this ride.

> I do wonder how trinitarians can read that and remain sane? Weird eh.

The Trinity is a mystery. We're not supposed to understand it. We're probably not even capable of understanding it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 12, 2021 11:27 AM  

"His autonomous epistemology with respect to the validity of the Scriptures, independent of Church tradition and authority,"

Dan, that's false, as is so much of the rest of every comment that you make that I don't care to go into every point anymore. Luther accepted exactly the same scripture as the Catholic church of his time.

Whatever Luther may or may not have been, you are neither any authority, nor any observer, nor any honest witness --as completely unsurprising as that will be to anyone who has had the particular displeasure of reading your comments and checking anything at all that you say for veracity.

For those not in the know, Dan is a self-defined epistemological solipsist, he is a heretic, aligned with blasphemers, and by function is a pathological liar.

To cut to the chase, Dan is going to claim that only his mysteriously derived --and particularly elusive should you seek to find it by the names he will supply you-- church *AHEM* "ecclesia" contains all of the only verifiably qualified translators of the Scripture and/or God's will in general. You will also find that Dan defines "ecclesia" quite differently than Jesus did.

"No, the Word became flesh."

And that flesh was?

What a maroon.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 11:50 AM  

There is no 'church'.

There are seven churches (means assemblies) mentioned in Revelation 2 and 3 by Jesus. All of them but one are in serious trouble. The one that isn't in trouble are the elect. America is Laodicea, lukewarm, will be spewed out.

Don't be a church, be Israel, the people of God. Don't idolise the man Jesus.

Blogger VD April 12, 2021 12:03 PM  

I have been praying that this would be true for you Vox Day

My position has never changed at all.

Your perception of my position has.

Blogger Harambe April 12, 2021 12:44 PM  

Why are there so many muslims in the comments?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 12, 2021 12:46 PM  

furor kek tonicus ( The first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that you don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club ) wrote:the problem being, of course, that many denominations proclaim themselves the "one, True Church", without which there is no salvation.
Jesus saves. Your denomination does not.

Blogger SirHamster April 12, 2021 1:48 PM  

Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 wrote:The Bible doesn't contain any witch tests, therefore none are needed.
Bold position ...

Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 wrote:I don't know exactly what ya'll mean by "witch test," but I guess it involves demanding confessions of faith from people with varying levels of civility and rigor.
... taken in ignorance.

You have to know what something is, in order to know where it is not, or even if it is unnecessary. Ignorant dismissal may be a useful rhetorical flourish, but it is dialectical surrender on the topic.

"The Witch Test" is a title. The titles "The Great Commission", "The Lord's Prayer", and "The Sermon on the Mount" are all titles given to sayings and teachings of Jesus, even though they are not "in the Bible". The title is for reference purposes, and pointing out it's not in the Bible is like pointing out the Bible isn't written in English.

The Witch Test is a biblical challenge. "Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead." It is based on Scripture: 1) that no one can confess Jesus is Lord without the power of the Holy Spirit; and 2) that all Christians are to boldly proclaim Jesus's Lordship at all times. It draws out a man's foundational loyalty and worldview.

It may not be necessary, per se, but it is mightily useful in this time of heresy and confusion.

On that note, Leo, you are challenged to pass the Witch Test: Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 2:07 PM  

>Jesus saves. Your denomination does not.

God saves. Jesus is the way to the Father, and not obeying the Father's will gets you into hell. Christians, who idolise the man, the anointed man (messiah) Jesus, stop there, they don't bother to remember the Sabbath, they still eat unclean meats, they ignore the command to wear tassels to remind them of the laws of God.

They actually think God killed His own son for our past debt record, to allow them to continue in the same pagan sins. Their pastor told them 'no one can be like Jesus, perfect'. Jesus told us to be perfect, and 1 John 2-4 tells us the same.

All you who believed the trinity lies also believed the lies about ignoring the Sabbath, eating shit meat, you fell for all of it. Not wise as serpents.

Jeremiah 1, the child with the Word, that wasn't Jesus you know.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 2:13 PM  

>Yes it did. Christ took on human form. Like I said, you're not tall enough for this ride.

Christ (means messiah, or anointed man) IS a man, and was imbued with the Word. God cannot, repeat cannot ever die, there is no mystery here. God doesn't pray to Himself, God doesn't ask permission of Himself NOT to get on the cross. But God does demand a firstborn perfect offering for sins, and the offering of His only begotten son was foreshadowed on the day of atonement, the goat killed, blood sprinkled in the most holy place, for all of Israel. Who did Jesus come for? Not the world, but for Israel. Who makes it into the kingdom? No RCs, no C0Es, just Israel. And you are not Israel, and never will be. You are a lawless pagan faker.

There is one mediator between God and man, the MAN Jesus. Yehovah God is ONE God. You have the 2Thes2 delusion, from God, and you will not see the truth until after your death.

Blogger Bibliotheca Servare April 12, 2021 2:54 PM  

@Not-a-jot-nor-tittle

Jesus is our Lord and our God, as declared and prophesied in the scriptures. The Son may pray to the Father, regardless of what you might think.

He was, and is, fully man and fully God. Very God of very God. I may not understand how, but I know it is the truth, and foundational to the salvation of Man.

God didn't die. God the Son died, in place of all Men, and God the Father raised him from the dead on the third day. Holy and wonderful is his name!

Blogger LadyGerbil April 12, 2021 2:55 PM  

Hey Hamster, can you can confess that the messiah Jesus is from God (note, not IS God, from God, feel free to check the Greek), or are you a witch?

>'By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus messiah has come in the flesh is from the God I Am, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus the messiah in the flesh has not come from the God, I Am, This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.'

You will fail the witch test. I have popcorn ready.

I confess Jesus was begotten by the God, I Am, in Mary's womb. He lived, taught, died (as men die), was in the earth for 3 days and nights, and then God, I Am, brought His son, the man Jesus, back to life, and thereafter took Jesus up to heaven, where he is today, alive, a man, sat on the right side of the living God, my Heavenly Father, I Am.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd April 12, 2021 3:43 PM  

SirHamster wrote:... and pointing out it's not in the Bible is like pointing out the Bible isn't written in English.
Wait, wut?!?!? Next you'll be saying that Jesus didn't use the KJV! Heresy!!!!1!

Seriously, this thread has brought out some serious heretics.

We already had a clue about Leo Littlehat, and now we know for sure about jot-n-tittles.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 12, 2021 4:20 PM  

"There are seven churches (means assemblies) mentioned in Revelation 2 and 3 by Jesus. All of them but one are in serious trouble. The one that isn't in trouble are the elect."

Aww, and you were doing so well for the first sentence. Heresy is a hell of a drug, with serious side-effects, which may include but are not limited to: inability to logically connect concepts, and ability to combine concepts with no logical or reasonable connection.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 12, 2021 4:23 PM  

"You are a lawless pagan faker."

Says the lying heretic faker.

"There is one mediator between God and man"

Is? Do tell then, where now is Jesus, as a man, heretic? It is appointed unto a man once to die, and after that the Judgement.

Blogger FrankNorman April 12, 2021 6:05 PM  

Who did Jesus come for? Not the world, but for Israel. Who makes it into the kingdom? No RCs, no C0Es, just Israel. And you are not Israel, and never will be. You are a lawless pagan faker.

I'm guessing that John 3:16 isn't part of your personal canon for Scripture. Nor the Great Commission for that matter.

Blogger Dan Karelian April 12, 2021 8:05 PM  

@142
My position is relevant to the degree that Protestants typically and often confuse Latin claims such as Unam Sanctam with those of mine and proceed to attack strawmen with these assumptions. Better to nip it in the bud.

Luther was merely one of the more prominent people of this mindset, which is distributed to one degree or another with all Protestants. If you read the Church Fathers of the early Church you will discover that they were certainly not proto-Lutherans or Protestants of any kind. Well except for the likes of Tertullian who died out of the Church.
Scripture was and still is primarily for the purpose of the liturgy. The Protestant perspective has more in common with the Gnostic sects of the time than the Christians, who then and now affirm the authority of the visible Apostolic Church.

The early Christians and the religious record are testimonies of the one, true, Orthodox church. Secular sources are auxiliary at best and as such not required.
The inner consistency of Scripture relies on an interpretative paradigm that makes it coherent. The patristic phronema is what gives birth to the canon of Scripture and it's interpretation. That's where it comes from. The Protestants have simply appropriated the canon of Scripture of the Church for what amounts to a Choose Your Own Adventure.
It is no justification to arbitrarily pick & mix what you want from the history of the Church for your own sectarian purposes.

Blogger Dan Karelian April 12, 2021 8:07 PM  

@145
For those not in the know, Azure Amaranthine is a calumnious blog stalker who cannot stop reading my comments.

Where exactly have I "self-confessed" to solipsism, a self-refuting epistemological black hole position? You're a liar.
It's a little hard to take accusations of heresy seriously from a solo-denominational woman.

Whatever Luther accepted was of his own volition. It was not by that process which the Church accepted consiliarily centuries earlier.

But let's cut to the chase, what you think Jesus is saying is what is emblematic of the Protestant epistemology. You just get to decide what it all means because the Spirit guided you, which of course you autonomously can determine to be the case because the book told you how to check so on page x. All the while without the need for any authoritative spiritual counsel.

Interpret as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Protestant law.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel April 12, 2021 8:14 PM  

@62

Sure thing, Mohammed.

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 12, 2021 9:07 PM  

> Seriously, this thread has brought out some serious heretics. We already had a clue about Leo Littlehat,

I am not a heretic. You are a liar and a false accuser.

Blogger Nemesis The Warlock April 12, 2021 9:08 PM  

@130. xevious2030

Should've worn your flares to hide those platform shoes you're wearing.
If Jesus is God how did He die?
Who was He praying to?
How can God be tempted to sin?
Why did He say He wasn't good, only His Father is?
Why did the apostle John specifically say that there is only one God who is alone and indivisible?

Blogger Chill Penguin April 12, 2021 9:48 PM  

@159
> The inner consistency of Scripture relies on an interpretative paradigm that makes it coherent.
bullshit
> patristic phronema is what gives birth to the
whaargarbl
the Bible says that the Bible will not pass away [Mt 24] but God will preserve it "from this generation for ever [Ps 12]".

Blogger Chill Penguin April 12, 2021 10:05 PM  

@160 you're an adult, there's the book. if the Pope brought an idol into your church and told you to bow before it and recognize the equally valid nature gods of the indigenous tribe, would you do it?

Blogger SirHamster April 12, 2021 10:39 PM  

Not-a-jot-nor-tittle wrote:Hey Hamster, can you can confess that the messiah Jesus is from God (note, not IS God, from God, feel free to check the Greek), or are you a witch?
I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead.

Your attempted challenge shows misunderstanding of what the Witch Test is and how it is applied. It is not a confession from flawed men about their understanding of Jesus's divine nature, but one's declaration of Jesus's lordship, his legitimacy in God's eyes, and one's loyalty to Him.

You will fail the witch test. I have popcorn ready.
You have wrong priorities and flawed discernment if you think the witch test is a matter of your personal entertainment.

I confess Jesus was begotten by the God, I Am, in Mary's womb. He lived, taught, died (as men die), was in the earth for 3 days and nights, and then God, I Am, brought His son, the man Jesus, back to life, and thereafter took Jesus up to heaven, where he is today, alive, a man, sat on the right side of the living God, my Heavenly Father, I Am.
Gary/dummonia-watchman/Not-jot-nor-tittle:

You failed the Witch Test when I challenged you, and your paragraph here still fails it.

Repent by confessing Jesus is LORD and stop pretending to moral authority.

Blogger SirHamster April 12, 2021 10:48 PM  

Nemesis The Warlock wrote:If Jesus is God how did He die?
He gave up his spirit on the cross, and his body died.

Who was He praying to?
"Father"

How can God be tempted to sin?
The same way everyone else is tempted to. God gave man a command to not tempt Him. God can be tempted. God does not do evil, but you don't want to find out what a Good God can do to a man who deserves it.

Why did He say He wasn't good, only His Father is?
Read more carefully. Jesus never said he was not good. You have falsely testified to what Jesus said.

Why did the apostle John specifically say that there is only one God who is alone and indivisible?
Because those are God's attributes. This is the same Apostle John who testifies that the Word was God, and that the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Blogger Akulkis April 12, 2021 10:51 PM  

>> We don’t really know how YHWH was pronounced. It’s not vocalized in Hebrew.

YHWH and Jehovah are two English-specific corruptions of the same name.

Germanic/Latinate J is pronounced as Y.
Germanic W is pronounced as V.

There are other similar mispronunciations due to English having started as a Germanic tongue, but after Normans invaded England in 1066, and bringing French as the exclusive language of Royal court, English is now a language dominated by Germanic spellings but using French-based pronunciations for the letters.

Witness

Genitive form (something is from) of Москва (Moskva) is Москов (Moskov)

"R из Москов" = I am from Moskov (Moskva)
This shift functionally is very similar to I/me, he/him and she/her, except that it applies to all nouns (and associated adjectives).

Germanic transliteration (same sounds indicated by different alphabet) of Москов, (prounced Moskov) is Moscow.

Also

June is prounced by all of Europe outside of France and England as "Yoon"

Similarly July is misprounced by French and English native speakers. Proper prounciation is Yool or Yoolee.

Therefore accepting the discrepancy between Jehovah and YAHWEH, it's obvious that the proper prounciation is Yehovah.

And that final H is most likely a hard, airy "ahk" sound like Russian Х, or Greek Chi ("ky", not "chai" nor "chee").




Apply French prounciation

Blogger Leo Littlebook ID:16216229492837658552 April 13, 2021 12:50 AM  

Good effort, Akulkis, but the truth it seems is incredibly appalling.

Nobody says "Jehovah" in the Bible, AFAIK. It's a scribe's abbreviation. God's nickname is I AM, and full name is I AM THAT I AM. The English abbreviation is IATIA.

https://littlebook-ghost.nfshost.com/gods-name-is-i-am-that-i-am-abbreviation-i-am-not-jehovah-lord-etc-2/

Blogger Harambe April 13, 2021 3:27 AM  

Nemesis The Warlock wrote:@130. xevious2030

Should've worn your flares to hide those platform shoes you're wearing.

If Jesus is God how did He die?

Who was He praying to?

How can God be tempted to sin?

Why did He say He wasn't good, only His Father is?

Why did the apostle John specifically say that there is only one God who is alone and indivisible?


This is literally the Muslim critique of Christianity. Now, a genetic fallacy isn't an argument, but it does make you wonder if you shouldn't re-assess your claims if you're agreeing with the goat people who want to kill you.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 13, 2021 7:46 AM  

"For those not in the know, Azure Amaranthine is a calumnious"

I can quote you to display each one of those points. Are you ready?

"blog stalker who cannot stop reading my comments."

"You can't just call me out for my reliable dishonesty REEEEEE...."

There are those who are reliably correct to such a degree that an honest person, if aware of them, must eventually conclude they are divinely inspired.

There are, on the other hand, occasionally people who are so reliably wrong, even if they themselves believe what they are saying, that one must eventually conclude they are demoniacally compelled. You fall into this category, and are complaining about being stereotyped by your past actions.

I didn't metaphorically walk up in front of the park bench you were sitting on to complain about you, no, I don't follow you anywhere else. However, when you come here and shit on the grass in front of me every time you appear, I'm going to eventually expect the bouquet of feces, and yell at you on sight to go the hell away.

"Where exactly have I "self-confessed" to solipsism"

That would the part be where you've claimed that epistemology is ultimately circularly founded within the self, a position you never claimed to have left. Shall I quote you?

"You're a liar. It's a little hard to take accusations of heresy seriously from a solo-denominational woman."

"You're a liar" followed by only two statements, both lies. Reliably wrong. Is Dan a pathological liar or demoniacally inspired? I'll take both!

"Whatever Luther accepted was of his own volition. It was not by that process which the Church accepted consiliarily centuries earlier."

Followed immediately by lie #3. I repeat, Luther recognized and accepted exactly the same canon as the Roman church of his time. If you want to take exception to differences between the Roman and Orthodox canons, you should take exception first to the Roman or Orthodox branches of the church, as the executors of those differences.

"But let's cut to the chase, what you think Jesus is saying is what is emblematic of the Protestant epistemology. You just get to decide what it all means because the Spirit guided you, which of course you autonomously can determine to be the case because the book told you how to check so on page x. All the while without the need for any authoritative spiritual counsel."

Followed pathologically by lies #4-6, which, if you had so much as recognized me from previous discourse, you would and --probably do-- know are lies. We've been over this before, repeatedly:

#1: I'm not protestant, nor am I epistemologically reliant in any specially protestant fashion. I will not, however, abide your reliably self serving lies on the topic.

#2" The Holy Spirit is the final word in the interpretation of the Scripture according to Christ, the Scripture, and the testimonies of the witnesses, none of which you can quite abide, since you intend to employ wormtonguery to posit your chosen persons in that role.

#3: Ironically, you yourself are the one who is going to claim that your persons of choice are the only ones who know/can interpret/can veritably recognize/have access to that counsel. You're going to claim that in direct and obvious contradiction to Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the Scripture. I've watched you play this line of shit out before, more than once. Shall I quote you?

I'm not stalking you, Dan, you're pathologically shitting up this blog, where I was sitting and reading before you, reliably, arrived to relieve your intestines.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 13, 2021 8:13 AM  

"If Jesus is God how did He die?"

If he is not God, how was he of sufficient value to propitiate? How did he conquer and take the keys of death and hell while dead? How was he raised first?

"Who was He praying to?"

"Our Father, who art in Heaven...."

"How can God be tempted to sin?"

How can fallen man alone resist temptation?

"Why did He say He wasn't good, only His Father is?"

He didn't. Context, retard:

As Jesus started on His way, a man ran up and knelt before Him. “Good Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone."


Since you are illiterate, I'll spell it out for you: Jesus does not claim that he is not good here, because he does not claim that he is not God. Jesus can be read here as calling the man out for naming him "teacher", not for naming him good. However, like you, the man he is speaking to unnecessarily takes it in exactly the opposite manner.

"Why did the apostle John specifically say that there is only one God who is alone and indivisible?"

John 1:1-2:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.


John 1:14-15:

The Word became flesh and took up residence among us.
We observed his glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(John testified concerning Him and exclaimed, "This was the One of whom I said, 'The One coming after me has surpassed me, because He existed before me.'")


Curiously, Nemesis, the very first part of a book comes before the rest of it. For no reason at all, apparently, in your opinion.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 13, 2021 8:14 AM  

"Apply French prounciation"

Please no. I've enough sins without taking on that multitude.

Blogger Maniac April 13, 2021 8:28 AM  

"Why are there so many muslims in the comments?"

Sound more like Oneness Pentecostals.

Blogger Dan Karelian April 13, 2021 2:46 PM  

@171
""You can't just call me out for my reliable dishonesty REEEEEE....""

Pretend quote followed by an attempt at a self-righteous metaphor. I know some things don't translate well over text but that was definitely not me complaining about anything. A lie in your book evidently means virtually anything you don't agree with.

"That would the part be where you've claimed that epistemology is ultimately circularly founded within the self, a position you never claimed to have left. Shall I quote you?"

Go on and quote me. Make sure you look up the definition of solipsism first before you do liar. And quote that too.

"Followed immediately by lie #3. I repeat, Luther recognized and accepted exactly the same canon as the Roman church of his time."

Luther's primary goal in questioning the canon was to reject the importance of works. I suppose you're going to deny that too. His disposition was already toward heresy.
I take exception to anyone who thinks they alone or with their sect can determine what the canon of Scripture is, regardless of whether the end result is in the ball park of what the Church has accepted.

"Followed pathologically by lies #4-6, which, if you had so much as recognized me from previous discourse, you would and --probably do-- know are lies."

I recognize your incoherent discourse from before just fine. You are epistemologically naive and ignorant, which is why you have to resort to flailing your hands while incanting "lies".

"#1: I'm not protestant, nor am I epistemologically reliant in any specially protestant fashion."

You are epistemologically reliant on solely yourself. Just like the Protestant heresiarchs and other such solo-denominational persons. Self-project much? It doesn't matter if you don't call yourself Protestant, so long as the umbrella term of it applies. You assume the "holy spirit" interprets arbitrarily anything you want and desire.

Assume the holy spirit as thou wilt shall be the whole of your law. But I repeat myself.

My position, which isn't my innovation, is in line with the last two millennia of Church history and the Old Testament period. It is one coherent and consistent paradigm of faith, which has progressed only in articulation over time with revelation. That is the standard and not any list of persons as such, who in this case, are to varying modes witnesses and confessors to that faith. Anyone can have access to that counsel if they are willing to seek the visible and indivisible Body of Christ.

"Dan, you're pathologically shitting up this blog,"

Was it the holy spirit who told you to fill your comment here with incessant references to excrement?

Blogger bw April 13, 2021 5:01 PM  

an obvious setup broadcast in order to establish his nonexistent "right wing" credentials

Exactly.
Lotsa interesting "things" came out of McGill U

Blogger bw April 13, 2021 5:23 PM  

This is literally the Muslim critique of Christianity

^^^^^

anti-trinitarian
the East (4/5) has always started with Trinity and Christology and gone from there.

Blogger bw April 13, 2021 5:52 PM  

"many sheep are without and many wolves are within." St. Augustine

thy name is Irony

Blogger Douglas Brown April 13, 2021 6:01 PM  

Hate to say but there are still a heck of a lot of Anti-Trinitarians out there:
http://www.newagegod.com/healthark/doormedia/antitrinity.htm

Blogger Nemesis The Warlock April 13, 2021 7:57 PM  

So, as expected, everyone has stood firm and not budged an inch on their entrenched positions, good for you.
Let me then be clear on my position. If you are here, you have probably, like me, already chosen your side. You have dedicated yourself to fighting for all that is Good, Beautiful and True. If you are baptised into the saving name of Christ and are willing to fight to your last breath against the darkness engulfing our world, then I am glad to fight at your side whatever your denomination. If you are not baptised, then you must surely by now be aware of what is going on and what is coming, so what's stopping you? Pick the denomination that seems right to you, get baptised, take on the saving name of Christ and prepare yourself for the battle to come.
The fact is, none of us get to decide who will be deemed righteous, we see only through a glass darkly, but, when Jesus returns, we will find out who is worthy. If I turn out to be wrong and am denied entry to the Kingdom, so be it, I don't deserve it anyway, but I'll at least have the satisfaction of knowing I fought and died alongside some of those who will be accepted and maybe helped them get there too. If I am adjudged worthy, I pray that I see as many of you there as possible. I would hope that you all feel the same way and when it comes to the battle, if you see some crazed long haired Scots biker ramming wooden spikes up the bastards and setting fire to them, come and say "Hi".
Whatever happens my dear brothers and sisters, always remember, DEUS VULT!

Blogger Chill Penguin April 14, 2021 10:24 AM  

@175 did Jesus and the prophets follow that standard, don't talk about shit as a metaphor for bad arguments, or are you once again preaching for doctrine commandments of men? Malachi goes further and calls the masses and rosaries of the Church priesthood of his day dung. God is serious enough about false religion that His prophets repeatedly use fornication as a metaphor for it. The Bible is available for a dollar at Dollar Tree and for free as a phone app.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 14, 2021 10:30 AM  

@180,

Hello.
I found your comment initially heartening, but ultimately depressing.
Our God is not the author of confusion.

You queried whether you would be 'deemed righteous', as if there is is some kind of mystery about how to be righteous that will only be revealed on the day of Jesus' return.

But that isn't the case is it? You either ARE righteous, or you are not, there is no 'deeming' involved.

If you don't know what living righteously entails, pray on the matter and the Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth. Jesus gave you the answer though, and Moses, and John, and Paul:

IF YOU LOVE HIM, OBEY HIS LAWS.

The greatest crime against humanity in the past 2,000 years has been the churches teaching ONLY the first chapter of 1 John, up until the the closing verses regarding no man having no sin, and then never teaching the following chapters of 1 John, which all make it crystal clear that if you are in Christ, it is literally impossible to sin. You will submit to the the Holy Spirit, to God, as if a child, and be taught His laws, and will obey them, all of them.

Because that is why Jesus died, so that we can defeat sin, defeat the devil. Go and read the whole of 1st John, and if you are not living righteously, and you know that it is required to enter the kingdom, you will be taught, rest assured.

Your eagerness for a physical battle is also depressing, as we do not fight against flesh and blood enemies, we fight against the demons. DO not murder, do not return evil with evil, basic teachings of God and Jesus.

If you think it's a mystery as to who is going to be saved, you are admitting you have zero faith, and you are admitting you don't live a righteous life, walking as the Lord walked. You have not kept on the narrow path.

I hope you will therefore repent and BE righteous and BE saved. And I will see you on the other side if you do so.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 14, 2021 10:45 AM  

@180 you are too gloomy, the saved know that they are saved. many prooftexts, but here's John 6
> This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
...
> Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you that believe not.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 14, 2021 2:05 PM  

"Pretend quote followed by an attempt at a self-righteous metaphor. I know some things don't translate well over text but that was definitely not me complaining about anything."

No, accurate assessment of meaning followed no metaphor at all, but rather the assertion that your reliable wrongness indicates you are wicked rather than mistaken. You claimed I was stalking you, and that isn't a complaint, nor did I claim it was. It was a hysterical lie.

"A lie in your book evidently means virtually anything you don't agree with."

That is another lie, else cite evidence.

Me: "That would the part be where you've claimed that epistemology is ultimately circularly founded within the self, a position you never claimed to have left."

You: "Go on and quote me. Make sure you look up the definition of solipsism first before you do liar. And quote that too."

You: "Circularity is not unfounded, it is self-founded IF it accounts for the paradigm as a whole." ~October 28 2020, https://voxday.blogspot.com/2020/10/a-trilemma-transition.html

Solipsism: "Solipsism (Listeni/ˈsɒlᵻpsɪzəm/; from Latin solus, meaning "alone", and ipse, meaning "self")[1] is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. As an epistemological position, solipsism holds that knowledge of anything outside one's own mind is unsure; the external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist."

Your position about epistemology asserts that circular coherency is the only possible foundation of knowledge. This logically includes your own knowledge, and thus your statement, while not intending to state that you base your own knowledge circularly, logically necessitates that interpretation. You are by logical necessity a solipsist according to yourself.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 14, 2021 2:06 PM  

"Luther's primary goal in questioning the canon was to reject the importance of works. I suppose you're going to deny that too. His disposition was already toward heresy."

You're reporting your own assumption of Luther's motives, rather than addressing my statement that he recognized and accepted the same canon as the Roman church of his time. Your reply is therefore both irrelevant and spurious.

Direct question, Karelian: Do you or do you not agree that Luther recognized the same canon as the Roman church of his time?

"I take exception to anyone who thinks they alone or with their sect can determine what the canon of Scripture is"

I take exception to pathological liars.

"I recognize your incoherent discourse from before just fine. You are epistemologically naive and ignorant"

A statement that you have ever provided precisely zero evidence for apart from your statement on the matter. You, the pathological liar. Put up or shut up.

"You are epistemologically reliant on solely yourself."

Irony, considering your own epistemological opinion of ultimate circularity. No, I'm epistemologically foundationalist or infinite-progressionist. Put up or shut up.

"You assume the "holy spirit" interprets arbitrarily anything you want and desire."

Put up or shut up.

"My position, which isn't my innovation, is in line with the last two millennia of Church history and the Old Testament period."

Ah yes, the old Karelian fallback, appeal to authority that upon any attempt at inspection, turns out to disagree rather violently with you.

Cool story Karelian, coincidentally another lie. Coherently state your position, in your own words. Your position cannot be "I am in line with all of Church history and tradition!" without evidence to support that claim, particularly since it is contradicted by your epistemological solipsism and reflexive lying.

"Was it the holy spirit who told you to fill your comment here with incessant references to excrement?"

No, it was simply an accurate metaphor. Would you rather I refer to you as a whitewashed tomb filled with rotting corpses, which is undoubtedly even more unclean? Prove you are not a shitter if you don't like it.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit April 14, 2021 8:31 PM  

@147 your perception [of my position has changed]

It was based on your previous posts. Can you not perceive how glad I am to be wrong?

Correction accepted and confirmed, for the ankle-biters btw.

Godspeed

Blogger Dan Karelian April 14, 2021 10:04 PM  

@184

"You claimed I was stalking you, and that isn't a complaint, nor did I claim it was. It was a hysterical lie."

"You fall into this category, and are complaining about being stereotyped by your past actions."

You filthy, filthy liar.

"That is another lie, else cite evidence."

Evidence cited.

"Circularity is not unfounded, it is self-founded IF it accounts for the paradigm as a whole."

Yes, I'm not referring to my selfhood as the foundation there. Capital K Knowledge is an uncreated energy of God in which we can participate in.

"You are by logical necessity a solipsist according to yourself."

What my paradigm can account for, solipsism by logical necessity cannot.

Failure to once again properly distinguish between metaphysics and epistemology. You're going to keep doing that, just watch.


@185

Luther accepted that canon with his own reordering. The end result is not addressing the problem of his arrogation of authority to doubt the position of any book in the canon in the first place.

"Your reply is therefore both irrelevant and spurious."

Have you ever even read this guy and what he says about his position on works and it's obvious conflict with James 2, as well as many other such passages?

"A statement that you have ever provided precisely zero evidence for apart from your statement on the matter."

A statement that I have demonstrated previously and you yourself do in the next quote. Your inability to recognize that bears no relevance.

"Irony, considering your own epistemological opinion of ultimate circularity. No, I'm epistemologically foundationalist or infinite-progressionist. Put up or shut up."

That's right, you are not able to commit to one of two mutually exclusive epistemological positions. Neither one of which can lead you to epistemological certitude, coherence or comprehensiveness. Demonstrably naive and ignorant.

"Put up or shut up."

Okay, how do you now how to test the Spirit? Do you have to read and interpret the Scripture to do so or not?
What was it that you called yourself again, a foundationalist?

"Ah yes, the old Karelian fallback, appeal to authority that upon any attempt at inspection, turns out to disagree rather violently with you."

Which authority would that be that you are inspecting? Your own independent and self-reliant interpretation of Scripture, of course. That's always what it amounts to.

"Would you rather I refer to you as a whitewashed tomb filled with rotting corpses, which is undoubtedly even more unclean?"

I'm sure your desire is to steep to evermore degenerate language. Prove your not being escorted by demons who whisper these sordid expressions for the sake of what you deem "accurate".

Blogger LadyGerbil April 15, 2021 7:57 AM  

@Karelian,

Interpret this:

>'And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught.'

>'25All this I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.'

You enjoy arguing with Jesus' own words I see.
No wonder God is very angry with the world.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 15, 2021 12:49 PM  

@182
> if you are in Christ, it is literally impossible to sin

the Romans 7 position is more complex than that

> or we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 15, 2021 2:30 PM  

@189,

The tense was switched in those verses, to make it look as though Paul was still struggling with sin. He wasn't. Read the verses either side, and the chapters either side, you will see the glaringly obvious switcheroo, of what you quoted, all past tense, as with the other verses/chapters.

Then the romans switched it to present tense, to stitch Paul up. He had long ago defeated sin, but the romans wanted it to appear that nobody could ever live perfectly, despite Jesus saying 'be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect'.

Being perfect is easy, read all of 1st John, it is impossible to sin, if you submit to the Holy Spirit and its teaching of the laws of God, as Paul did. But nowadays, hardly anyone does, hence, end times are a go.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 15, 2021 3:13 PM  

> Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
why? because in Heaven you can be without sin

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 15, 2021 6:49 PM  

"You filthy, filthy liar."

Put up or shut up.

"Yes, I'm not referring to my selfhood as the foundation there."

You were supporting the circularity or coherence argument, so, yes, you were.

"Capital K Knowledge is an uncreated energy of God in which we can participate in."

Ahh, see, you never said anything of this sort in the prior thread, so, your position has changed and you're pretending you held this all along. This is foundationalism.

"Failure to once again properly distinguish between metaphysics and epistemology."

You keep lying about this with no more support than your statement. Put up or shut up.

"Luther accepted that canon with his own reordering."

That is a flat lie. The rest of your statement is still irrelevant and spurious. If he took the same things as the same Church, then, by you valued works, he showed himself no different from them. I seem to remember you saying that Luther felt the opposite of about works. Irony doubly in that you yourself show as dishonest by your works.

"A statement that I have demonstrated previously and you yourself do in the next quote. Your inability to recognize that bears no relevance."

Your inability to support this is the only thing of relevance coming from your general direction.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 15, 2021 6:49 PM  

"That's right, you are not able to commit to one of two mutually exclusive epistemological positions."

Foundationalism and infinite progressionism are two different names for the same thing, but you would know this if you comprehended the previous thread we are now referring to.

"neither one of which can lead you to epistemological certitude, coherence or comprehensiveness. Demonstrably naive and ignorant."

Your yourself are now presenting as foundationalist upon God. The snake changes his skin, and pretends that the man has as well, because the snake can imagine nothing else, snake Karelian. If my original position is not supported, neither is your supposed new one, snake.

"Okay, how do you now how to test the Spirit? Do you have to read and interpret the Scripture to do so or not?"

You don't have to read Scripture, but it helps a lot. For since the beginning of the world, God's invisible qualities, eternal power, and divine nature have been seen, being made known so that ALL MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE. You are exposed to the truth either way, but reading will most likely help you pick up on it, snake.

"Which authority would that be that you are inspecting? Your own independent and self-reliant interpretation of Scripture, of course."

On the contrary, I've been stating my positions at each step of the way, such as about the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which you did not agree with in the prior thread. So, what we have here is a retarded snake changing his skin once again, and then pretending that he was the original man, who edified him, all along. I have shown this from the beginning, where to you it is a recent convenient acquisition to support your skin changing, and of course you now maliciously assume that I must claim that the Holy Spirit directs whatever I wish, because that is what you yourself are doing order to change your skin without fixing your spirit or your heart.

"Your own independent and self-reliant interpretation of Scripture, of course. That's always what it amounts to."

Shall I state it again? I am ultimately reliant on the Holy Spirit, where you place your sect as a gatekeeper to it. You are a snake, a deceiver, a liar, and I predicted that you would be angling this way in my first two responses to you in this very thread. Here we now are.

"I'm sure your desire is to steep to evermore degenerate language."

Rather, I would be much more pleased if degenerate you, who can only be accurately referred to with disgusting language, were gone. I'll speak the truth, and the truth about creatures like you is unfortunately not pretty.

"Prove your not being escorted by demons who whisper these sordid expressions for the sake of what you deem "accurate"."

I have the Holy Spirit, myself, my kin, my nation, in that order of priority. Direct and final question Dan, can you know the Holy Spirit without the interpretation, by other men, of scriptures and/or the Holy Spirit? I have already answered this question in this comment, you would-be gatekeeping snake.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 15, 2021 7:03 PM  

I agree even with the Scripture, where it states that men are by nature now spiritually dead, and cannot even be brought to repentance without the guidance and intervention of the Holy Spirit on their behalf.

You on the other hand posit your sect as the secret kings of the spiritual world, sole interpreters of God to all men.

You are fortunate that I am not naïve or a child, Karelian. My relationship with the Holy Spirit is between me and him. You cannot step between at this phase. However, should you succeed in leading the little ones to follow you astray, you will be be held terribly accountable by God when you come to the judgement.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine April 15, 2021 7:27 PM  

"Which authority would that be that you are inspecting?

The one you magically fail to ever quite quote or direct toward, because we predict your responses on the matter and show them wrong ahead of you. Then you ask us our positions, take them up yourself, and pretend that it is by dishonesty we arrived at them before you, since you arrived at them only by dishonesty and mimicry yourself.

If you want to appeal to ecclesiastic history or tradition, you first, snake. You are quite the impressive skinwalker in sheep's skin, so reveal what you haven't learned from us. Show the evidence for your position beyond your own sheer statements. This is, what, the fifth time I've challenged you with this? You have yet to attempt, yet alone meet the challenge.

Blogger LadyGerbil April 16, 2021 7:23 AM  

Stop looking for excuses for your sin, be perfect, as Jesus commanded:

2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears,a we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure.b

4Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.c 5But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

7Little children,d let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil.

9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God,'

If you still sin (sin is lawlessness) you are not in Christ, Satan still has you, so repent, urgently.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 16, 2021 9:26 AM  

@196 was Peter saved when he denied Christ?

Blogger Fr. VF April 16, 2021 10:00 AM  

"If a "leader" is not stressing that the world is supposed to hate you then HE IS of the enemy."

Blogger LadyGerbil April 16, 2021 2:30 PM  

Peter's denial of Christ was a trespass against Christ and God. There is no law on that matter, it is not therefore sin, and his trespass was forgiven very shortly thereafter, as one would expect. Just weak faith, which he subsequently rebuilt and then some, dying a glorious martyr's death. Not to be confused with ongoing disobedience of the laws given to Moses.

Pray that you are spared to die as a martyr.

Blogger Chill Penguin April 16, 2021 3:47 PM  

> 32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

it's a commandment of Christ with a punishment attached. In Job 31, Job thinks
> This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above

but you're denying Christ's admonition to be perfect by trying to find a lesser standard of good enough that you can hope to live up to by your works and thus get into Heaven without being washed in the blood of the Lamb

Paul says
> I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

but what did Paul do wrong stoning blasphemers as a Pharisee?

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