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Saturday, July 17, 2021

But what about ME?

It's not surprising to see how many of the good responsible conservatives who paid back their student loans are gnashing their teeth over the possibility that someone, somewhere, might be freed from debt-slavery.

But what about me? What about we poor rich kids who never had to borrow so much as a dime to pay for college? Isn't it even more unfair that we a) had to pay ridiculously inflated prices because all those nasty little poor people were allowed to spend someone else's money, and, b) we weren't given any financial aid grants and were forced to pay the full retail price for the mere crime of having lots of money?

All right, I'm exaggerating. We didn't actually pay for school. Our daddies did. See, that right there, that's grit, that's what that is. The Boomers are right. Just stop whining and do what I did. It wasn't hard at all.

But it's still unfair! How will WE benefit from a student loan debt jubilee? Why isn't anyone thinking about ME and MY compensation? I mean, how can I possibly benefit from the housing market not completely collapsing because 45 million of the most educated people in America can't qualify for a mortgage? What good is it to me if 45 million people suddenly have the ability to save money for the first time in their lives? I mean, it's not as if savings = investment, or that I is a core component of Gross Domestic Product, right?

Why won't you shed a tear for me?

Labels: ,

214 Comments:

1 – 200 of 214 Newer› Newest»
Blogger MATT July 17, 2021 11:33 AM  

Its easy, you just have to live in a car for 5 years and work 2 full time jobs that you cant find.

Blogger Thomas Howard July 17, 2021 11:38 AM  

I've got 200k in medical school loan debt and I would sure appreciate being able to use that freed up cash on a nice 911 GT3 RS. I'm on board with the plan.

Blogger Trump2020 July 17, 2021 11:39 AM  

One possibility that would have widespread support from the citizenry is to retroactively make the interest 0% so people would just pay back what was originally borrowed. So if an individual borrowed $80,000 and has made $30,000 worth of payments they would owe $50,000 despite of what their balance currently states.

To those who think that any debt forgiveness is "unfair" you may be correct. You may have worked a second or third job and sacrificed but you would be getting the same outcome as those who did not work as long. For the Christians consider Matthew 20 1:16.

Blogger kurt9 July 17, 2021 11:42 AM  

As usual, Karl has the most sensible comments about the student debt mess:

What's the answer? Simple -- force the colleges to cut that crap out by removing the money.

No more federal student loan backing of any sort. Pell Grants and perhaps Stafford for undergrad, ok. Beyond that? Nothing. Period.

No more bankruptcy exemption. Force lenders to underwrite both students and programs or run the risk of a bankruptcy filing after graduation that causes the lender to eat the balance.

Ban co-signers on such loans as void due to public policy. No, Mom and/or Dad do not get stuck if you can't pay post-graduation.

Do those three things and cost of said "education" disappears instantly like a fart in a Church; those programs that cannot justify their expense with real-world earnings will be impossible to fund and thus will disappear.

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=242908

Aaron Clary (aka Captain Capitalism) has had perspective on this over the years. He is generally worth reading and listening to as well.

Blogger Fozzy Bear July 17, 2021 11:47 AM  

I looked up Navient as mentioned in the last thread, and the latest news is that the 2nd circuit has joined the 5th and 10th in declaring that private student loans are in fact dischargeable in bankruptcy, but the loan companies continue to lie and harass bankrupt students into paying what they no longer owe.

Blogger Laughingdog July 17, 2021 11:48 AM  

My parents were both born a year before the cusp of when the boomers are said to have started. My mom turned more and more left over the years, and clearly regretted being a little too old to be a full-on hippie. My dad was conservative and, while generally being an angry and violent person, never seemed to buy into the typical Boomer stuff that was pushed so hard in the 70s and 80s.

In retrospect, the clearest difference between the two of them was that he had to work as a golf caddy before college and scrubbed dishes during college to pay for his engineering degree. My mom got her accounting degree later, on his dime, before ultimately deciding she didn't like accounting and moved into other lower paying work.

Around the time he passed, if you'd commented about Social Security being a ponzi scheme, he'd nod his head and agree, and comment that it's BS that my generation is getting bagged by that. She continues to get outraged and lash out with "i paid into that. I'm entitled to that money", and gets more outraged when I say I've paid in more at this point, so what about me?

Blogger Unknown July 17, 2021 11:50 AM  

This actually isn't that difficult.

One of Joe Biden's few accomplishments when he was in the federal Senate for thirty six years was to get legislation through that treated debt obtained for educational purposes different from all other debt. The debtor could not declare bankruptcy and get the debt discharged. All you need to do to fix the problem, and it is a problem, is the repeal of that legislation, and people who took loans for education, and can't repay because they can't get hired for jobs with enough salary to cover the interest and principal (these days, pretty much everyone), can go into bankruptcy. Without the federal government acting as the goon, probably these loans will no longer be offered, and tuition won't be as inflated.

People are creative with coming up with lots of ideas on this subject, but really that is all that needs to be done.

Blogger Countrylawyer July 17, 2021 11:51 AM  

I worked in that vineyard all day and it’s just not right that these guys who started an hour before quitting time make the same as me.

Blogger pyrrhus July 17, 2021 11:52 AM  

Yep...My (not at all rich) family paid for all four of our educations at mostly top schools back in the 60's and early 70's because that was possible before the massive inflation caused by college loans had occurred..And we kids worked as well...But now that is impossible, and becoming more impossible every day...The system needs a complete reboot, elimination of the Federal Guaranteed student loan program, and dischargeability in bankruptcy restored..A debt jubilee is good, but doesn't go far enough.

Blogger Trey July 17, 2021 11:53 AM  

I agree that it is time for a student loan debt jubilee, but unless someone pays a price for the current foolishness, it will just happen again. Typically, the lender pays the price for making foolish loans, and this makes them (hopefully) more careful. With student loan forgiveness, the pain is socialized, so there's no reason not to do it again.
I would like to see the university cover some portion of the debt they helped incur. Maybe half, out of their endowments, or maybe they will need to sell a climbing gym or two. Either way, they should be made to think twice before helping create another such mess.
It needs to happen, but passing on the cost would certainly help make it more palatable.

Blogger Romans 12:2 July 17, 2021 11:53 AM  

Me and my c-c-c-c-compensation

Blogger Happy Housewife July 17, 2021 11:54 AM  

My husband and I worked very hard to pay our student loans off. I thought they were exorbitant at the time, but when I learned about friends' and coworkers' levels of student loan debt, I was floored. Six figures is all too common.

Would gladly support wiping it all out for everyone. Gladly. I just don't understand the mentality of "it's their fault, no one made them do it", when an entire generation forced their children to go to college because they raised them to believe it was the only option for success. What else were they supposed to do when their parents refused to help?

Zero accountability for this taken by the Boomer generation. Zero. All they have are insults and sociopathic levels of lacking sympathy.

Blogger Swamp Fox July 17, 2021 11:56 AM  

Fortunately my boomer parents paid for my undergrad. Good for me.

I completely support the Biblical notion of debt forgiveness as well as outlawing usury. Good for the current generation.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 17, 2021 11:56 AM  

Most of the people with money are the last people you would trust with money. Let's make everyone poor again so we can appreciate the good things in life.

Blogger van helsing July 17, 2021 11:56 AM  

i have long figured i wont see squat out of SS. especially after inflation. dont think it will be any better for youse. make separate plans.

Blogger RedJack July 17, 2021 11:59 AM  

My wife and I had a disagreement about this.

Just because we managed to pay off the fraud doesn't mean we should keep the rest of those in chains just to sooth our ego.

Blogger Seeingsights July 17, 2021 11:59 AM  

In a debt jubilee, the only ones adversely affected are money lenders.

I don't know how some folks feel, but I don't give a damn about money lenders.

Even better if colleges would be on the hook for student loan forgiveness. Then you would have two liberal globalist institutions, higher education and the big banks, hit hard.

Blogger Trey July 17, 2021 12:00 PM  

Fozzy Bear wrote:I looked up Navient as mentioned in the last thread, and the latest news is that the 2nd circuit has joined the 5th and 10th in declaring that private student loans are in fact dischargeable in bankruptcy, but the loan companies continue to lie and harass bankrupt students into paying what they no longer owe.

This is the easiest solution. If this debt can be discharged through bankruptcy like any other, the borrower will pay a small price (bad credit rating, which many will happily endure), but it will give lenders pause on this foolishness moving forward. Assuming the lenders don't get big sugar daddy to take on the debt.

Blogger Cass Milton July 17, 2021 12:03 PM  

The free college and loan forgiveness is disincentivsing unsustainable and patronage at the most obvious. This is an example of bread and circuses. That is the core of the complaint.

Blogger Nick July 17, 2021 12:05 PM  

We need to also reform credit card debt. Insane interest rates that inslave people for decades. Bankers are banksters ( organized crime). But the Republicans would never go for it, though AOC and the Democratic caucus surely would

Blogger Jonathan July 17, 2021 12:11 PM  

I am all for student loan debt forgiveness. I paid my way through school so this might be unfair to me. But life isn't fair and we all need to accept that.

My only concern is what is the plan after the debt is wiped away? What's the new system going to be?

Blogger dds July 17, 2021 12:13 PM  

Rich kids and their daddies?

That's a grossly warped perception of reality--what a ridiculous conception.

These are not rich kids who's daddy paid for their college.

Its lower middle class kids who worked and made huge sacrifices to get advanced education in REAL disciplines.

Not status seeking fools who took degrees in womens studies and art that could not pay off in 100 years.

But they took the stupid degress with all the virtue signalling it entailed, without an ounce of talent, and now its MY problem since I paid mine back.

This is subsidizing parasitism and stupidity to no end.

This is actually classic socialist thinking--- subsidize the rich AND the stupid on the backs of the productive--wherever you can find them.

Ethics are done in the West. Even here now.

Blogger Just Another Curmudgeon July 17, 2021 12:13 PM  

hahaha "What about me?" I'm the victim! No, you're the fool. Millions of "highly educated" air breathers out there who can't get a job with their $100K "social studies" degrees. Poor buggers. Learn to code or turn a wrench.

Blogger Mamabear37 July 17, 2021 12:15 PM  

Does Debt jubilee mean my kids may have the opportunity for post secondary degrees without going into debt? If so, awesome. No one should pay more than 10 cents for the "education" coming out of universities these days. C.S. Lewis was fluent in French, Latin, and learning Greek by age 15, and already was bemoaning the education system; he accurately predicted our current state of academic affairs in
"Screwtape Proposes a Toast"

http://www.samizdat.qc.ca/arts/lit/Toast_CSL.pdf

Hence homeschooling.

Blogger Jon W July 17, 2021 12:16 PM  

Some K's are only K's because they were denied the ability to be an R

Blogger Axe July 17, 2021 12:18 PM  

I don't really care what my fellow man does as long as I don't have to bail them out later ... whether it's a 'too big to fail' Corp or an arts major who dreams of teaching my children trans theory. If a debt-jubilee solves the problem of evil choices, I'm all for it ... I'm not convinced that is the case though.

Blogger Angantyr July 17, 2021 12:19 PM  

"How will WE benefit from a student loan debt jubilee?"

So long as the cost is absorbed by the lender and the college, and not a taxpayer bailout, the benefit to all of America is immense. For starters, any degree suffixed with the word "studies" will evaporate like a mud puddle in mid-summer in Death Valley, and return a degree of seriousness and rigor to higher learning. "Wokeness" will likewise too get the boot. And, of course, college costs will plummet like a rock.

Anything that ultimately removes distortion and lies from the world is a good thing.

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 17, 2021 12:20 PM  

The top Universities are hedge funds with a vestigal educational apparatus. The vestigal apparatus having been converted to political indoctrination of it's supporters.

Blogger VD July 17, 2021 12:22 PM  

That's a grossly warped perception of reality--what a ridiculous conception.

It's not a warped perception at all.

Its lower middle class kids who worked and made huge sacrifices to get advanced education in REAL disciplines.

Who cares about some smelly poor people who borrowed money to bring down the tone of the campus. What about MEEEEE?

You're totally discounting the unfairness to me, and that's the real issue here.

Blogger Arizona July 17, 2021 12:23 PM  

I'll never pay off my degree in Lesbian Interpretive Dance ...... Not because I'm not making Kajillions of dollars but because I just want to stiff the man ..... you know the sap that dependably rats himself out to the IRS every April 15th to keep the Gub Machine running ............ Remember, you can never have enough Gub. The only Edu you got was was financial and a learned appreciation for dependency on Gub.

Blogger MichaelJMaier July 17, 2021 12:25 PM  

I don't care about me or fairness. I just don't see the point of paying it off via jubilee if the taxpayers just stick the same fucking hook right back in their mouth again.

I want to see the banksters hang but we all know that's not happening unless the world collapses, and probably not even then.

Blogger Jeff aka Orville July 17, 2021 12:28 PM  

I'm all for a debt jubilee across the board and I'm saying that as a person who racked up stupid debt in my younger years on top of student loans. We worked our ass off to get and stay debt free.

The reason I'm for a debt jubilee is that usury is a hideous curse on society. Particularly on the younger crowd who are trying to establish a family.

Blogger Fishslinger Bear July 17, 2021 12:30 PM  

Who are y’all trying to convince to forgive the debt? None of us reading this can and politicians are just puppets so they can’t. So I’m just curious, who is the puppet master(s) that need convincing or is this a willing an idea into reality thing? No sarcasm intended, I’m fine with debt forgiveness, I am seriously asking.

Blogger twoplustwoequalsfour July 17, 2021 12:31 PM  

What's unfair about loan forgiveness is schools get bailed out scot-free. The blame for selling students a BS in BS so they can buy an MA in BS and never earn jack shit has to fall on the people that sold it, at least partially.

Have debt relief for ONLY people who can legitimately default (thereby answering the objection objected to in your post), and then when a certain number of graduates of a program default, the schools that ripped them off can then cover at least part of the debt. Otherwise it's a multi-decade transfer of cash from the gov to the universities with suckers serving as middlemen.

Do it this way and "Navel-Studies" programs go away overnight, and commie factory universities lose prestige, money, and influence.

Blogger Kingly Gift July 17, 2021 12:35 PM  

Civilizational collapse is marked by people who won't even bother to defend the walls of the besieged city they are in. Many such cases throughout history. No one is willing to put themselves at any risk to preserve their system because deep down they know it has become corrupt and deserves to fail.

Maybe the boomer, for all his faults, still understand on some deep level that their culture must be put out of it's misery. This is why they have no interest in planting oaks for their grandchildren, they know on some intuitive sub-conscious level, that it must burn to ash so that it can be rebuilt from scratch without the usury and vain indulgence that has contaminated every fiber of the current system.



Blogger carnaby July 17, 2021 12:35 PM  

College at UBC in Canada is top notch and tuition is only $5k, same as I paid when I went there. My 20 year old son is going there now even though we live in the USA. He was born in Canada and so qualifies. In Canada it's just a question of whether or not you are a Canadian person, doesn't matter your province or country of residence.

The rich foreign Chinese pay big $$ to go there. They don't call it the University of a Billion Chinese for nothing.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 17, 2021 12:35 PM  

As we may observe from the crash of 2007, anything that bails the people out of debt is off the table.
But banks are priority 1. Biggest donors and money launderers and all that.
As for fairness. Well consider that one of the reasons why the minorities were not so hot for feeling the Bern with Bernie Sanders, in particular on education costs and insurance, is because unlike the white Bernie bros, the browns already get the bennies and gibs that Bernie promised. The young white lefty Bernie bros still miss this diversity elephant in the room: they are alone in this because they are the wallet.
This brings us back to student loans and the next elephant in the room to be missed.
The brown people already got the gibs and freebies. The boomers were handed their bootstraps and got to pay their way through college by waiting tables and still had enough left over to put a down payment on a house after graduation and buy a used Corvette.

But it's the white kids of today, raised by greedy boomers or broken GenXers lacking money for education and not being poor sweet innocent brown victim enough to get gibs. They will be alone on this matter. And most of them won't know how deeply race is involved.

So if you support western civilization, a student debt jubilee is the way to go. Given the ethnic and racial forces involved, and the ((hidden hand)) as usual, it probably won't go far. Maybe if we spelled it "jewbilee" at least boomers might be tricked into supporting it as mindlessly as everything else involving Jews.

Since the kids are already broke enough and rootless enough, might as well just not pay. The system won't know what to do with tens of millions of people that they can't take anything from. It would be a brilliant revolution were no shit is fired, the sort a Chinese general would appreciate.

Blogger sammibandit July 17, 2021 12:37 PM  

I really don't care if someone took a so-called stupid degree. If your argument against jubilee rests on that, you don't have one. A stone cannot be bled.

Blogger Zundfolge July 17, 2021 12:37 PM  

I dropped out of college because I didn't want to go into debt. So yeah, the idea that all these fools that took the debt pill getting off scott free does kinda stick in my craw ... but at this point the student loan system has been set up so corruptly that I can't be too mad at people that were burned by it getting cut loose.

As long as they end the government backed loan system completely in the same fell swoop. Otherwise we're just telling future generations that college is free and mama government is there to wipe your backside when you choose foolishly.

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 17, 2021 12:39 PM  

Support of Usury is the REAL ETHICAL POSITION!

Blogger Kingly Gift July 17, 2021 12:40 PM  

@18 Trey Good point! Student debt forgiveness via bankruptcy would be the best way for this debt burden to be washed away. The subsequent poor credit ratings due to bankruptcy for millions of young people would also cause a more long term suppression of further debt, which would check the looming inflation.

Blogger Gen. Kong July 17, 2021 12:41 PM  

The complainers either utterly fail to grasp the concept of greater enemy vs. lesser enemy or they're in on the racket in some way. A debt jubilee would do considerable damage to the usury racket - a far greater enemy than some fool who borrowed money for a worthless degree in Lesbian Interpretive Dance. Idiots - like the poor - will always be with us. The usurers and their "free market" have been strip-mining entire nations. Who serves the devil more effectively?

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 17, 2021 12:41 PM  

Usury can not be stopped unless the survivors agree to free the currently entrapped.

Blogger Tallen July 17, 2021 12:47 PM  

How do I benefit from students paying back their loans or passing the debt on to someone else? More money into FBI surveillance? Make faceless groups like Blackrock even more wealthy?

Bring on the jubilee.

Blogger Zorlig July 17, 2021 12:47 PM  

We lived on nothing for 2-3 years to pay the bulk of student loans then kept saving for a down payment right after the 08 crash. It worked, eventually, but it set us back years. It's not like our boomer parents couldn't have paid for it but I'm thankful they at least paid for more than half, lots of people got it much worse.

Blogger Libertarian July 17, 2021 12:50 PM  

Loan forgiveness for STEM graduates, debtor's prison for feminist intersectionality graduates.

Blogger Allen July 17, 2021 12:51 PM  

One of the things so annoying about the boomer attitude is that some people can never just shut the fuck up and listen. I paid my own way through college so I had no student loan debt, "well ain't you the cat's ass." The thing is, that was a different world, and I don't have to deal with what younger people have to deal with so my history is completely irrelevant to them.

So maybe, just maybe, the younger people have some good ideas and older people just need to let go, and let them develop their own solutions to problems in life. That's the primary boomer symptom, some people just can't let go. Whatever I might think about wiping out student loan debt doesn't really matter. It will matter to the young people advocating implementing it. Their circus, their monkey. If it should come to pass I hope it works out.

Blogger crash July 17, 2021 12:57 PM  


It won't be forgiven, it will be paid off. The people who are owed it will still get paid. The money will come from somewhere, and it ain't going to be from the criminals who ran the scam. They are in bed with the gov. They always get paid first
If it's done right, and punishes the actual people who ran and profited from it , most will be okay with it. Why wouldn't they be?
It just never is. Hopefully they can find a way. The people owed the money, will be the people in charge of the jubilee. If "forgiveness" actually just means "pay it off", the question is who pays it? If the people responsible do not suffer consequences they will just find a new way to victimize. And around we go.

Blogger Nihil Dicit July 17, 2021 1:09 PM  

The system won't know what to do with tens of millions of people that they can't take anything from.

We're already here, just in a disorganized fashion.


I agree that it is time for a student loan debt jubilee, but unless someone pays a price for the current foolishness, it will just happen again.

Even a half-assed knowledge of history tells us this is going to happen again (and again and again, ad infinitum) no matter what we do. The argument the "somebody gots to pay!" is just a slightly rephrased version of "what about ME?".


With student loan forgiveness, the pain is socialized, so there's no reason not to do it again.

The pain is already "socialized" in the form of a asphyxiated economy. Student debt forgiveness is just getting out in front of the inevitable next bankster bailout, hopefully soon enough to provide some benefit to the rest of the country this time 'round.

Blogger Edward Isaacs July 17, 2021 1:13 PM  

I would prefer a jubilee to the ability to file bankruptcy. I would feel guilty about filing bankruptcy but a jubilee is out of my hands, therefore not my fault/problem.

Blogger Ives July 17, 2021 1:16 PM  

A couple of weeks ago I was playing hockey with a guy in his early 30's and we got talking. He's got a pretty decent job that pays pretty well but he racked up $200,000 in student loan debt getting trained for his job. I couldn't believe it. I've heard about the student loan problems but I thought that it was heavily on people who shouldn't have been in college or people taking fake degrees. But here was a guy who had a real degree doing real work and still got completely bled out for his job. If he wasn't shackled with that debt he'd have bought a nice townhome by now and would be acquiring assets but instead he's paying the (((banksters))).

Look, we need to unshackle these young people from the debt that they were either tricked into or coerced into. My parents paid for my college and I was never shackled with student loan debt and because of that I've been able to acquire assets and have a stay at home wife taking care of my children. If we want to bring back the family and stay at home mothers and have lots of children running around the neighborhood then we need to get people out from under all of this debt that is burdening them down.

In the Old Testament the Lord laid out HIS economic system. We are commanded to unshackle debtors from their debts every 7 years. We can't be righteous followers of Jesus Christ if we refuse to obey his commandments and one of the big ones is we DON'T shackle people down with debt that can't be repaid.

Blogger Briton July 17, 2021 1:17 PM  

I would agree to get rid of the student loan debt if we cancelled the universities that made the loans at the same time. The students are mostly a combination of dumb/malevolent, but the teachers & administration is just evil.

Blogger Taignobias July 17, 2021 1:18 PM  

1. Eliminate all interest, retroactively. Lending institutions must pay out any excess interest, indexed to inflation, over a period of no more than 10 years.

2. Eliminate government backing. All government grants for universities will phase out 10% annually over the next 10 years.

3. All loans moving forward are dischargeable.

There are a lot of proposals for reducing the university monopolies, but this would be a good start.

Blogger Taignobias July 17, 2021 1:20 PM  

The medical silo is another problem worth addressing.

Blogger Across the World July 17, 2021 1:21 PM  

This will end in blood and these boomerfats are collectively attempting to pull a Louix XV. This is an evil but workable strategy if these silly old degenerates also weren’t busy transferring more and more of their resources from their usual debauchery and into their medical expenses in a desperate attempt to cling to their worthless and unhappy lives. They’ll still be around to incur the wrath of their children and in even worse shape to deal with it. And the ones who retreat to places like the Villages are just fodder for future bandits and they’re going to be like fish in a barrel.

When these boomers are broken and left for dead by migrant gangs who pilfer their belongings some will stare, still alive in shock, as their assailants run into the police who formed a protective ring around the bloodbath. They still won’t understand what is happening when the gang members and the cops shake hands, split the booty, and the cops let the gangs leave. They’ll remember the cops who were supposed to protect them used the excuse that they were all 54 and under as the reason for not coming in.

As Big Bear has pointed out there will be no realizations. No regret. The last words on their fat blubbery lips will be “So this is America???”

Blogger The Gaelic Lands July 17, 2021 1:23 PM  

Have to end the education debt bubble somehow. The politricksters who voted to block bankruptcy for student loan debt should have 20% of their net worth taken. Writing off the debt is way easier than the banksters would ever admit. The money did not exist before the loans were created so it all goes back to even after the write-off.

Blogger dienw July 17, 2021 1:27 PM  

I am astounded at these complainers' moral obtuseness. That is all I can say; for nothing will penetrate their walls of greed and envy.

Blogger Ryan G July 17, 2021 1:29 PM  

Expecting the loan companies to just take it in the shorts isn't going to happen, so that just leaves taxpayer/debt-supported payoffs. Vox excoriates the 'rich kids' who already have their debts paid off, but those of us with enough wisdom to choose a field worth a damn, who chose to live in low cost-of-living parts of the country, and who were fiscally prudent shouldn't have to pay them on principle.

In fact, I contend that it's *good*, in the long run, if we don't spare people from the consequences of their decisions. You can pontificate until you are blue in the face about how you can make it on your own without a degree, how the whole system is rigged, etc. But the lesson won't sink in for Joe and Jane Normie until it affects them, personally. All bailing these people out will do in the long run is kick the resolution of this problem down the road. Young adults will learn that if shit gets really bad, the government will just wipe away their debt. Universities will learn that they can continue to essentially defraud their customers because they'll get their money no matter what. And loan companies will continue to exist in general, enabling this whole usury based system to continue.

Blogger Pytor July 17, 2021 1:38 PM  

Women actually become prostitutes to pay off credit card debt. And Very Important Tribe is rubbing their hands with glee about that

Blogger upchuckmcduck July 17, 2021 1:41 PM  

I definitely agree that student loans and most loans should be forgiven. I really like the way Keen proposed to do it as it disarms these whiners of this talking point. His proposal is to write every person a check from the government that can only be spent on paying down debt. Those that receive that money that don't have debt can invest it in a company that does and for equity in the company via shares or bonds they take that money and can pay down their own debts. While this doesn't fix any structural issues it does write down the debt without collapsing the entire economy because the finical sector is too involved in every industry to outright destroy them, as much as I would like that to happen.

Blogger Andy July 17, 2021 1:42 PM  

Precisely.

Blogger CM July 17, 2021 1:42 PM  

I’m a millennial that went to a private school on my own financial loans dressed up as scholarships.

I paid it off in 5 years.

I still want a student loan debt jubilee.

Blogger Pratisara July 17, 2021 1:50 PM  

Capitalism does not work for healthcare and education. It works for everything else - in fact it's the only thing that works for everything else.

Blogger meanstoreveal July 17, 2021 1:51 PM  

When most of the college degrees are converged programs and the college graduates are radical SJWs and cosmopolitans, why would I be in favor of student loan forgiveness for people who hate me?

The boomer argument is insane (as usual) but I think they unintentionally arrive at the right conclusion

Blogger Hammerli 280 July 17, 2021 1:51 PM  

"We didn't actually pay for school. Our daddies did."

No, I paid for it, by dint of selling myself into indentured servitude to the Navy. And putting every penny I could save up into my education. Choose a major that pays. Pick a cheap school. Get into a co-op program. Live on campus. Do without a car.

The diploma on my wall is MINE. Not my parents'.

Blogger Hylemorphist July 17, 2021 1:53 PM  

Boomers are so easily brainwashed. Maybe try this on them:
1) Debt = Money Supply.
2) Markets are dictated by supply and demand.
3) Money is a commodity.

Therefore:
1) Decrease debt to decrease money supply.
2) Decreased supply increases demand.
3) Dollar value will increase.

So Boomers, debt cancellation will increase the value of the Dollar so you can buy more condos all over the world for your hookers and drugs.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 1:54 PM  

I am ever more convinced of the utility of the quip "Hell is other people."

No, "other" does not mean everyone but yourself. If you think it does, that reflects on you.

"The complainers either utterly fail to grasp the concept of greater enemy vs. lesser enemy or they're in on the racket in some way."

I've found it to be the latter by the end of every single argument I've had on the subject.

Blogger MLGunner July 17, 2021 1:55 PM  

Totally on board with a Student Load Jubilee, but why stop there?
Cancel all Credit Card Debt, along with the credit cards, cancel all mortgage debt, all loans from banks for all reasons.
Start everyone from scratch.
It would probably kill the fiat currency, since it is based on debt, but it is going to fail anyway and leave everyone with debts that cannot be paid (by design).
Cancelling all debt would probably be the only way to salvage wealth for the non-banker, non-cabal, non-elites.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 1:56 PM  

"Civilizational collapse is marked by people who won't even bother to defend the walls of the besieged city they are in."

An extremely important observation.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 1:56 PM  

I managed to get my engineering education without a dime in loans or even grants.

Considering how companies are vastly over-inflating the education requirements for entry level positions (listing a bachelor's degree for work which was and can be performed by high school students), I fully support sticking everyone involved in the "you MUST have a college degree to do anything more than work in fast food or as a retail "associate."

Those knowingly promulgating this scam need to pay... with ropes around their necks. This includes, especially, the businesses over-stating requirements to perform jobs, especially those in the H-1B visa fraud.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 1:57 PM  

"Maybe the boomer, for all his faults, still understand on some deep level that their culture must be put out of it's misery."

No, because he's doing everything he can to keep his paradise rolling until he shuffles off. He's just a selfish fuck.

Blogger Br1cht July 17, 2021 2:01 PM  

dds wrote:Ethics are done in the West. Even here now.

Less emotional reaction and more thoughtful contemplation, friend.

We come here in order to benefit from a sharp mind, and getting the alternative non-Kosher take, not getting validated and stroked, go to FOX, Breitbart or God forbid, Shapiro for that.



Blogger Guy Incognito July 17, 2021 2:08 PM  

I'm about as average income as they come, and have been saving in 529 plans for my elementary school aged children for a few years.

Assuming the empire still stands in ten years, they should have enough to get them through school. (Or make a hell of a down payment on their first homes after paying the penalty+tax. )


My biggest beef with the debt jubilee is that it's deeply immoral to forgive debt without reforming the college debt trap first.

As long as the empire has their tentacles in the school loan system, any forgiveness is stupid.

Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

Blogger WT874 July 17, 2021 2:11 PM  

The universities pumped out all these worthless degrees, with no shortage of disingenuiness and lies to students.. They should have their assets seized and sold off to pay for for "debt forgiveness" or whatever. And since the universities are so pozzed, nothing of value would be lost.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 2:12 PM  

>> But the Republicans would never go for it, though AOC and the Democratic caucus surely would.

The Democrats would go for it ONLY if they don't have enough votes. Seriously, the modern Democrats ARE THE PARTY OF BANKERS AND LAWYERS.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 2:14 PM  

>> These are not rich kids who's daddy paid for their college.

>> Its lower middle class kids who worked and made huge sacrifices to get advanced education in REAL disciplines.

So...f-ing what?

I'm one of those. And I can't even get work in my field (engineering), because the unstated rule is Hindus Only Need apply

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction July 17, 2021 2:14 PM  

You could just as easily expand the debt jubilee so that those who paid off their loans entirely would be eligible for mortgage debt relief. There, now you have something for every one.

Blogger meanstoreveal July 17, 2021 2:16 PM  

What political/war strategy hinges on giving your enemies resources?

9/10 people who are in student loan debt are radical SJWs and cosmopolitans. They have seized all control of every institution of power in society and we should pay for their loan debt?

I'm not against the concept of student loan forgiveness, but only for white men who get medical or engineering degrees.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 17, 2021 2:19 PM  

@3. Trump2020

Matthew 20 1:16 has to do with the right to freely contract your labor.

The "higher" lesson is that you can come into God's Kingdom even late in life.

Blogger markregan July 17, 2021 2:21 PM  

Most of the comments here are spot on. Some basic things should be clarified, however. First, a "risk free loan," where the government guarantees the lender, is completely immoral and completely perverts the entire system. Obscenely high college costs are the easily foreseeable result, where the banks and colleges are unjustly enriched - surprise, surprise! Meanwhile, student debtors are impoverished trying to repay this immoral and grossly inflated cost PLUS interest!

Blogger Jehu July 17, 2021 2:24 PM  

I've come to the conclusions that the university system in America is my mortal enemy and reforming it or taking it over is basically impossible. Therefore I want to see it destroyed in a manner very difficult to reverse. I don't support the government paying back people's student loans because of Who...Whom considerations, but I do support revoking the law preventing student loans from being discharged during bankruptcy yesterday. That puts the lenders on the hook, only some of which will get bailed out as 'too big to fail', and will make them decidedly less willing to offer loans in the future. But honestly I don't want to make the system sustainable, I want it to die. Ditto K-12.

Blogger Hates the Wicked July 17, 2021 2:33 PM  

If anything needs to be nationalized the most it is the entire finance apparatus. Debt slavery is evil and ought to be treated as a critical threat to people.

Blogger 4D MAN July 17, 2021 2:41 PM  

I didn't think I would either but I just started drawing it at age 63. It's not enough to live on by itself. Thankfully we have a paid off house and no debt. Moral of story, even if SS hangs on another generation, it's going to be a pittance. Make other plans!

Blogger 4D MAN July 17, 2021 2:43 PM  

Cancel the interest. Also loosen the bankruptcy restrictions.

Blogger 4D MAN July 17, 2021 2:45 PM  

A good compromise would be reducing the interest to zero retroactively.

Blogger DrivingDissent July 17, 2021 2:50 PM  

Student loan Forgiveness would put many schools under as the obscene gravy train of $$ would dry up fast especially for private liberal arts schools. Needless to say I'm all for student loan forgiveness..

Colleges have a long overdue day of reckoning coming and it's fitting the desolation shall come as a result of their own perfidity..

Blogger markregan July 17, 2021 2:51 PM  

Second, and what follows, is the remedy: no government guarantee of student loans, and the Constitutional right to bankruptcy restored to all student loan debt. Risk is thus returned to the lender, and the student loan industry will COLLAPSE along with the inflated college costs and the pervasive, immoral, unjust enrichment of colleges, universities, and BANKS...

Blogger Franz Lyonheart July 17, 2021 2:52 PM  

Agree with Vox. At the latest since a few years back, when I heard that there was a type of debt that cannot be discharged in bankruptcy (student loans). This provision is unreal and unethical. I do have a professional interest in the topic - and honestly, I really could not believe US Congress made a law to prevent bankruptcy. It defies both logic and any sense of morality. (Similar to the initial construction of the Euro currency, btw; declaring default ain't possible against all logic.)

Vox - you had mentioned elsewhere in the past that you are not on principle opposed to the concept of lending (loans, debt, leverage, banking, accounting, derivatives, whatever you choose to call it). But that you are vehemently opposed to usury (and observably classify student loans to fall into the usury category).

May I ask two questions:

1. I take it that "interest" (time value of money, to phrase it more theoretically or academically) on principle can be part of ethical lending.

2. where would you see the difference between unethical usury and ethical lending? It's obvious to see how "un-bankruptable debt" is clearly debt slavery/ usury. But what would be a more precise definition between the two? Is there a book or some other literature, which is useful in your view, where I could educate myself about this more deeply?

I remember you did recommend a book in the past, And Forgive Us Our Debts, written by a priest IIRC, which I intend to read. Is there anything else, something more technical that lays out a useful discrimination between ethical (or economically profitable) lending versus usury?

Grateful for any recommendation you could give me.

Blogger DeadMeat July 17, 2021 2:57 PM  

I can understand their anger to a degree. Yes, it does suck for those who did pay, but only to a degree. The nation would improve and if you're still here, you'll reap some benefit. Plus, debt jubilee was God's idea, so why do you think it will backfire or not work out right? He knows far better than you.

If, right now, a mortgage debt jubilee was declared (as if), I wouldn't care that someone just bought a house a few months ago while I bought mine a decade ago. I wouldn't care that my mortgage balance is less than half of someone else's. I would just be thankful that my balance was gone. Someone got a far nicer house and only spent a couple thousand while I got screwed through paying mostly interest all this time? Ok, whatever, I'm out of debt now and saved something.

Look for your own benefit and don't worry about anyone else's. See what you would get out of it and don't compare and contrast. Wouldn't you like to have the screws put to these SJW vermin universities? Hit them where it hurts? Wouldn't it be worth it just for that?

Blogger 5stonegames July 17, 2021 3:05 PM  

Skarp Hedin wrote:Usury can not be stopped unless the survivors agree to free the currently entrapped.

Or are eliminated by a new government, possibly one put in by force.

Blogger Karen took the Kids July 17, 2021 3:20 PM  

They are intolerable. They should use their favourite bootstraps on the nearest tree.

Blogger Andrew July 17, 2021 3:27 PM  

The fact of the matter is that a lot of people took on student debt to live well while they partied. This student debt jubilee stuff is mostly nonsense. It will also mostly benefit black women at the expense of white men. The point is not that some people paid for the college, the point is that some people didn't even bother going to college and they are the ones who will have to pay off the debt of those that did, and those that did used the money to party and learn to be assholes. Let the college graduates become a permanent serf class as punishment. I don't care.

Blogger Chill Penguin July 17, 2021 3:33 PM  

* cancel student loan debt in exchange for repossessing the degrees. the degrees can be resold and the holder of a degree can then apply to get a middle class job with it
* pay for canceling student loan debt by selling the universities for redevelopment as luxury condos and the professors for use as prostitutes or drug dealers

Blogger The Last Roman July 17, 2021 3:33 PM  

Why would anyone care if someone else's debt is forgiven? The USD is essentially worthless at this point.

Blogger Ingot9455 July 17, 2021 3:34 PM  

@33 Loads of influential people read Vox's blog to steal ideas.
Just think of what would happen if Vox got onto Alex Jones's show for an hour to talk student loan debt jubilees and taking the money from the universities?

He could get Alex chanting, "Debts that CAN'T be paid WON'T be paid!" and "If something can't go on forever, it will stop!"

How do you think ideas become mainstream?

Blogger Badpainter July 17, 2021 3:36 PM  

I fail to see how those who either paid their debts or never took on debt will be negatively effected by any student debt jubilee. Strikes me as being jealous of someone's fancy birthday gift.

Given the current fiscal debt and deficits this seems like the only way those that follow the boomers can collectively achieve any kind of social security. If the end is near then let's at least go to it with the paper debt zeroed out.

Blogger Ken Prescott July 17, 2021 3:39 PM  

There is plenty of blame to go around.

I think that those who did pay their loans off as promised need to get some sort of rebate of those funds, specifically to ameliorate their opportunity costs over those years.

Maybe this could be financed by auctioning off surplus federal assets.

Blogger Azimus July 17, 2021 3:47 PM  

I'm a late Xer, and I'm all for forgiving the debt of our younger neighbors and friends. Its not about you - these kids are drowning in debt and they have no out. Sure, call them fools. They're old enough now that most of them would agree with you, that when they were 19 they were fools - but so were you. The difference is, when you were a dumb kid, the people running the show were not falling all over each other to prey on their young. That has changed. We must change it back.

Its up to us to fix the evil and plant the acorns gentlemen. Don't plan on enjoying the fruit of it - planting acorns never were for us, or about us. This is a pretty f-ing painless way to plant some acorns, so get it together and get behind this.

Now - in a perfect world, we would win the good-will of our younger neighbors and friends, and with the same tool drive it into the skull of the predatory banks and money-lusting universities, but we can't always get everything we want.

One out of two ain't bad. Get on board.

Blogger map July 17, 2021 3:47 PM  

The fact that student loan debt is nondischargeable in bankruptcy is itself a crime. Why is this particular form of debt given this privilege but credit cards are not? It makes no sense.

The status of student loan debt can only be justified by the Parasite's Defense: either you owe the universities something, or the universities are doing you a favor.

Forcing the lender or the universities to eat the loss is just punishment for using the Parasite's Defense.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 4:05 PM  

@33 - Politics is downstream from culture. If a debt jubilee can gain momentum as an idea in the plebs, it's a help. But for right now we're dealing with 'bootstraps' from one generation and part of a 2nd, which is mine.

Blogger Manster July 17, 2021 4:23 PM  

My only concern with student debt jubilee is if we continue the same lending policies afterwards. I say this as a 34 year old with 20k+ left in student loans. Even though I would benefit from a partial or complete jubilee, the student debt problem will just be back in another 10-15 years if we continue the same policies.

Gov't has simultaneously incentivized the exponential rising of costs, while (and partially by) guaranteeing you will get a loan to pay for the inflated prices.

I signed up for loans understanding and intending to pay them back. So I have no problem with that. But if some form of "forgiveness" is to come, then it needs to be attached to a reform in the lending practices that have lead to the inflated prices to start with, imo.

Blogger MLGunner July 17, 2021 4:29 PM  

@93 Chill Penguin
"pay for canceling student loan debt by selling the universities for redevelopment as luxury condos and the professors for use as prostitutes"

Ew.
Have you MET Uni Professors?

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction July 17, 2021 4:59 PM  

Maybe the boomer, for all his faults, still understand on some deep level that their culture must be put out of it's misery.

Misery that the boomer put it in. For all its ills the fact remains that the society the boomers inherited was the most intelligent, productive, prosperous and harmonious that has ever existed. All they had to do was not fuck up and generations would have been able to enjoy its fruits but they couldn’t even manage that.

Blogger sammibandit July 17, 2021 5:01 PM  

Vox excoriates the 'rich kids' who already have their debts paid off...

Cry more.

... but those of us with enough wisdom to choose a field worth a damn, who chose to live in low cost-of-living parts of the country, and who were fiscally prudent shouldn't have to pay them on principle.

You would lose nothing for Milennials and Zoomers and probably some younger Gen X to have their debts discharged. You can't lose something that wasn't yours. Your assumed position of moral authority is built on sand because your skin isn't in this game and you clearly think poorly of young people whether they're your peers or not.

And your idea to move is just neoliberal BS designed to break the multi-generational household apart, alienating young fledglings when they need the help most apart from infancy. I didn't move out till I was engaged to be married. The only other people who do that are Italians and East Asians. We should learn from them this practice.

In fact, I contend that it's *good*, in the long run, if we don't spare people from the consequences of their decisions. Blah, blah, blah bootstraps, muh banks aren't your friend and muh institutional education mission creep.

Statist.

You're twisted and retarded. You must be a Boomer or a 30 year old Boomer. Muh lessons and muh principle. Do we really need to explain it to you like you're 5? Fraud bad. Young people in 6 figure debt that can't be discharged bad. People who have nothing to do with the largest en masse fraud that barge in acting like they have the backs of the defrauded while kicking them while they're down bad.

You prefer muh lessons and muh principle and are so far off track I'll let someone smarter end it for me:

In the Old Testament the Lord laid out HIS economic system. We are commanded to unshackle debtors from their debts every 7 years. We can't be righteous followers of Jesus Christ if we refuse to obey his commandments and one of the big ones is we DON'T shackle people down with debt that can't be repaid.

Blogger map July 17, 2021 5:11 PM  

Look, you people writing things like "debt should e cancelled only after education reform" or "debt should be cancelled for profitable degrees" or "only SJW's are in debt" need to stop pulling this "Ben Shapiro" act.

Shapiro says that you should not complain about Blackrock buying homes. You should complain about the Fed policies that enable Blackrock. Right. The solution is to shake your fist at a more unaccountable bureaucracy.

And, no, the solution is not "get a profitable degree." If everyone had an engineering or a medical degree, then such degrees would be worthless.

And a lot of young people are SJW's because they are drowning in debt and can't do anything about it.

Blogger Balam July 17, 2021 5:12 PM  

''What political/war strategy hinges on giving your enemies resources?

9/10 people who are in student loan debt are radical SJWs and cosmopolitans. They have seized all control of every institution of power in society and we should pay for their loan debt?''

Because the globalists require a slave class. Nowadays that slave class is bound using debt and welfare. You also don't realize that hurting the universities and their backers is far more valuable than leaving foot soldiers to suffer. Imagine being so short sighed as to utter, ''Woah woah, why would we help out Russia by killing Stalin? They're our enemies.'' and I assure you the links between globalists and universities are strong.

''In fact, I contend that it's *good*, in the long run, if we don't spare people from the consequences of their decisions
(...)
Young adults will learn that if shit gets really bad, the government will just wipe away their debt. Universities will learn that they can continue to essentially defraud their customers because they'll get their money no matter what. ''

Young people are already facing consequences and you're being too emotional if you don't see it. Late family creation, less banks willing to give any sort of loan because of student debt on the book, garnished wages, inflexibility in life choices because the debt hurts so much, etc. A debt jubilee would be wiping out the debt. You are thinking of a debt bailout. In addition it would be a good lesson for young people that if banks screw you over enough you can flip the table and hang them, it makes for a more polite society.

Your '''philosophy''' on life is sheer predation and abandonment of the young. Especially because the youngest members of society tend to be the most foolish (boomers excepted) so you are simply giving free license to abuse them. Are you a libertarian by any chance?

Blogger weka July 17, 2021 5:20 PM  

Well, I went through University when there was a student allowance and only 12% of kids went there. Most did apprenticeshipa. We need to get back there.

1. Cut out all service fees.
2. The Federal uSA government is bankrupt. They will default. At that print, all such loans are not.
3. Law schools and med schools should be subsidized by the state in return for you doing your residency where they send you
4. Nurses should be trained in hospital.

Above all if you go bankrupt the loans should be discharged..

Blogger brbrophy July 17, 2021 5:21 PM  

I would be perfectly happy if everyone on earth experienced absolute debt-forgiveness but me.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 17, 2021 5:21 PM  

@93. Chill Penguin

Cannot be done with all colleges but many, for sure.

Blogger Mark July 17, 2021 5:22 PM  

University should be free and admission should be based on competency… same as Poland. I want doctors to be doctors because they are smart, not because they have high financial risk tolerance.

Blogger bw July 17, 2021 5:29 PM  

Or are eliminated by a new government, possibly one put in by force.

You missed your train stop - and the movie.

This particular POTUS NY RE bailed out actor and politician office holder was either an ignorant puss victim loser, or he was and is the conquering genius GE...or playing his scripted role...

Look and Think around you

Pick One hint: it's not ATA (heh)

Blogger wahr01 July 17, 2021 5:35 PM  

"The conservative case for giving 6 figure payouts to the rioter generation"

The rioters don't deserve one red cent of forgiveness and need to be made more financially miserable by whatever levers of power we can wrest from them. I recommend massive corporate liability for wrongful terminations involving HR personnel with "social justice" degrees.

Blogger Storm Rhode July 17, 2021 5:35 PM  

I'm okay with interest bearing debt forgiveness but let's not pretend people didn't willingly sign on to these loans.

Blogger Storm Rhode July 17, 2021 5:44 PM  

Once people, boomers, take checks from the government they tend to believe everything the government says. Free Covid vaccine? You bet! Trump's people stormed the capital? Crucify them! Keep those checks coming.

Blogger cyrus83 July 17, 2021 5:52 PM  

I took out student loans and also repaid them. That was many years ago and the situation then is not what it is now. When I began college 20 years ago, the full cost of 4 years at the school I chose was about $50,000 - not just tuition, but housing, food, fees, textbooks, everything.

Back then, the return on investment was better, although still from a practical point of view the counselors in high school and the advisors at college were bald-faced liars concerning what a degree could do. I have a STEM degree from a well-regarded school but it turned out to be useless in practice. My first job was via a family connection for under $15/hour, no other job since has cared 2 cents about the sheepskin, it has all come down to skill and experience.

There should be a general amnesty of college debt because students have been lied to by their teachers, their parents, and the culture into thinking college is some kind of necessary golden ticket when it's really been a way to suck wealth out of the middle class and impoverish students. Unless planing on a career in a field that requires college - doctor, lawyer, or some other type of professional - it's a much better bet to get some technical/vocational skills and get work experience since there isn't enough of a demand in the job market for everyone to get a college degree.

Waive the debt, end the loan programs, and stop wasting 4 years or more of young people's prime based on views of college still rooted in the 1960s. Bonus effect it will cut off funding to one of the enemies of western civilization.

Blogger IreneAthena July 17, 2021 5:57 PM  

I had to pay off my own college debt, unlike those who will benefit from the proposed debt jubilee. What I didn't have to do is: fret half a world away while my husband's ship floated as a target for kamikaze pilots, as my mother-in-law did; put paper over the windows at night to avoid being a target of the German aerial attacks, as my mother did; wait to see if my loved one's number was going to come up in the Vietnam War draft lottery, as many of my older Boomer cousins did. In this game called life that is "unfair" in so many ways, I've had a relatively easy time of it. So, Bring on the Debt Jubilee, but do (as many above have suggested) make it so that those bearing the financial burden will be predatory bankers and the "Grievance Studies" tyrants who turned many a venerable educational institution and the degrees associated with them into a joke.

Blogger bw July 17, 2021 6:04 PM  

Politics is downstream from culture

have always understood the concept, yet govt has long been owned by the Corps that literally created the culture

Blogger rumpole5 July 17, 2021 6:11 PM  

Envy that somewhere, someone might be getting a break that I didn't get. Envy dressed up as "fairness" -- Lipstick on a pig --. A debt Jubalee is a great idea, just ask God. Figure out a way and just do it! By the way, I have no debt myself.

Blogger DFCtomm July 17, 2021 6:14 PM  

That barista with 200k in student loan debt isn't ever going to pay it back, and the federal government is still on the hook for it. It will be forgiven, one way or the other. The only question is whether you want to ruin the life of a young person because they did what you told them to do.

Blogger markregan July 17, 2021 6:14 PM  

A third point that needs to be made is how far the evil spreads with lending and usury, or interest, let alone GOVERNMENT GUARANTEED lending, usury, and/or interest!! "Higher education" has become a cesspool of globalist elitism, living off of government largesse, then smugly and self-righteously providing us the so-called "experts" who almost uniformly advocate the destruction of nations in favor of global government and global tyranny; preposterous theories like man-made (they use the term, "anthropogenic" to sound sophisticated and learned!) "climate change" are promulgated to further those ends; men are rewarded - financially and otherwise - for cowardice, conformity, and compliance with elitist fads rather than courage, independence, and free and rational thought... in fact, the latter are scorned, and viewed with contempt for their failure to conform, as the sycophantic bureaucrats and parasitic academics do.

Is this not exactly what we see today? How does the establishment - government, news and entertainment media, and academia - view those who question the PLANdemic? Those who question "vaccines?" Those who question "climate change?" Or worse yet - those who voted for Trump and believe the election was stolen through massive and systematic voter fraud?

The list of false dogmas we are pressured to believe proliferates... diversity... open borders... transgenderism and "feminism..."

Do all of these falsehoods stem from a culture of lending and usury? Perhaps not directly, but a debt-based, fiat currency system where "money" is "created" out of debt certainly favors blind sycophancy over energy, creativity, and labor.

A last observation about student loan debt in particular - I am convinced a hidden motive behind the situation is population control. I believe the average annual cost for tuition alone at a private institution is well over $50,000. In current dollars, this is madness - almost everyone needs to borrow to attend. So in the prime years of family formation, millions are delaying that formation because they are saddled with debt. Then - on top of that - the vast majority of middle class married couples are limiting their own family size due to the "high cost of college," which has never cost more and been worth less.

Blogger Mike Wallens July 17, 2021 6:44 PM  

I work with welders, pipefitters and general overall laborers on pipelines and plants and refineries. These guys work long hours, at the job at 0600 am and in bad weather. And then you have the illegal alien factor driving down wages. I'll be epphd if I am going to recommend that their tax dollars pay for someone's degree who chose an English lit major and who is probably now an SJW. BS to that. Nothing to do with boomerism.

Blogger Geir Balderson July 17, 2021 6:50 PM  

I have chatted with many liberals who have bemoaned the size of their student debt. I did try to impress upon them that the 'education' they did receive would not pay them back sufficiently to invest or purchase a house. In addition, professors, such as Elizabeth Warren, were given huge salaries for dubious work. Lizzie made over $400K a year working at Harvard. Did she feel remorse for being part of the student loan debacle? Nahhh. But, lefty kids thinks she is wonderful. My friend, the auto mechanic, makes six figures without a wasted college sheepskin. Sure, he has to get his hands dirty but, he isn't a barista making minimum wage with a Women's Studies degree.

Blogger GAHCindy July 17, 2021 6:50 PM  

It's like Jesus's parable about the early and late workers. What business is it of yours what someone else gets? Didn't you get what you contracted for?

Blogger LibertyPortraits July 17, 2021 6:51 PM  

What's sad, and hopeless, to me is that people with enough intelligence to read Vox still complain about debt jubilee even though there is only a tiny chance of it ever happening anyway. Biden, who like all politicians, promised some degrees of debt forgiveness walked back on it and is stalling. I can't see the forgiveness happening, people would rather their society be destroyed than entertain the idea of forgiveness. Just import people with nonexistent credit to take mortgages for homes I guess. I think I am more likely to see the total destruction of the federal government before I see anyone favor the debtor class over the lender. Michael Hudson's book on debt forgiveness was very good, and is free on Kindle Unlimited I might add. I would hope Vox's readers would at least be smart enough to read and do their research before coming to any conclusions.

Blogger Brian D. July 17, 2021 6:54 PM  

As someone who paid off ten's of thousands of student debt in the last 5 years, I really hope my children generation won't have to be chained to that level of debt. Right the wrong, change the system, and build for our children's future, because another 20 years like the last 20 won't bode well for them. I'd rather see the rest of my generation freed than my self reconciled.

Blogger Some Guy July 17, 2021 7:05 PM  

This is literally the most basic thing in the world. Deuteronomy 15. Every seven years, the debt gets cancelled. Not paid by the government. Just ... gone. Don't make bad investments. By legislation, make the banks cancel all of the student loan debt that has lasted more than 7 years after they finished school and be done.

Blogger momnotmom42 July 17, 2021 7:09 PM  

Boomer parent here. I got scholarships for college including a grant from the state (California, believe it or not), worked during the school year and all summer, to go to a private college for a STEM degree. I graduated with about $6K in loan debt, got a Master's then a job, and the debt was paid off. After marriage, we started 529 plans for our 2 kids, and poured money into them, with maybe less regard for our retirement than we should have.
Older kid took a gap year, worked full time at Walmart, went to community college for 2 years, and graduated summa cum laude from Kutztown here in PA for his Bachelor's. We told both kids that once the 529's were empty they were on their own. Older kid has enough left in his 529 for tuition for the Master's he is seeking- it's up to him to figure out the rest.
Younger kid starts at Penn State in the fall; he currently has enough between his 529, non-loan financial aid, and his own money from working that he can probably make it through if he does it in four years.
So my first impulse when hearing about debt forgiveness is that "you made your bed, now you have to lie in it."
After all, we've made financial choices and particularly my older kid, have made financial choices involving sacrifice (cue violins), and deliberately tried to stay away from education loans. The constant barrage from the college financial aid offices about education loans just stiffens my conviction that they are to be avoided in most cases.
But on the other hand, how many of us have made mistakes when we were young, stupid, inexperienced, and not getting the best advice? How long should such mistakes follow you around? 10 years? 20? The rest of your life?
I've reluctantly come around to the idea that there needs to be some debt forgiveness- (amounts negotiable), as long as it is paired with:
a strike in your financial record similar to a bankruptcy (expires after several years, etc) if part of your debt is forgiven, and
rework of the student loan system to allow bankruptcy discharge for loans going forward.
This is all or nothing; there has to be some price to pay to stop true freeloaders, and we need to a restore a more sane system where the risk is held by those lending and benefiting from the money.
Ideally, some of the burden of debt forgiveness would be shouldered by the banks and colleges involved, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
Also more attention should be paid to the trades and supporting those who choose that career path; I wish I had insisted on both of my kids learning at least the rudiments of a trade even if they were still going to go to college.
If banks and colleges want to parade around touting their support for educating the diverse poor, they can do it with their own money, because the current system allows them to pound their chests without taking on a scintilla of actual risk.

Blogger 1683Bear July 17, 2021 7:15 PM  

My problem is not with forgiving loans, it is with continuing to give the loans. It is with subsidizing the Marxist indoctrination of college students which trickles down through teacher education programs to our primary schools. It is with feeding the superinflation of post secondary education. The per hour cost of tuition at my local state University is the same as the semester cost in 1977 - roughly the same year that Jimmy Carter started the Department of Education and the student loan program.

Blogger Doktor Jeep July 17, 2021 7:21 PM  

I just realized something.
A push to defer student loan debt would be one thing the boomer generation could do to repent.
GenX is not so apt to stand in the way of that, given they could not prevent, due to lack of numbers, every last dumb thing boomers voted for.
So currently only boomers have the numbers to pull it off.


Maybe it can be called "The Bootstrap Act".

I won't hold my breath.

Blogger Storm Rhode July 17, 2021 7:28 PM  

You are onto the solution. The system has to fail. Table scraps for special interests to buy their complacency is part of the problem.

Blogger 1683Bear July 17, 2021 7:36 PM  

I do think people should be able to go bankrupt after seven years. I would bet that the Senator from Delaware had a lot to do with that legislation. Any future loan program should be tied to financial institutions, actuarial tables and the colleges. It can't just be free loans. Banks should have information about schools and majors that indicate which combination will be a good bet to give a student loan to. Schools should loan money from their endowments to make sure courses are available and that there is freedom of speech. There should not just be free government loans. The student loan program should be ended. The Department of Education is a failure and should be ended. We had better education before it was created and can save 100 billion dollars a year by ending it and it's programs. The States can do it better anyways.

Blogger Trey July 17, 2021 7:47 PM  

Of course, someone will have to pay. Maybe better phrased as "the right (responsible) party should be the one to pay." Bankruptcy happens all the time without the state bailing out the lender, unless it's a bank that's too well connected to fail. In that case, never mind, it's only money (and not even that really).
No consequences means no changed behavior, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Blogger Feather Blade July 17, 2021 8:14 PM  

LibertyPortraits wrote:... even though there is only a tiny chance of it ever happening anyway. Biden, who like all politicians, promised some degrees of debt forgiveness walked back on it and is stalling.

It's a useful wedge issue. "Student loan forgiveness" is to the Left as "abortion" is to the Right; the kind of thing that the politicians can use to spin up their base and do fundraising.

If they actually follow through, there goes their best fundraiser. They have no incentive whatsoever to do anything about the issue, including following through on their campaign promises.

Blogger "William Berke" July 17, 2021 8:17 PM  

Joseph's Stalin in austerity..

Blogger papabear July 17, 2021 8:21 PM  

@131 " I would bet that the Senator from Delaware had a lot to do with that legislation. Any future loan program should be tied to financial institutions, actuarial tables and the colleges."

Only oligarchs look at preparation to become a wage slave as an investment with a return. Being able to make a decent living is a "human right" if there is any such thing, and that's one reason why educational loans are a form of usury. (And don't respond with they could just get a job at McD's or Walmart.)

Blogger Colonel Blimp July 17, 2021 8:43 PM  

This is American women and men in a nutshell.

Blogger Kevin Smith July 17, 2021 9:07 PM  

@Skarp Hedin -- and how many employees of this vestigial apparatus are considered the all powerful The Science?

Blogger Andrew July 17, 2021 9:09 PM  

@104 "You would lose nothing for Milennials and Zoomers and probably some younger Gen X to have their debts discharged."

That is complete and utter nonsense. It's like saying you lose nothing from inflation because after all, the state isn't taking money from you, it's just giving extra to the other guy.

Blogger Dewave July 17, 2021 9:19 PM  

I think all student loans should be illegal. The idea that we are going to saddle a young person starting out in life with crippling debt just because they received the education we told them too is pretty morally repugnant and socially suicidal.

Do you have any idea how many young people are not getting married, not buying a house, and not having kids (all significant life events that tend to make you more conservative) because they can't afford to, due in large part to heavy student loans?

Blogger map July 17, 2021 9:22 PM  

Who cares if the loans are free? Did we establish at this blog that banks create money out of thin air? That loans, be they credit card, mortgage or student, are simply conjured by banks as part of their liquidity project as part of a central banking system?

Banks do not take people's deposits and then judiciously lend them out in order to protect the bank's assets. Deposits are just a utility function of banks. The loans are simply a system of social control, with banks being controlled by the demand for actual currency when people close out their accounts.

Blogger IreneAthena July 17, 2021 9:27 PM  

@129 Doktor Jeep wrote:I just realized something.

A push to defer student loan debt would be one thing the boomer generation could do to repent.

GenX is not so apt to stand in the way of that, given they could not prevent, due to lack of numbers, every last dumb thing boomers voted for.

So currently only boomers have the numbers to pull it off.

Maybe it can be called "The Bootstrap Act".

I won't hold my breath.


You're quite right, Doktor Jeep. Don't hold your breath. Rather, use it to breathe encouraging resurrection words over the potential army of dried-up Boomer bones you see lying around you. Even if an energetic group of youthful visionaries got only one Boomer to follow their lead for every 100 Boomers who brushed them off with, "Go away, I got mine," you'd still easily meet the requisite minimum of "twelve." A multi-generational movement of people encouraging one another to live lives of service to God and the community is very attractive and might just catch on.... "and numbers were added to this Way daily."

Blogger Kevin Smith July 17, 2021 9:45 PM  

@Akulkis Standing ovation for that rant bro. Why do people not understand the connection between productivity and money? If people are so concerned about money then they are, by default, concerned about the humans upon which the value of that money depends. Stop making them jump through hoops before they go out and create that value.

Blogger wahr01 July 17, 2021 10:11 PM  

I'm with the others calling to allow bankruptcy.

Bankrupt SJW's sounds like a good "compromise" that doesn't pay them for ripping at the foundations of our society.

Blogger Unknown July 17, 2021 10:38 PM  

paying into a ponzi doesn't make it a legitimate business @6 that's what I tell them - either way, the money still isn't there, it's a case of do they steal from you?

Blogger wreckage July 17, 2021 10:52 PM  

I do weep, Vox. Deep, uncontrollable sobbing for all the benefits you won't get if someone else's life suddenly gets easier and more hopeful. You and the Boomers are the REAL victims here! So brave. Thankyou for this.

Blogger Anónimo July 17, 2021 10:52 PM  

Around 60%-70% of those student debt loans are in the hands of women.
Most of these student debt loans were taken so that some idiot could attend a stupid degree with no real world value. It's not my fault that other people make stupid decisions and it sure isn't my responsibility to pay for their mistakes.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 17, 2021 10:57 PM  

Remove the federal guarantees, allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, require the universities to make the lenders whole ... That doesn't sound like a jubilee, so it will be palatable to the selfish, but it accomplishes most of what is necessary. The only downside is that it doesn't destroy the lenders along with the universities.

Blogger kurt9 July 17, 2021 11:02 PM  

One reason why the student debt should be written off is because all of these kids went to college on the recommendation of the "grown-ups" in their lives pushing them to do so (I use the term "grown-up" in quotes here because many of them are anything but). This same "grown-ups" also told them stupid shit like "follow your heart and the money will come". That, and how the universities ass raped the kids by jacking up tuition and fees to the Moon, are why I feel the "grown-ups" owe some accountability here.

I also think making an exception to student loan debt in terms of bankruptcy (something that was passed during George W Bush's time in office) was criminal exploitation as well.

Blogger Avalanche July 17, 2021 11:04 PM  

@94 "Why would anyone care if someone else's debt is forgiven?"

Because the concept of "forgiven" is not clear!

If by forgiven you mean the balance vanishes into the ether and is never heard of again.... that's one version. If it vanishes into the ether, why would (((they))) not just start it over the very next day? Where would by the 'stop' on the continued criminality that set up and expands this grift? I like Vox's idea of cutting the owed loans down to 30-year ago rates, or perhaps the discussed option here of wiping out all interest -- even retroactively. If the uni's fail -- double win!

So long as it doesn't START with the govt paying the loans off! I'm struggling already paying for medical care and housing for illegals and shiftless useless immigrants and negros, and set asides and affirmative actions and obammy-phones, and... and holy CRAP so much money in taxes from me for GIFTS to the 'undeserving poor' and to the active enemies of my own people -- I don't CARE what happens to them.

If the college endowments could only pay 1/5th of the outstanding loans -- then let that money be paid out proportionally, to the folks who have paid off their college debt? Wipe clean the current debtors, and then rebate a bit to those who DID uphold their agreements? And NEVER allow it to start up again?

Blogger kurt9 July 17, 2021 11:05 PM  

The democrats just passed their 3 trillion dollar bullshit non-infrastructure bill by using reconciliation. I say take this money and write off everyone's student debt. This is more than enough money to do so.

Blogger Bezzle July 17, 2021 11:08 PM  

@131. 1683Bear July 17, 2021 7:36 PM
....The Department of Education is a failure and....

--Hanlon's Razor is a poisonous, insidious rot upon human comprehension. Always reject it as your first impulse to stoke your ego by imagining that the Cabal is stupid.

The Department of Education wasn't a "failure", it was a communist program which achieved its ulterior objection -- the demolition of the America -- spectacularly.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 11:19 PM  

>> Loan forgiveness for STEM graduates.

I'll settle for throwing everyone who submitted a fraudulent claim of NEED for an H-1B visa instead of training up an American within the field (mechanical, computer, electrical, medicine, whatever).

Or gallows if the prisons get too full. Treason does not deserve an early release ALIVE just because the damned prison is full.

Blogger Ryan G July 17, 2021 11:21 PM  

@103 - Again, a 'debt jubilee' is not going to happen. You don't think principles matter? Fine. Let's stay within the realm of pragmatism. Congress would never create such a law, POTUS would never enforce such a law, the Supreme Court would strike it down. That's all there is to it and I'll bet my life on it. The closest we could possibly get is for the federal government to take on another 1.7 trillion in debt, further accelerating inflation, and not doing a thing to actually solve the problem. If you view debts as immoral, then what right do we have to impose debts on those not even born yet in the form of public debt and inflation? Unlike those smart boy college students, they never volunteered for that. Explain how that's moral.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 11:33 PM  

@crash

>> It won't be forgiven, it will be paid off. The people who are owed it will still get paid.


You really think that the private lenders (because even the government guaranteed loans are sourced from private lenders) had no clue that a person getting a degree in Feminist Studies is actually going to earn LESS money than had she never gone to college at all?

NO .. THESE BANKS *KNEW* that most of these non-rigorous degrees (anything outside of STEM, Accounting, Business, and Management) are not only not going to allow the student to pay off the loan, but, that THE LIFELING, PERPETUAL INDEBTEDNESS IS PART OF THEIR PLAN of economic warfare against the rest of the (i.e. non-banker, non-academics) families in this country.


Compensate those bloodsuckers, my ass, YOU GODDAMNED STUPID FUCKING BOOMER

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 11:41 PM  

>> Expecting the loan companies to just take it in the shorts isn't going to happen, so that just leaves taxpayer/debt-supported payoffs

The general public is not going to tolerate another round of "private profits, socialized losses" bullshit like was pulled in 2008.

The same amount of money could have been used to clear all of the underwater mortgages and just give these people their houses. It literally wouldn't have cost one dime more.

But that wouldn't have served the ultimate bankster goal of asset stripping the entire nation for the bankster's benefit and the bankster's benefit alone.

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 11:51 PM  

>>
In fact, I contend that it's *good*, in the long run, if we don't spare people from the consequences of their decisions. You can pontificate until you are blue in the face about how you can make it on your own without a degree, how the whole system is rigged, etc.


In a student loan situation, who is are the most culpable

1) the college and university administration types who jacked up the price of college to over 40x what it used to be (while cutting back on the number of full time professors, and seeing data and information processing costs fall through the floor)

2) the lenders who know that even STEM graduates aren't going to have the salaries required to pay off these loans

3) the 18 year old kid, even the STEM students, who haven't been properly educated by anyone, especially the K-12 school systems (both public and private) about finances, compound interest, opportunity costs, or other fundamentals of economics, and who, even if he were, doesn't have access to enough facts to properly evaluate the situation:

Government: STEM WORKERS ARE IN HIGH DEMAND.

Reality: Only foreigners need apply for these jobs [which, by the way, aren't being compensated at the rates appropriate for such supposed talent shortages], you bigot!

Blogger Akulkis July 17, 2021 11:54 PM  

>> Expecting the loan companies to just take it in the shorts isn't going to happen, so that just leaves taxpayer/debt-supported payoffs.


There's a reason why, without even trying to be, the bank robbers of the 1930s quickly became folk heroes in rural America. Everyone loved seeing the banks taking a punch in the face.

Blogger markregan July 17, 2021 11:56 PM  

I love the comments here, as most - not all - seem to recognize there is something fundamentally broken in the system itself. Indirectly, some of you are recognizing one basic point, but let me say it again: A RISK-FREE loan - one where the lender bears no risk of loss - is FUNDAMENTALLY immoral! There MUST be risk for the lender - otherwise the transaction is a SHAM! Let me ask the question - what is the collateral in the student loan? What is the security for the lender?

Blogger Joe Smith July 17, 2021 11:58 PM  

You are still going to feed your kid into the beast, even now after knowing what these indoctrination stations are? Ten to one you're posting online somewhere in 5 years about your erstwhile normal kid that became a retard after you 529'd him through a 4 year degree. No doubt you're sitting there thinking, "no! He's going for a STEM degree!" as if that matters. Boomers are seemingly incapable of learning.

Blogger Akulkis July 18, 2021 12:04 AM  

>> The USD is essentially worthless at this point.

All of the others are even worse, except for the British Pound. Even the Chinese Yuan and Russian Ruble are worse. And they both have functioning economies.

Blogger markregan July 18, 2021 12:13 AM  

And what of the Constitution? Bankruptcy is expressly mentioned for a reason, as is "gold and silver coin." What do you think they had in mind? https://www.forbes.com/sites/briandomitrovic/2018/09/07/the-few-words-on-money-in-the-constitution-say-more-than-we-know/?sh=122741045cd2

Blogger Akulkis July 18, 2021 12:16 AM  

>> I'm okay with interest bearing debt forgiveness but let's not pretend people didn't willingly sign on to these loans.

Most enrolled in college under duress.

Have you ever seen how many job listings state that a REQUIREMENT for the job is having a bachelor's degree. I'm talking about large numbers of entry level jobs that can be performed by anyone who can read and write at the 6th grade level.

Blogger markregan July 18, 2021 12:19 AM  

For those of you insisting on the payment of the "debt," I refer you to Shylock in "The Merchant of Venice." You are siding with him - congratulations! I might agree with you if you agreed with 1) no interest - NONE - and 2) a seven-year limit on indebtedness before jubilee. Is seven years enough, or do you want MORE than a pound of flesh? Be careful what you answer...

Blogger Akulkis July 18, 2021 12:22 AM  

>> I'll be epphd if I am going to recommend that their tax dollars pay for someone's degree who chose an English lit major and who is probably now an SJW.

Who is calling for tax dollars to be used for any such thing?

Jubilee means that the loan no longer exists, not that it gets paid off by a third party.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 18, 2021 1:29 AM  

@123. GAHCindy

Freedom to contract one's labor is not the same as borrowing.

Blogger Vulgar_Display July 18, 2021 1:39 AM  

So many of my conservative friends talk exactly like that. I ask them what's more important? The best and brightest American's being out of slavery so they can start having American children that perpetuate our culture? Or corporations bringing in waves of economic migrants because 35 year old's who still can't afford a house aren't able to have more than 1-2 kids.

Blogger Unknown July 18, 2021 3:43 AM  

usury is just very slow war BUYING a country, see China using Marxist money printer all over the world - don't allow foreign buyouts too
@31 banks are families, few know this or their treason - trial?
@41 credit card companies giving out incentives is discrimination - print it, get people off the spigot
@42 some stocks have student loans as assets, like banks

Blogger wahr01 July 18, 2021 3:45 AM  

papabear wrote:Being able to make a decent living is a "human right" if there is any such thing

If that's the case the concept of business licensing needs to be destroyed by lawfare and a judiciary program that's literally the opposite of the corporate puppet fedsocs

Blogger Unknown July 18, 2021 4:24 AM  

@49 shylock's retort
@52 nationalise and ban foreign students, or at least charge them x10 @59 preventing reproduction cannot be undone, it is death
@66 deflation is good for People
@70 h1b is a slavery programme, they make them work illegal hours and pay pittance
@78 that's silly, college educated women get divorced at a lower rate - you wanna eat the high IQ seed crop? that's how high IQ meet each other!
@89 swap tax rates of income v capital gains tax, reward the worker not the banker
@96 there is opportunity cost, like I know people who didn't become engineers or doctors due to fees, a sweetener for real subjects would go over well for those who dodged the debt bullet like scholarships with a high IQ test
@99 uk has graduate tax, literal debt slavery
@101 also get the schools, who told kids they HAD to get degrees to avoid the jobs they already have now anyway
@107 fire the admins that make like 85% of the price, it isn't hard
@110 same, has put the smartest whites off STEM and doctoring to favour inbred Asians who are funded by family so it isn't fair - due to white individualism (bootstraps!)
@112 think bigger, why are judges exempt from prosecution based on their decisions?
@120 read thought prison the middle class parasitism on the working poor relies on pretending they're too smart to dirty their dainty hands
@128 free college with an IQ (native to the country) of over 130
@135 usury is slavery, and serfdom

Blogger SciVo July 18, 2021 5:38 AM  

@Storm Rhode:
I'm okay with interest bearing debt forgiveness but let's not pretend people didn't willingly sign on to these loans.

Teenagers are like puppies: basically retarded. We only grant them as much rights as we do so that we can draft them for wars and pretend to ourselves that we're being fair.

Blogger shadohand (akuma sock account# 7373636 ...crazy only responds to crazy) July 18, 2021 5:58 AM  

Cancel it for everyone except Boomers. And then Garnish social security. Let the bastards suffer the consequences of their lies.

Oh and anyone living who has sworn an Oath to Support and Defend The Constitution against all Enemies Foreign and DOMESTIC, should be taxed as well. For allowing untold Wanton Destruction to take place under their Watch.

Blogger SciVo July 18, 2021 6:00 AM  

@Cass Milton:
The free college and loan forgiveness is disincentivsing unsustainable and patronage at the most obvious. This is an example of bread and circuses. That is the core of the complaint.

You are conflating two very different things. Just because some people want both doesn't mean they have to go together.

Indeed, loan forgiveness can (and should) be paired with passing on the pain to the responsible institutions, banks and colleges both.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2021 6:14 AM  

"This is subsidizing parasitism and stupidity to no end."

Allowing usurers to collect is subsidizing parasitism with intelligence, you shitbird.

"In fact, I contend that it's *good*, in the long run, if we don't spare people from the consequences of their decisions."

I assure you that no matter how much time you give five year old children to learn from the error of their abduction-easing behaviors, the next set of them will do exactly the same things. Meanwhile the immensely damaged adults who survived anyway will have learned that it is their supposedly friendly permitting/enabling elders --YOU-- who need killing first.

You've failed to comprehend how usury works. You're going to pay for the usury either way so long as it continues, unless you're in bed with the usurers, which will become the sole logical interpretation of your actions as you continue to resist.

"First, a "risk free loan," where the government guarantees the lender, is completely immoral and completely perverts the entire system."

Allowing any interest to be collected, whatsoever, invariably leads to all the rest. Lenders at interest are predatory long-term thinkers, period. If you permit them to prey on the naïve and foolish, he who dares wins, and you will end up as prey too.

"My problem is not with forgiving loans, it is with continuing to give the loans."

It's a non-issue. Either the banks/colleges lose big, and stop lending like that, or the common people lose big, and stop sending their children to worthless schools. Where it is now, it's preying on kids who completely lack the experience to know better as far as either loans or education, so either above option would be better.

Blogger SciVo July 18, 2021 6:53 AM  

@Ryan G:
If you view debts as immoral, then what right do we have to impose debts on those not even born yet in the form of public debt and inflation? Unlike those smart boy college students, they never volunteered for that. Explain how that's moral.

Oh, that's easy. As soon as the last boomer is dead, we default on our public debt, since none of us agreed to it. And they can't make binding promises in our name, without our consent.

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 18, 2021 7:18 AM  

Well said. Usury is entropic to the system. It's not an integral part of some Darwinian eugenics program. Even though some revel in that idea. All Usury does is extract energy until things go inert. People mistake localized increases in energy due to Usury as an increase in the energy of the whole. The sum total of energy is decreasing while what remains is directed to various localities.

Blogger Across the World July 18, 2021 7:37 AM  

Imagine a slave who earned his freedom begrudging the freeing of other slaves because it’s not fair to him.

I was such a slave myself. At first I had some smug sense of superiority that I got out but then I realized that once a slave escapes usually security gets tighter and it’s that much harder for the other slaves.

I was able to use the threat of bankruptcy to cancel most of my accrued interest payments. I told those bloodsuckers they could take what I would pay them or they could get nothing. I had that option. After me and others got out through that weak link in the fence, they closed it up, got some guard dogs and doubled the security. The slaves that couldn’t get out by virtue of being newly captured are bearing the misfortune of our successful escape. It’s incumbent on us to help them in some way.

I’d prefer storming the compound freeing them and imprisoning the jailers. If that is beyond our ability I’d at least like to contribute time and money to get the slaves out however we can.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella July 18, 2021 8:38 AM  

As it is, the schools are going to collapse, anyway. Right now, the top schools are captured by studious Asian females and other not-from-core-American families. It really does not matter that they have good grades and spend all their time studying. The core American boys are not going to these schools.

Where boys do not go, normal women who want children, do not go.

I am watching this happen at the local school. One is becoming "world-class"- full of world students- and one is hyper-local, and, well, that's where the boys are. The Christian families and church planters start there.

One has much higher tuition rates and relies on more student loans and grants. Guess which one it is?

Blogger liberty July 18, 2021 8:57 AM  

"Teenagers are like puppies: basically retarded."

Then they're probably not ready or cutout for college.

Blogger Phillip McOntoll July 18, 2021 9:45 AM  

As someone who's rich father paid for my school and who's father's schooling was paid for by his rich father, my father (Gen X by dates, boomer by mindset) is the hardest person to convince of the sheer immorality of non dischargable student loan debt. Unlike my sisters who went to expensive private universities for worthless degrees in humanities, I spent 2 years at community college and 2 years at a state university for a degree in Comp Sci. Despite all the benefits afforded to me, I still fundamentally believe that from a Christian perspective it's obvious that A) usury is wrong, and B) a debt jubilee should be swiftly enacted.

I've tried explaining to him that he never had to pay for school, and even if he had he would have been able to declare bankruptcy on his debts if he was unable to repay them. He's stuck firmly in the boomer mindset that "I pay my credit card bill and mortgage every month, so people that don't pay their debts are irresponsible and bad."

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 10:21 AM  

markregan wrote:There MUST be risk for the lender - otherwise the transaction is a SHAM! Let me ask the question - what is the collateral in the student loan? What is the security for the lender?
Since the lender created the loan with a ledger entry, out of nothing, it costs the lender nothing to erase the ledger entry. He loses only a future stream of payments. He loses no savings, he loses no capital, he merely loses the ability to be a parasite.

The lender never has a risk.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 10:22 AM  

Akulkis wrote:All of the others are even worse, except for the British Pound.
???
What makes it different?

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 10:27 AM  

wahr01 wrote:If that's the case the concept of business licensing needs to be destroyed ...
It is indeed the case that earning a living isa basic human right, and a commandment from God.
wahr01 wrote:... needs to be destroyed by lawfare and a judiciary program ...
Give that a try, certainly. I think it'll take a whole lot of civil disobedience and some violence.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 10:37 AM  

Cass Milton wrote:The free college and loan forgiveness is disincentivsing unsustainable and patronage at the most obvious.
Student loan forgiveness is a necessary step to free our youth to have children. Without SL forgiveness, we damage entire generations, and our entire society. This step isn't sufficient by itself, but it is definitely necessary.

College for all is a foolish, counter-productive, anti-social idea. Free college really doesn't make it much better. College as it is done today is an indoctrination program that turns our youth into our enemies, bent on destroying our society.

College as it was done in past centuries is inappropriate for 90% or more of us. There are very few who won't be harmed irreparably by spending their first four adult years thinking instead of doing.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 11:14 AM  

liberty wrote:"Teenagers are like puppies: basically retarded."

Then they're probably not ready or cutout for college.

Most of us are not cut out for it, at any age. University is appropriate for the very few who are not suited to do anything but who excel at thinking. A polytechnic is appropriate for the few who can both do and think. Business colleges and normal schools are appropriate for the midwits who can handle a little education and a lot of training. All these add up to less than half our population.

The people who could do well at university could do well - perhaps better - without it. The people who struggle at college will struggle anywhere, though perhaps they will struggle less without the handicap of college.

College means spending four-plus years producing nothing, thinking - or just drinking - instead of doing. Those early years of adulthood should be spent working hard, learning a trade, starting a family. Instead they are spent at college, doing none of those things. College is four years on hold, four years wasted. That's the optimistic take: often it's four years of dissipation and indoctrination in evil.

When you add to that wasted time college debt the size of a mortgage on a small house, college becomes a millstone hung around the swimmer's neck. He will never overcome the disadvantage of those four wasted years, will never get back on the track he could have been on if he had been productive for those four years instead of enslaving himself to the lender.

Blogger "William Berke" July 18, 2021 12:45 PM  

Woe, woe, woe... Joseph's stallin....

Blogger "William Berke" July 18, 2021 1:08 PM  

LOL

Blogger markregan July 18, 2021 1:19 PM  

"He loses only a future stream of payments. He loses no savings, he loses no capital, he merely loses the ability to be a parasite.

The lender never has a risk."

Well, I believe you are talking about the immorality of "money creation" here, and I agree with you there. But in today's environment - where money, or more accurately CURRENCY - is created, the risk is the loss of income from interest. If the lender loses that - honest money or dishonest money - he goes under.

I brought up "collateral" because it was a fundamental concept when lending was more honest. Or less dishonest. What I was getting at is the "debt slave" is the collateral with student loans...

Blogger Axe July 18, 2021 2:08 PM  

Any debt jubilee today would be satanically based and would come with some form of selling your soul. It will be the same sort of offer that Satan always gives: "I will give you everything you see for free, all you have to do is worship me." Thats the pitch that I'm hearing and I won't support it.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2021 3:47 PM  

"NO .. THESE BANKS *KNEW* that most of these non-rigorous degrees (anything outside of STEM, Accounting, Business, and Management"

Even the vast majority of Business and Management degrees are wasteful, resulting in make-work bureaucratic jobs that shouldn't exist and are sucking the life out of the labor force. Most people shouldn't go to college, period.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2021 3:50 PM  

50,000 dollars in college debt, plus college duration, is probably over a decade worth of bite out of a person's life. If you're wondering why people aren't having children, that's a primary or near-primary cause.

Blogger Unknown July 18, 2021 5:28 PM  

I have often joked that I had to hurry up and pay back my student loans so everyone could get theirs forgiven. Last payment from Juneteenth 2020. Free at last! Free at last! Let the debt jubilee begin!

Blogger SirHamster July 18, 2021 8:39 PM  

markregan wrote:Well, I believe you are talking about the immorality of "money creation" here, and I agree with you there. But in today's environment - where money, or more accurately CURRENCY - is created, the risk is the loss of income from interest. If the lender loses that - honest money or dishonest money - he goes under.

Won't someone think of the poor bankers losing the dishonest money they used to enslave young people into debt? Think of their pain as they write off an imaginary number that would've otherwise been a lifetime of interest payments from a barista!

Rich slavers deserve your compassion!

Blogger liberty July 18, 2021 9:13 PM  

"They're old enough now that most of them would agree with you, that when they were 19 they were fools - but so were you."

I'm young enough to have been in the midst of the overpriced university scam. My choices were a regionally respected in-state university for ~$4,000 per year or a nationally respected out-of-state for ~$30,000 per year.
Even with my dad offering to do what he could because I'd been wanting to go to that school for most of my life, I couldn't do that to him, my mother, my sister, or myself.
Another $100,000 for the same degree didn't make sense, even if the numbers showed I'd earn an extra million in my life, I wouldn't care, the weight around my neck would break me down. And I graduated in 2009 so another reason to not rely only on past performance to make a decision.

If a 17 year old like me can see that, then what's the excuse for others? They shouldn't be in college. Forgiving the debt without doing anything else won't solve the problem.
The universities and banks still win and the students learn a bad lesson (I guess it's the capstone of their shitty degrees).

Blogger liberty July 18, 2021 9:17 PM  

I understand that you can't take the knowledge back like you can things bought off a card.
Maybe a ten year hold on being able to discharge it but also penalize universities who promote "99% job placement rate" and "average starting pay of $55,000 for graduates." Anyone who doesn't find a job or is under that average for their field gets part of their loan bill sent to the university.

Blogger liberty July 18, 2021 9:20 PM  

"And a lot of young people are SJW's because they are drowning in debt and can't do anything about it."

And they'll learn the folly of their ways by passing on their debt to tax payers?

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 18, 2021 9:23 PM  

Defending Usury is the real anti-Satanism!

Blogger liberty July 18, 2021 11:22 PM  

I agree with all you said here, 100%.
The system needs to be changed.

Blogger Jack Amok July 19, 2021 3:51 AM  


Sooooo much obstinate ignorance.

It won't be forgiven, it will be paid off. The people who are owed it will still get paid.

With what? Federal Funny Money? Those saying the taxpayers will have to pay for it are high, or else living in the past. In case you haven't noticed (kurt9 did) Congress is spewing out funny money by the bushell, and have been for over a decade. But they really cranked up the gobrrrr last year with Covid spending.

Nobody is "paying any of that back." That government borrowing is going to be defaulted in a glorious conflagration of either hyperinflation or serious deflation that weill leave most people scratching their heads.

We can cancel the student loans, tell the banksters to eat their losses, or we can have the federal government pay the loans off for the students, either way it doesn't matter. This corrupt establishment will pump funny fed money into their bankster's hands however they can. Student load forgiveness at least frees up some young people to go have a family. Of all the ways to give money to the banksters, it's the one with the most collateral benefits.


Let this observation sink in: When a system is so screwed up that serious discussion is taking place about something that previously was nearly unimaginable, you're not still living in the same world - something fundamental has changed and your old assumptions likely no longer apply.

A lot of things have fundamentally changed. This ain't 1987 any longer. If you're looking at student loan forgiveness as an issue of "fairness" or worrying about "who will pay for it" then your comprehension of the world is at least twenty years out of date, maybe more.

Blogger wahr01 July 19, 2021 3:59 AM  

@192

Won't someone please think of the poor millennial karen SJW? They spent 2 years rioting and shouting down actual Americans rather than working and are behind on their payments! We should just hand them a 6 figure credit at the expense of the tax-payers whose historic monuments they just spent tearing down.

Blogger RobertT July 19, 2021 12:41 PM  

Actually, I did pay for my own college education, with some tuition waivers from my college. I got only $500 from my parents. One of my roommates paid 100% of his own way with savings from working on a sheep ranch.

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