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Friday, July 16, 2021

The Vicar of Antichrist

 I'm not a Catholic, but I do believe in the importance of respecting tradition. Fake Pope Francis clearly does not:

Pope Francis has today issued a new Motu Proprio restricting the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass, and declaring that the liturgy of Paul VI, or the Novus Ordo, is the “unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite.”

The document, entitled “Traditiones Custodes,” issues several restrictions on the celebration of the Latin Mass, with the opening point containing a direct contradiction of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI’s 2007 document Summorum Pontificum. Francis now declares that while Benedict had described an “ordinary” and an “extraordinary” form of the Roman Rite, now there is only one - the Novus Ordo.

“The liturgical books promulgated by Saint Paul VI and Saint John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite.”

Amongst the new restrictions, the Pope affords new power to diocesan bishops, effectively giving them the ability to stamp out centers where the Traditional Mass is being offered. 

Describing Latin Mass attendees with the peculiar phrase, “these groups of the faithful,” Francis orders bishops to ensure that no further groups are allowed to grow dioceses. The local bishops are to additionally decide “whether or not to retain” the parishes which are currently offering the Traditional Mass.

The sting is in the final directive in the Pope’s text, in which he appears to abrogate Summorum Pontificum, with the words: “Previous norms, instructions, permissions, and customs that do not conform to the provisions of the present Motu Proprio are abrogated.”

The sad thing is that there are die-hard Catholics who will insist that Mr. Bergoglio is the True Vicar of Christ on Earth even if he were to publicly declare his love for Satan and sodomy in St. Peter's Square. But he's a lot closer to a vicar of Antichrist than of Jesus Christ.

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162 Comments:

Blogger Centinel July 16, 2021 2:16 PM  

Archbishop Vigano is the last vestige of leadership in the church. The Vatican is no less corrupt than the American Federal Government, it's a miserable state of affairs.

Blogger Greg from the Piedmont July 16, 2021 2:24 PM  

I have a question that can hopefully be answered by a long time practicing Catholic:

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much?

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira July 16, 2021 2:26 PM  

There will be Holy War.

Blogger Daniele Grech Pereira July 16, 2021 2:32 PM  

@2

I have a question that can hopefully be answered by a long time practicing Catholic:

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much?

Novus Ordo vs Latin Mass is like a Big Mac in the parking lot compared to a home-made, grass-fed, charcoal grilled patty in the backyard with the family. You can figure it out on your own from there.

As a side note, Paul IV was in communication with Saul Alinsky. THAT Saul Alinsky.

Blogger I’ve Seen Things You People Wouldn’t Believe July 16, 2021 2:32 PM  

So glad I left the Novus Ordo Anti-Church. I pray for the restoration of the True Faith. I attended a Latin Rite mass a few years ago and was struck by its beauty, grandeur, and faithfulness.

How they could canonize Paul VI as a "Saint" when he participated in and promulgated the destruction of The Church leaves me cold. A simple check of Mass attendance and vocations since 1965 will tell the tale.

Blogger Kraemer July 16, 2021 2:32 PM  

@2
It's an interesting conundrum. What little literature exists on excorsism suggests that demonic beings hate Latin prayer just as much as they hate Sacred Scriptures. A common strategy for excorsism is to pray in Latin using the Scriptures in Latin for a double whammy.

Blogger I’ve Seen Things You People Wouldn’t Believe July 16, 2021 2:36 PM  

@2: They hate the Latin Mass because it was the rite of the The Church for over 1,500 years, and they are committed to the destruction of the Church. They serve Satan and this world.

Blogger TheGhostlyOne July 16, 2021 2:37 PM  

One more nudge towards Orthodoxy.
All the “Thraco-Daco Romanian” clannishness and 1204-fueled butthurt on Earth, is as bad as having the Vatican captured by Satan, like this.
I would straight up become Muslim, before I’d go to their lame McMasses, and bow down to their corrupted, Chuck E. Cheese, Vatican II garbage.

This continues and continues, and no cleric does anything. Nothing. They are as useless as Republican Congressmen.

So many gutless leaders in the Western World. Why do those on the side of Truth have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, onto the battlefield?
The EWTN cuckservative branch of ultramontanists will no doubt find some way to explain it away, as Vox said, even though this doesn’t even pass in Canon Law, let alone theologically.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 2:37 PM  

@2 - Pope Francis is a Boomer or very late silent generation at 84. Boomer Catholics grew up in the "spirit of Vatican II". I am not joking that the vast majority of Boomer Catholics, even if sincere seem to hate even their childhood memories of the Latin Mass. Either that, a much smaller minority, hold up the Latin Mass as the only path to salvation, which is also a Boomer rebellion. It's the left/right paradigm of liberal US politics, both are of the same fundamental character.
To the young Catholics, the Latin Mass is 1800 years of tradition and beauty. Pope Francis, the now old hippie, it is all the hated regulation and supposed stiffness of their youth.
As a Gen X Catholic, I think Vatican II had a few correct points, including backing off of some of the legalisms introduced by Vatican I. On the whole however, the Boomerisms introduced into Catholic culture by Vatican II have been a nightmare.
That said, Pope Francis is not the future. His ideological children do not exist. The Latin Mass will find shelter in friendly orthodox bishops and they and their diocese are future, not the aging Boomer bishops with their pantsuit nuns.

Blogger orionka July 16, 2021 2:37 PM  

answering as a freshly baptized 33 year old from a SSPX parish: the traditional mass centers around god, the novus ordo around men.

Blogger TastyCakes July 16, 2021 2:40 PM  

Greg from the Piedmont wrote:I have a question that can hopefully be answered by a long time practicing Catholic:

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much?


As a life long Catholic, allow me to answer that. Because Francis is a Marxist Jesuit who does not believe in God, or the supernatural nature of the Body of Christ, and he despises anyone who does. For Francis, the Church is nothing more than a means to enact political change. He is not the Vicar of Christ--he doesn't even call himself that. He is a Gaia-worshipping heretic.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 2:43 PM  

"The sad thing is that there are die-hard Catholics who will insist that Mr. Bergoglio is the True Vicar of Christ on Earth even if he were to publicly declare his love for Satan and sodomy in St. Peter's Square. But he's a lot closer to a vicar of Antichrist than of Jesus Christ."

The word "Vicar" means "deputy or agent of in Latin. Christ is always the head of the Church, good or bad. When Popes from Peter on have gone astray, the duty of the Catholic is to follow Christ. The vast majority of Popes through time were not saints in the literal meaning of it, something to ponder. Catholicism from a certain POV is about learning to cope with a fallen human authority while following Christ. There's black belt spirituality about it.

I don't love Pope Francis, but there is no man easier in the world to pray for. God willing he will have to face his judgement first. That judgement will include the lifetime of actions to climb the global Catholic hierarchy while not believing in Catholicism. I walked away as pew sitter when I did not believe. Every Protestant who is not Catholic because they honestly do believe some of the doctrine is closer to Christ than Pope Francis is, at least from my vantage point thousands of miles away.

Blogger An American July 16, 2021 2:46 PM  

The word vicar means "One who takes the place of, or acts instead of, another; a substitute, representative, or proxy." It doesn't mean one who does this well or correctly, and the Church does not teach that it does. The Church does not and has never taught that popes cannot make mistakes or act improperly, even in extreme. In the Bible itself, we find that the St. Peter, the first pope, denied Christ thrice, and that St. Paul was forced to correct him for mistaken teaching. So there is no logical connection between "Francis is not a good pope" (clearly that is true) and "Francis is not the pope." I quite honestly don't understand why people fail to make that rather simple distinction.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 2:52 PM  

@10 - "answering as a freshly baptized 33 year old from a SSPX parish: the traditional mass centers around god, the novus ordo around men."

Maybe someday you will come to communion with the Catholic church, rather than worship a liturgy that also changed in the millennium it has existed. Are the Eastern Rite Catholics going to Hell because their Mass is not in Latin?

It's the same rebellion as the hippie heretics - to place a man made Mass before God and His Church.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 16, 2021 2:56 PM  

The men of the city, young and old, beset Lot's house, calling out and demanding: Bring out those men so that we may rape them.

That is the moment we are living in now.

Blogger Karen took the Kids July 16, 2021 2:58 PM  

Subversion is the name of the game. The same fake Pope that kissed migrants feet. Secret Latin masses is where we're at. War is on the horizon and real Catholics will welcome it.

Blogger Ibelin July 16, 2021 3:05 PM  

I grew up a traditional Roman Tridentine Mass Catholic. My dad warned me this would happen. It's only going to get worse

Blogger Unseen11 July 16, 2021 3:09 PM  

Now there's a boomer in need of a pillow, and not just a doughnut shaped one for his backside recently

Blogger Kingly Gift July 16, 2021 3:17 PM  

More Trad Caths are gonna have to convert to EO. Heretic Francis might be sainted after all.

Blogger Warunicorn July 16, 2021 3:22 PM  

Good thing I have Jesus instead of a megalomaniacal figurehead who's as wise as an ass, acting as gatekeeper. Boy, is he gonna be surprised when his ticket's punched.

Blogger markregan July 16, 2021 3:25 PM  

"The sad thing is that there are die-hard Catholics who will insist that Mr. Bergoglio is the True Vicar of Christ on Earth even if he were to publicly declare his love for Satan and sodomy in St. Peter's Square."

Didn't he do that already?!? Perhaps I'm confusing that with the Pachamama episode...

Blogger xevious2030 July 16, 2021 3:26 PM  

“restricting the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass”

This is a tell. It is a tell, for Popes and not-Popes. Cannon can be interpreted a number of ways, especially when applying certain sections to groups or individuals, specifically. Wisdom counts, and the Holy Spirit, not merely the fancies of men. But there is a hatred for this, TLM, among the wicked. To the point of chanting it, with inversion of lyrics, trying to resemble it in backwards pronunciation. The wicked hate this particular celebration.

Among the Vatican, those who champion TLM and who bury TLM, they provide a divide of distinction of sides. This does not render those that are proponents of TLM , perfect, but it puts forward an opportunity for reconsideration so as not to join in well-meaning rebellion through the denunciation of them. 2007 being an example. 2007 is a renunciation of VC II, and those that miss it are a bit on the retarded side on such things. Such denunciation (“denunciation of them”), based on interpretation, may rise to the occasion of making war on the faithful, a picking of sides. Among Roman Catholics.

Bergoglio can burn in Hell.

Blogger Brother Deke July 16, 2021 3:26 PM  

Holy Orthodoxy seems to be the way.

Blogger The Observer July 16, 2021 3:26 PM  

Now there's a boomer in need of a pillow, and not just a doughnut shaped one for his backside recently

I remember reading somewhere that he has late-stage stomach cancer, so.

Blogger Crazy Dave July 16, 2021 3:28 PM  

this proves that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was right. About all of it.

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 16, 2021 3:31 PM  

Ecumenicalism with Judaism is impossible with the TLM.

That seems the necessary and sufficient condition.

Blogger JaimeInTexas July 16, 2021 3:34 PM  

I grew up in the HRCC and attended many Tridentine Ma
No doubt that Vatican 2 Mass losses a lot of the awe inspiring Tridentine Mass.ss. The Cathedral, almost in from of my grandparents home, was Tridentine.
I left the HRCC a long time ago.

Blogger Taignobias July 16, 2021 3:34 PM  

That which venerates the Lord is anathema to his enemies. In whichever language, the Lord God of Hosts and his son, Christ Jesus of Nazareth, strike fear into the wicked.

Blogger Avalon John July 16, 2021 3:36 PM  

I will continue to pray for the pope (actually both of them), though I fear with the Pachamama disgrace and the Covid fiasco thardened to his course...

Blogger Ibelin July 16, 2021 3:37 PM  

@orionka, exactly, you nailed it

Blogger Gregory the Tall July 16, 2021 3:37 PM  

If you want to hear more about this development from someone who opposed this from the start together with Archbishop Lefebvre, you can find the weekly comments of Bishop Williamson here:
https://stmarcelinitiative.com/eleison-comments/

Blogger The Propaganda Resort July 16, 2021 3:39 PM  

The Novus Ordo is modernism's victory over the Catholic Church. Vae victis.

Blogger LoneWolf July 16, 2021 3:41 PM  

Anyone who doubted that the Jews are still calling the shots in the Vatican (which they have done since the death of Pope Pius XII) can be assured that (((they're))) still callin' 'em.

Blogger Pseudo Bessarion July 16, 2021 3:44 PM  

Pope Benedict XVI is still Pope whether he likes it or not. Anyone who wants to know how and why should check out Ann Barnhardt's first video on the Bergolian Antipapacy. It's long but worth it.

Blogger orionka July 16, 2021 3:44 PM  

I‘m not a rebel, nor are the parishoners I know. The direction since vatican ii is clear enough to see that the church is infiltrated and to see the point of the SSPX. Since shaking hands for the our father, environmentalism and social justice is surely not the route to Jesus I‘m quite confident in the cause of keeping together that which satans minions are after. Also SSPX is not in schism.

Blogger RyanBrodo July 16, 2021 3:47 PM  

Could it be that it's always been this way?

https://www.stolenhistory.org/articles/the-dark-secret-of-the-vatican-pagan-gods.219/

Blogger Newscaper312 July 16, 2021 3:57 PM  

@A Stranger

About the only good thing to come out of Vatican II is backing off on some of the old school insistence and even delight in other Christians going to hell. About everything else is destructive. Particularly a loss is how most churches built in the last 50 years threw out centuries of beautiful design and architecture in a misguided effort to appeal to Protestants (assuming not intentionally malicious).
Sure the Church is not a church, but a calming, uplifting environment can help put you in a reverential mindset and forget about the world for a while.

Blogger Robert Pinkerton July 16, 2021 3:58 PM  

Bergoglio is a Jesuit, SJ. Take the W away from "Social Justice 'Warrior,'" and you have SJ left.

Is Bergoglio "Petrus Romanus?" Time will tell.

Blogger Steve Canyon July 16, 2021 3:58 PM  

For the samecreasons exorcisms are more effective when the rite is done in Latin

Blogger van helsing July 16, 2021 4:02 PM  

red frankie the abrogator

Blogger Storm Rhode July 16, 2021 4:12 PM  

Catholic bishops caved on abortion in the us and birth control happened around that time too. Maybe dropping the Latin mass encouraged demonic immigration across the veil into the world.

Blogger Taqiyyotomist July 16, 2021 4:13 PM  

Ann Barnhardt on this:


Well, let’s see. Quo primum, the great document of Pope SAINT Pius V, issued on 14 July, ARSH 1570, said of the Tridentine Rite:

“We grant in perpetuity that this Missal is hereafter freely and lawfully to be used, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty or censure…
No one whosoever is permitted to alter this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, precept, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should anyone dare to contravene it, let him know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”

From your lips to God’s ear, Pope St. Pius V.

Blogger KC July 16, 2021 4:31 PM  

Anti-Pope Bergoglio was summed up nicely by Ann Barnhardt when he was first "elected." She said he is "a staggeringly stupid Jesuit from South America."

Blogger KC July 16, 2021 4:36 PM  

@2 The snarky answer is that I've heard exorcists say that the Devil hates Latin. The more accurate answer is that He is a Boomer's Boomer, and is wedded to the revolutions of the 1960s and the changes implemented by his generation after the second Vatican Council. He and his ilk will hold a death grip around the throat of Catholicism until the last breath leaves their bodies.

Blogger The Masked Menace July 16, 2021 4:36 PM  

We will not abandon The Citadel to traitors. Nor will we scurry away to the east. We will stay within the walls and resist. Deus Vult.

Blogger LoneWolf July 16, 2021 4:40 PM  

@7: "They serve Satan and this world."

Hear, hear! That nails it. No more need be said.

Blogger The Gaelic Lands July 16, 2021 4:40 PM  

God works in mysterious ways.#33 (Lone Wolf) comment on the Jews controlling the Vatican. Yes, the 33rd degree Masons under the puppet strings of Bnai Brith still run the show.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 4:47 PM  

@35 - The SSPX bishops and priests are not registered with the Holy See. They have as much relationship to the Vatican as the street corner megachurch. That is the rebellion.
I don't wanna deal with Pope Francis either, but part of Catholicism is dealing with it. The part is that one of the few moments of genuine authority in the Catholic hierarchy is to power to change the liturgy and ordering of the sacraments. It cannot change doctrine or the truth That the SSPX wishes to trap the Mass in time is no great testament to their faith, even if they are correct about the right to say the Latin Mass.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 4:49 PM  

@39 - My understanding is that exorcisms are done in the language of the possessed, because it involves them. It may also involve some Latin prayers as well.

Blogger The Masked Menace July 16, 2021 4:55 PM  

For the Roman Catholics out there. God placed you in this time for a reason. Hold the line and stand firm against the internal enemy. The Saints themselves will envy this our opportunity to prove our faithfulness. His Church is besieged and betrayed. Now is the time to rally to its defense.

Blogger wahr01 July 16, 2021 4:56 PM  

I suspect we're about to witness the birth of a new orthodox sect.

Blogger Matthew Baker July 16, 2021 5:01 PM  

Christ’s body, the church, must suffer more. But where the Camel’s back is broken is clear: if heresy is dogmatized. What we have here is terrible and offends me to the core. But hope is not lost.

Blogger Gettimothy July 16, 2021 5:06 PM  

We are blessed to live in such times.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel July 16, 2021 5:10 PM  

"I have a question that can hopefully be answered by a long time practicing Catholic:

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much"

That's not terribly hard and you don't have to be Catholic to understand it. Look at revolutionaries; they all attempt to obliterate the past as a form of gas lighting.

Roger Scruton coined the term oikophobia, but it's more than that. It's neomania.



The reality is PF's dictate is at war with reality.








Blogger Prof. Spudd July 16, 2021 5:39 PM  

Francis is as legitimate a Pope as Biden is President of the U.S.

Blogger Maidels July 16, 2021 5:53 PM  

Francis is Pope of the "New Order" schismatic church, whose documents were ratified in 1965. The heretics crafted a liturgical forgery (New Order Mass), and highjacked the buildings and the vestments. A few good bishops like Thuc and LeFebvre remained and consecrated new bishops so the church still stands. It's a small remnant, but we're still here.

Blogger The Pitchfork Rebel July 16, 2021 5:54 PM  

And just like that...game on.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/248400/archbishop-cordileone-traditional-latin-mass-will-continue-in-san-francisco







Blogger rcocean July 16, 2021 5:56 PM  

Interesting that even with Conservative Catholics the first inclination is never to fight, but Run away. What are you going to do when E/O gets converged?

Blogger JM July 16, 2021 5:58 PM  

Skarp Hedin wrote:Ecumenicalism with Judaism is impossible with the TLM.

That seems the necessary and sufficient condition.


Removing "Oremus et pro perfidis Judaeis" from TLM was the first step.

Because the meaning of "perfidious" has changed over the centuries, don't you know.

Blogger Reblane27 July 16, 2021 6:02 PM  

When young, I assisted at mass as an altar boy. Learned latin, felt attuned to God as I responded to the priest during mass. So mystical and holy. Then it all dissolved into plain English, as did I, losing my faith. Now, I am a few weeks away from baptism in the Russian Orthodox Church. I am blessed to return to our Lord.

Blogger Skarp Hedin July 16, 2021 6:04 PM  

Yes. This seems true. It has been reported that he was once punished by his superiors and sent to do a dissertation as pennance. He never finished it.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 16, 2021 6:12 PM  

May God damn the Pope for beating his own children. He is near death and I don't expect his tyrannical oppression of Christianity will continue much longer.

Blogger crash July 16, 2021 6:12 PM  

Podestas "catholic spring" is bearing fruit.

Blogger Ozymandius July 16, 2021 6:13 PM  

I remember being a kid and occasinally my father would have us attend the Latin Mass. He attended a Jesuit high school, college, and then law school so he was very familiar with Latin. I didn't understand what was being said but I remember how much I loved going! This was a large, old school Catholic church in southern California, and there was a huge pipe organ they played during parts of mass. It felt like church. It felt holy to me.

Currently I more identify with the Orthodox churches in my area. The formality and tradition feels like we are connecting with God and the teachings of Christ. I also really like that most of the priests are married and have families.

Blogger Steve Canyon July 16, 2021 6:16 PM  

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/34628/is-latin-the-best-language-for-exorcisms

Blogger Dorvannnn July 16, 2021 6:17 PM  

According to Saint Malachy's Prophecy of the Popes, Pope Francis is the last pope before the destruction of Rome.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Blogger steb July 16, 2021 6:23 PM  

This is massive overreach and several bishops have already told him to jog on. What's he offering them in exchange for irritating their most committed daily mass goers? The ones who hate the EF have already banned it.
But yes, he is the Pope. I honestly don't expect him to still be pope by December, one way or another, but today he is.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 16, 2021 6:28 PM  

Stranger in a strange land, what you neglect to mention is that the liturgy for 1800 years was ALWAYS focused on the Real Presence of the Lord, and practiced utmost reverence to Him. Your heretical Novus Ordo, which was not approved or affirmed by any Ecumenical Council, teaches disbelief in the Real Presence. Why, then, would anyone attend? Why be Catholic if it doesn't have the Real Presence? You old fashioned boomer fake Catholics are stuck in the 70s. Its time to move on and accept that tradition builds the future, and the spirit of the age drags you down to hell.

Blogger RedJack July 16, 2021 6:31 PM  

@26

Correct.

If you really believe there is no way to heaven except through Jesus, a lot of the current practice and worship of Churchians is revealed to be unchristian.

Blogger Pedro the Cat July 16, 2021 6:33 PM  

Once I read Matthew 15:1-14, I could no longer be a roman catholic, if ever I was one.

Instituting added rules by men that overrule Christ and the law are in the Savior's words to be ignored and those men abandoned.

Blogger Pathfinderlight July 16, 2021 6:57 PM  

Anything that references the "spirit of Vatican 2" is outright telling you that it's not official. Reasoning: it's always Marxists or their puppets that use the term. When Vatican 2 documents say what they want, Marxists will say "Vatican 2 documents say...". When Vatican 2 documents don't say what Marxists want they lie using the "spirit of Vatican 2" as their reasoning.

I would argue that the last updating of the mass form came half a century too late. By the time Vatican 2 happened, Marxists were already well entrenched in much of the church hierarchy.

Blogger SomeRando July 16, 2021 7:00 PM  

I do not understand how this can be described as a "sting" or a "crackdown" of TLM. The Latin Mass is still allowed, so long as the Bishop gives permission. The only thing it prevents is people starting their own parishes with the explicit intention of only having TLM.

If anything the decision is helpful: Now anyone attending TLM, wherever it is still offered, will be attending a valid mass (in Communion with Rome) where as before it was a grey area due to the number of people holding TLM being borderline schismatic at best (looking at you SSPX) or weirdoes in trailer-park cults at worst (Sedevacantists).

What I find more interesting is the continual coverage of Pope Francis. Every time he makes a statement, it is either intentionally mistranslated (as when the director of Oy Vey My Son Is Gay claimed the Pope supported gay marriage when he did not), or taken out of context or proportion.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 7:00 PM  

@68 - No liturgy is "magic". It does not change hearts and minds. Some liturgies are more reverent than others. We could easily have all the heretics we do right now saying the traditional Latin Mass.( That Latin Mass by the way has changed itself over that 1800 years. It was not a static thing.)

I am Gen X Catholic who believes that's God, right there at every communion. So does my Novus Ordo priest. Jesus is more than just that Latin Mass and the Son is more in general than any man made ritual.

Meanwhile, I don't know if I could have gotten my English speaking husband to attend a Mass in Latin. Sometimes too much formality is barrier and Catholicism certainly produces quite enough naturally.

The number one hazard of this type of argument and Catholicism in general is legalism. It is making Christ small for the sake of rituals all Catholics have never shared, thanks to the Eastern rites.

If you love a Latin Mass you should have it. But do not let that love be greater than what you have Christ and God.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 7:02 PM  

@65- Father Malachi Martin wrote a whole book on exorcisms. Very serious ones involve arguing with the demon in the language of the posessed.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 7:04 PM  

@60 - You can't be baptized again. You only get once, because it changes your soul forever. And the point of Mass is to learn to love God, not love a Mass. If you're at any worship, from Orthodox to evangelical to Catholic because you love the ceremony, rather than God, you missed the point.

Blogger Unknown July 16, 2021 7:08 PM  

I really have enough of all these people saying "the pope francis isn't a good man" "the pope francis is a heretic" "the pope francis is the vicar of the antichrist"

STOP SAYING THAT

Francis isn't the pope, he's the whore of Satan, the protector of pedophiles, and the only thing that should be said about him is that he should be burned at the stakes.
Complete lack of joking aside, it's really surprising how the novus ordo satanists haven't officially allowed abortion, think about the amount of baby murder it'd net for their master.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 16, 2021 7:09 PM  

Boomer churches are dying. Nobody goes. Everyone hates it. Its deathly boring and the music is gay. Traditional parishes have grown threefold. The Pope and his boomer cardinals are jealous of our success, so they want to steal it. If only they realized that all they had to do was remove the retarded, gay and unchristian Novus Ordo and say the Mass in Latin.

Blogger phil g July 16, 2021 7:15 PM  

Not me. He represents the temporay take over of the masons. He's a globalist mason.

Blogger phil g July 16, 2021 7:17 PM  

It has great sacred power

Blogger A trite re-white July 16, 2021 7:36 PM  

This is why we needs more Kurgen's.....

Fire to the heretics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84G_d7Oi1ac

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 16, 2021 7:36 PM  

THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT LEARNING, ENLIGHTENING, OR CHANGING HEARTS AND MONDS.
Fucking Boomers ruined Catholic education as well. The Mass is a bloodless recapitulation of the Sacrifice at Calvary. It allows us to join our offering and our sufferings to Christ's in a sensible way, as a community. It is a font of grace for those who celebrate.
The Mass is not a lecture, not a classroom, certainly not a sermon. You gain no more merit from the Mass if you understand and appreciate all the subtle nuances of language and ritual, than if you are a mentally retarded blind deaf beggar who can only repeat the one prayer his mother taught him, "Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner." Probably less.
Above all, THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

Blogger Don Womick July 16, 2021 7:37 PM  

Well, Judas was a disciple. At times like this it seems that many of the current hierarchy of the Church are his successors.

Blogger Shane Bradman July 16, 2021 8:02 PM  

Stranger in a strange land, interesting you characterize the Traditional Mass as some sort of idolatry when the Novus Ordo liturgy includes blatant idolatry of the priest. The Sacrifice of the Mass is the Last Supper, in perpetuity across all time. You do not go to the Mass to hear Fr Steve talk about the school nativity play. You do not go to the Mass to sing your favourite gay songs. You go to the Mass to receive the Blessed Sacrament and to participate in the Lord's sacrifice. If your husband can't deal with Latin, buy him the Roman Missal, which has an English translation of every word of the Mass. Instead you wish to desecrate the Lord and make golden calves out of pastoral councils and wacky Jesuit priests. We do not deserve such mercy from the Lord Jesus Christ that He allows Himself to be desecrated so that we can receive eternal life.

Blogger Mauldication Bear July 16, 2021 8:09 PM  

Someone let the fake pedo pope know we do not accept his terms.

Blogger Scott July 16, 2021 8:13 PM  

Like it matters. The Catholic Church started with Constantine, not Jesus or Peter.

Blogger Akulkis July 16, 2021 8:24 PM  

>> Could it be that it's always been this way?

>> https://www.stolenhistory.org/articles/the-dark-secret-of-the-vatican-pagan-gods.219/

This is why I always call it The Roman Church, because that's what it is ... Full of the paganism of ancient Rome.


Blogger Damelon Brinn July 16, 2021 8:25 PM  

I'm only surprised it took this long. Ratzinger's motu proprio allowing the true Mass came with a letter to the bishops making it clear that it wasn't intended to be permanent. It was supposed to pull older Catholics who still had an "attachment" to the Latin rite back to the regular fold until they could be eased into the Novus Ordo. It was never intended to create a separate traditional rite that would go on indefinitely, especially one where the families have lots of kids and bring them up in it. Latin Mass communities have been growing, which was not the intention at all.

Add to that the fact that Bergoglio has always hated it like he hates anything unashamedly Catholic, and this was inevitable.

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much?

Because it's the true Sacrifice of the Mass and says so, unlike the Novus Ordo which presents itself as a communal meal even when it's done correctly, which is rare. Everything about the Latin Mass, from the architecture to the music to the liturgy itself, points to God through Jesus Christ present on the altar. You could walk into a typical Novus Ordo service and not even be sure it's Catholic.

Blogger Akulkis July 16, 2021 8:29 PM  

>> So there is no logical connection between "Francis is not a good pope" (clearly that is true) and "Francis is not the pope."


That flies in the face of the Roman church's doctrine of "Papal Infallibility"

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 16, 2021 8:32 PM  

Every time he makes a statement, it is either intentionally mistranslated (as when the director of Oy Vey My Son Is Gay claimed the Pope supported gay marriage when he did not), or taken out of context or proportion.

His statements are designed to be misinterpreted, like all Modernist language. He says something that everyone with common sense knows means X, but his defenders can claim didn't actually mean that, he meant Y. But he never actually comes out and clarifies that he meant Y, not X, which is how you know he's fine with everything thinking "the Pope says X."

I don't know if he still does this because I stopped paying any attention to him, but he used to interview frequently with an atheist friend who would quote him without ever taking notes or recording it. So he could be quoted as saying heretical things, but people who didn't want to believe him a heretic could say, "Well, the interviewer didn't take notes so he probably just got it wrong." That could happen once, and be corrected with a statement. After it happened a few times, and Bergoglio never corrected the "mistakes" or stopped giving this atheist interviews, the strategy was clear.

Don't be such a sucker.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 16, 2021 8:33 PM  

"We will not abandon The Citadel to traitors."

Eleventh hour, possession is 9/10ths of the law, and there ain't room enough for the both of y'all. Soon, you'll either be the only ones standing, or we'll be welcoming you to the ongoing diaspora of the Church.

"The SSPX bishops and priests are not registered with the Holy See. They have as much relationship to the Vatican as the street corner megachurch. That is the rebellion."

Rebellion would be if they were registered to start with. Rebellion is now a more proper category for what any Catholics still practicing the TDLR are doing. It doesn't matter anymore that you forbore and refused to reject Bergoglio. He's rejecting you. Schism is now in session.

"Above all, THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT YOU."

From what you have said, the Mass is a combination of ritual, observance, and worship. I would assume that it matters which ritual is performed, what is observed, and who is worshipped. Am I missing the point?

"No liturgy is "magic". It does not change hearts and minds"

It is what comes out of a man's mouth that defiles him. If the Catholic doctrine of Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi is correct, then men eventually believe as they speak. Consequently I'll have to disagree with you.

"If you love a Latin Mass you should have it. But do not let that love be greater than what you have Christ and God."

Bergoglio isn't allowing you the option. If the Novus Ordo is indeed inferior, then it is Bergoglio who you are allowing to be greater than your love for Christ and God.

Pick one.

Blogger cyrus83 July 16, 2021 8:50 PM  

While Latin is important in the tradition of the Latin Rite, the form of Mass is more the field of battle. What people may not realize if they have not attended a TLM is that most of the Mass, especially at a low Mass, is inaudible to the congregation. Once the priest begins the Offertory, the Preface to the Canon and the Pater Noster are about the only texts of any length the people will hear aside from very short phrases that signal where the priest is in the Mass.

The whole point of the older form of Mass is that the priest is there to offer sacrifice to God, and it looks not the least bit out of place if there is no congregation behind him. Again and again the texts remind both priest and people that all present are sinners and unworthy, and the selection of readings tends to repeat certain passages and themes throughout the year.

There are many in power in the Church, including Bergoglio, who fear the TLM because it stands in opposition to their entire careers and worldview. They are mostly an alliance of aging Boomers and the generation before that gave rise to and was sympathetic to the Boomers. This too will fail, though the Boomers running the Church are doing their hardest to make a noisy and messy exit from the scene.

Blogger LoneWolf July 16, 2021 8:55 PM  

The true Catholic Church is the Church of the latin Mass, and it is directly opposed to the enemies of God who are, without question, Satan's little workers. The (((enemies of God))) had to destroy that which stood in (((their))) way to achieve global domination of the goyim. So they installed (((their))) masonic puppet, John XXXIII, and convened the Second Vatican Council in order to begin the process of demolition. Anyone who has eyes to see, and especially those who were of the age of reason before the disaster of VII, cannot help but see what has happened to the Catholic Church. It was driven underground into the catacombs. Now, with this supposed nail in the coffin of the True Faith, the real persecution of faithful Catholics will begin. Viva Christo Rey.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 9:40 PM  

@90- "Rebellion would be if they were registered to start with. Rebellion is now a more proper category for what any Catholics still practicing the TDLR are doing. It doesn't matter anymore that you forbore and refused to reject Bergoglio. He's rejecting you. Schism is now in session."

What you are talking about? SSPX will claim they are not in schism. One of the doctrines of Catholicism is accepting the authority of Vatican. It is asking Peter, like Paul did. If they are not acknowledged by the Holy See, they are not Catholic. Christian, sure. But Catholic, no. But they do claim Catholic, usually more than thou.

Meanwhile, who gives a darn if a Pope likes me or not. He's as stuck with me as I am with him. I care only for Christ's opinion. This form of Catholicism is intensely brittle and me focused.

"It is what comes out of a man's mouth that defiles him. If the Catholic doctrine of Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi is correct, then men eventually believe as they speak. Consequently I'll have to disagree with you."

You are supposed to love Christ and God with all your strength. If you cannot do that without a particular Mass said in particular way, then I would offer that the love you have is very weak, if it exists at all.

And further, no liturgy is magic. The problem with the hyper focus on the Roman Rite is that is to forget that there are Eastern Rite Catholics. I know several. They are not going to Hell because it's not a TLM. I suppose they should get their feelings hurt because the Pope did not even mention them this go around. You at least got a mention.

Blogger Damelon Brinn July 16, 2021 9:42 PM  

While Latin is important in the tradition of the Latin Rite, the form of Mass is more the field of battle.

It's everything about it. They changed everything in the several years following Vatican II: the language, the words and form of the Liturgy and the Sacraments, the music, the vestments and habits, the architecture, the altar, the calendar, the catechism, the orders (steps toward priesthood), and everything else they could think of. It was a true revolution, and they didn't stop halfway. The only thing they didn't touch then was the Rosary, but JPII got to that with his "Luminous Mysteries." In another triumph of Modernist language, he presented them as an alternative for personal use, but in such a way that most people started using them regularly in groups, and now they'll tell you there are 20 mysteries in a full rosary instead of 15. Which is a problem because the 15 decades of 10 Aves corresponded to the 150 Psalms and the Divine Office read daily by religious orders, and 20 means nothing. Just another centuries-old tradition discarded for a bit of novelty.

Having tainted the Rosary, in the last several years they've pushed the Divine Mercy devotion as an alternative for using your rosary beads. It takes about 1/3 the amount of time of the Rosary, gets rid of the whole embarrassing Mary aspect, and was introduced by a Polish nun whose sainthood is sketchy and probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been excited to canonize a Polish saint for the Polish pope. So that's nice.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 9:47 PM  

@83 - I call it as I see it. I have been going to terrible masses for years for the sake of Christ. Y'all can learn a little suck it up, too.

When I meet with the TLM diehards, I find people who if the conditions are not perfect and the ritual is not exactly right then that's justification for any number of unChristian sentiments. It is obvious they have come to worship the Mass itself instead of the point of that Mass. In that, the development of creating an idol of the liturgy itself, God is right to allow it to be taken away. To the extent that the idol worship has happened, yeah, it's a good thing.

Christ died for us. We can handle less than perfect on Sunday, not that it ever was.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 9:50 PM  

@88 - The doctrine of Papal infallibility is very specific. It says Popes are only infallible when speaking ex cathedra, which many Popes have literally never done. It's only been used two or three times, each having to do with point about Mary. The Church is very clear that this Pope is fallible every time he speaks to date.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 16, 2021 9:50 PM  

@87 - Excellent comment. Thank you.

Blogger Crush Limbraw July 16, 2021 10:10 PM  

I doubt the average practicing Catholic knows any more about his church or Christ than the average Churchian.

Blogger Sam July 16, 2021 10:26 PM  

He hates the Latin Mass because its adherents have formed a Church within a Church and will one day threaten schism. For good or ill, the Roman Church will maintain unity, Latin be damned.

Blogger Glen Sprigg July 16, 2021 10:30 PM  

The Masked Menace wrote:We will not abandon The Citadel to traitors. Nor will we scurry away to the east. We will stay within the walls and resist. Deus Vult.
Amen, brother! Pass the whetstone; there are modern Saracens to smite.

Blogger cylindrical crown July 16, 2021 10:32 PM  

There is a 1973 TV movie (probably considered science fiction then) about monks in Ireland in 2000 conducting mass in Latin in defiance of Vatican 2 and Vatican 4. Don't remember much of the plot, but it seems to have predicted the future somewhat and the Vatican attempts to lay down the law to this counter reformation. The movie was called "Catholic" and/or "Conflict".

Blogger Glen Sprigg July 16, 2021 10:43 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT LEARNING, ENLIGHTENING, OR CHANGING HEARTS AND MONDS.

Fucking Boomers ruined Catholic education as well. The Mass is a bloodless recapitulation of the Sacrifice at Calvary. It allows us to join our offering and our sufferings to Christ's in a sensible way, as a community. It is a font of grace for those who celebrate.

The Mass is not a lecture, not a classroom, certainly not a sermon. You gain no more merit from the Mass if you understand and appreciate all the subtle nuances of language and ritual, than if you are a mentally retarded blind deaf beggar who can only repeat the one prayer his mother taught him, "Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner." Probably less.

Above all, THE MASS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

Which is why Boomers don't understand the Mass, and never will. Everything is about them; just ask them.

Blogger LR July 16, 2021 10:51 PM  

@2
Why does Francis hate the Latin Mass?

Because he is not really a genuine Christian, let alone a traditional Catholic.

https://lilarajiva.com/2015/09/30/pope-francis-the-white-crucifixion/

"And it is this rabid anti-Christian, incarnational Hasidism that permeates the painting.
Whether Chagall fully knew what he was doing is debatable, but Francis surely does.
Francis’ public embrace of this anti- Christian art cannot be accidental."

https://lilarajiva.com/2015/10/01/pope-francis-public-heresy/

https://lilarajiva.com/2015/10/02/is-pope-francis-practicing-talmudism-covertly/

Blogger LR July 16, 2021 10:53 PM  


@34@42@43@53

Ann Barnhardt and the term ARSH:

https://lilarajiva.com/2015/04/14/gary-north-gets-disinfo-barnhardt-right/

She writes that she is going to fight the common era crowd (those who use C.E. or common era, rather than A.D. or anno domini, year of our lord), by using her own term:

So, I have decided to go super hardcore in my war against the “common era” crowd. There is actually a notation that is way old-school, that is even more in-your-face than Anno Domini. Check it:

A.R.S.H.

Anno
Reparatae
Salutis
Humanae

“In The Year Of The Reparation Of Human Salvation”

I have put the request in to the webwizard to change the date formatting at the top of each post to this format. I will also be writing ARSH on everything I date from now on, replacing my standard “AD”.

The phrase “reparation of human salvation” seems to come from the writings of a medieval Cistercian prioress, Beatrice of Nazareth (in Belgium), whose meditations show up in collections of medieval feminine mysticism.

The removal of the masculine “our lord” with its reference to Jesus and its replacement with “reparation” and “human salvation” (strangely similar to the kabbalistic “tikkun olam“) is quite significant and gives us a clue to the agenda behind Barnhardt.

But this strange, made-up, religio-feminist phrase that Barnhardt feeds gullible Catholic traditionalists already has a meaning.

An Islamic web-site explains:

A: According to Muslim scholars, and the Arabic language, `Arsh means a throne or a throne belonging to a king.

The `Arsh of Allah is an extremely large and great Throne; it is the greatest thing created by Allah. It has four legs, and is carried by Angles. Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) is above the `Arsh as He (Glorified and Exalted be He) says about Himself: <> (Surah Taha 20:5). And: <> (Surah Al-A’raf 7:54).

Thus, it is a significantly large `Arsh; none knows how great the size of its magnificence is except Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) Who created it (but we are told by the Prophet that it is very large). This `Arsh is like a dome stretching over the entire universe; it is the ceiling of the whole universe. It is also the ceiling of Paradise; nothing is above it except Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He).

How’s that for a little New World Order insider fun at the expense of Christian rubes?



Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 16, 2021 11:14 PM  

"That flies in the face of the Roman church's doctrine of "Papal Infallibility""

I've been down that argument before. The response is that the Pope is only infallible when he's interpreting the grey areas, not infallible period.

Blogger Jack July 16, 2021 11:36 PM  

I have a question that can hopefully be answered by a long time practicing Catholic:

Why does Francis and his minions hate the Latin Mass so much?


Primarily for theological-political reasons. The Latin Mass is a flag representing a certain view of the Church rooted in its medieval and counter-reformation history, where Catholicism was viewed as the one true religion and the only divinely instituted path to God. Since the Second Vatican Council in the 60s the vast majority of the Catholic leadership has been committed to a dramatically more liberal vision of the Church than their medieval and counter-reformation predecessors, suggesting in some as yet and mostly vague and ill-defined way that Catholicism is not the only true religion and not the only divinely instituted path to God. Catholic Traditionalists who are broadly opposed to this new Liberal idea of Catholicism inaugurated at the Council are by far the greatest thorn in the side of those bishops (the vast majority) who want to see the Church "open up to the (modern) world" and be more accommodating to other religions; the Traditionalists and the post-conciliar Catholics diverge at such a crucial point of their understanding of faith and religion, that they basically end up with completely different visions of the Church and its purpose, right down to its rituals and ceremonies. They can't really tolerate each other and are engaged in a kind of ecclesiastical cold war, with the liberals holding almost all the official power but with the Trads gaining slowly but surely on the ground.

The situation is more or less exactly analogous to post-war Western politics and the Liberal establishment's hysterical rush to suppress any vital signs of Nationalism. Traditionalist Catholics are much more likely to have right-wing, nationalistic, authoritarian, etc., political views... Francis is a very politically conscious Pope and is very committed to the New World Order project as a whole against the old sovereign Nation States, so attacking Traditionalists in his own Church is about the best he can do to strike down his political opponents, the Pope being quite an impotent figure politically at least compared to his predecessors from centuries past.

So the "Traditional Latin Mass", in its current ecclesiastical and political context, where it has basically come to mean opposition to the liberalisation of the Church and commitment to a kind of medieval Catholic pride and militarism, is opposed to everything that Pope Francis and his fellow Bishops stand for, and they can hardly imagine a greater demon in the world right now. Pope Benedict thought that Traditionalists and the more modern Catholics could dialogue and come to some kind of agreement, but Francis has given up on this and basically admitted that there can't and never will be an agreement between the two. In some ways Francis' view is the more realistic, but it's also an admission that peace is lost and more war is on the horizon.

Personally I think Benedict was correct insofar as a reconciliation of Traditionalism in many of its aspects and the post-conciliar Church is possible, but it would require a degree of humility, mutual concessions, and intellectual subtlety that Benedict himself has but which most people on both sides lack.

We're at a crossroads in contemporary society, where we seem unable to reconcile our ancient ethnic, national, cultural, religious identities with the push for a global culture and international form of government. This crisis is present in the Catholic Church as much as anywhere. The localists vs the globalists, the particularists vs the universalists, the nationalists vs the humanists, etc., is the great question of the day, and nobody as yet has had the political or intellectual genius to solve it, or even really pose the problem in a public and coherent way. We're going to need a new Napoleon in politics and a new Kant in philosophy to sort this mess out... and a new prophet on religion.

Blogger Electric Dinosaur July 16, 2021 11:41 PM  

You can have a bad Pope and he still remains the Pope.
Bad times make great Saints, though, and we shall see what saints are to be born.

Blogger teemac July 17, 2021 12:04 AM  

i remember as an altar boy, maybe 10ish, when they spun the altar 180, and the focus of the mass off the cross and onto the priest(and by extension us altar boys).i didnt understand anything then, although it was obvious the spotlight had moved.

Blogger xevious2030 July 17, 2021 12:32 AM  

“Rebellion is now a more proper category for what any Catholics still practicing the TDLR are doing.”

Only as a matter of perspective, in the same way God is rebelling against Satan. Which is an improper perspective. And an improper categorization. It could be argued, but in the end it will be moot.

The system and organization are methods to serve a master, and their legitimacy is based on that service to that master. To put it another way, if all of Fort Knox were filled with pyrite, it would not tarnish the value or use of gold, and it would neither increase the value of, nor the substance of pyrite. Likewise, it would not invalidate an actual gold Exchange.

Blogger Hank Archer July 17, 2021 12:56 AM  

Daniele Grech Pereira - Pope Paul IV served in the mid 1500s.

Blogger pyrrhus July 17, 2021 1:27 AM  

Why the Catholics would ever give up the Latin Mass is beyond me..it's their best selling point..We attended the partially sung latin mass in Florence, and it was impressive..

Blogger ManHugeO July 17, 2021 1:56 AM  

Time to rise up True Catholics. Not like we ever gave a shit about this "Pope" or what he ever says. Hopefully this wakes up the "mainstream" Catholics.

Blogger cyrus83 July 17, 2021 2:02 AM  

@94

The tinkering in the name of "doing things better" has a long history in the Office and the Mass going back well before the council, there are notable changes beginning in 1911, then again in 1955, 1962, and 1965 before the old rite was replaced.

It's not the first time it's happened, there was so much tinkering going on in the fourteenth through sixteenth centuries, not helped by certain priests setting up their own rites and sects, that Rome eventually published a standard and reprobated any variation that hadn't been around at least 200 years.

It would hardly be a surprise for there to be a new Trent down the road that takes up the task of sweeping out the dreck of the 20th century and especially the age of Francis.

Blogger Dex July 17, 2021 2:09 AM  

I've never felt so vindicated for being seda vacantis

Blogger Shane Bradman July 17, 2021 2:17 AM  

Agreeing with everything the Pope says has nothing to do with schism. We are allowed, as charitable Christians, to disagree with the Pope when he is in error. The Spirit of Vatican I was that everything the Pope says is holy and true. This is error. The Spirit of Vatican II is that tradition is unnecessary. This is error. If you fall into either of these errors, you must repent or risk the salvation of your soul.

We do not idolise Latin. We love the Eastern Rite and their beautiful liturgy. Latin is not required. However, the Latin Rite, according to Sacrosanctum Concilium, a Vatican II document, MUST preserve the use of the Latin language. The Novus Ordo does not have a single word of Latin. It is not compliant to Vatican II. Does this mean the Novus Ordo is a heretical and schismatic form of the Mass?

The SSPX has never been in schism and the excommunications were illegitimate because there was no excommunicable offense. Meanwhile, Pope Francis has directly contradicted his predecessors, and made statements that under the Council of Trent are considered anathemas. We live in difficult times with difficult questions to answer, and I don't know what the right position is, but I know absolutely that siding with Pope Francis in the attack on tradition is wrong. Pope Francis is wrong, and it is not anathema or schismatic whatsoever to point out this truth. Christ would never kick us out of His Church for pointing out the truth and standing by it.

Blogger Pedro Rocha July 17, 2021 2:59 AM  

I cannot answer that, but Mr Kurgan might have a far better explanation. One thing that comes to mind is that being in latin, and following the same protocol, it becomes universal in Christendom, serving as an uniting point for cristians. Being the current joke that the [insert language]-mass is now, it becomes something more like a show than something sacred. It devalues and makes it easier to corrupt. Here the churches are controlled by the N.O. priests and women. Idk why but women were more displeased with the traditional aspects than men, who didn't really care if it was in latin or not (i remember that there was a discussion when i was very young and there was a clear separation between the genders on this topic because i remember noticing it.)

Blogger TheGhostlyOne July 17, 2021 3:28 AM  

“When I meet with the TLM diehards, I find people who if the conditions are not perfect and the ritual is not exactly right then that's justification for any number of unChristian sentiments. It is obvious they have come to worship the Mass itself instead of the point of that Mass.”

Nonsense. These are two, totally-different religions, with two totally different, and contradictory outlooks. “TLM Catholicism” is as different from “Novus Ordo Catholicism” is either are from Mahayan Buddhism, when it comes to the mentalities and attitudes of people. One is a holy sacrifice, offered by a sacrificial priesthood, while the other is kindergarten-minded boomers celebrating themselves (through their “power of community”), and the two holiest, communist rapists, MLK Jr., and Nelson Mandela.

Yet you are calling people “unChristian” because they don’t tolerate the piece of garbage that is the Novus Ordo, while your sick hierarchy is full-up with child-rapists.

The argument that because Christ suffered on the cross, or because you aren’t perfect, that now you have to accept a banal fabrication (Pope Benedict’s own words) that is, as it is practiced (sticking solely to the book is how you cucks try to bait and switch), an outright mockery of humanity and God, Next time, let’s have a pool-side mass, with cookouts and a live band. Oh wait, you Vatican II Jeffs and Karens have already done it. In Hawaii, it’s as common as the shitty Negro Spirituals you clap to in your kindergarten liturgy.


Blogger TheGhostlyOne July 17, 2021 4:48 AM  

“We will not abandon The Citadel to traitors. Nor will we scurry away to the east. We will stay within the walls and resist. Deus Vult.”

That’s a rousing statement. I’m going to take it to heart.

Blogger Reichenberg July 17, 2021 5:02 AM  

To elucidate, a few important observations are in order.

I.) Yes, pope Francis appears to be a communist, namely of liberation theology, a marxist mockery of Catholic social teaching (see Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno), hell-bent on destroying the Catholic Church. he is also very heavily against Tradition.In fact, the seer of La Salette (to whom the Holy Virgin appeared) mentioned that there will be two “worm-ridden popes” before the Catholic Monarch arrives. Pope Francis definitely appears to be ridden with worms. Very heavily ridden.

II.) The Catholic Church is still the One true Church on Earth. “You are Peter and upon this rock I found my Church, and the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it.”

Note: He did NOT found it on Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, William Bullein Johnson, William Booth or anyone else. MAYBE some of these people were well-intentioned, for example wesley or booth, but they still advocated false or defective teachings, that ultimately (did and do) lead people to Hell (unless there is a very special grace, basically a miracle, that leads these believers of false doctrine to Catholicity right before or at the moment of death). Outside the Church there is no salvation, that is what the Church Fathers and Doctors and Saints have always taught, from the earliest times. Just to name one, Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430), whom the Protestants like to quote often:

“No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

III.) Francis is still the real pope, the True Vicar of Christ on Earth. He was canonically elected, his predecessor, Benedict, canonically resigned. Despite whatever novusordowatch and the dimond brothers (“most holy family monastery”) and the others tell you. A bad Pope is still Pope. I am (all too) familiar with all the Sede, the Prot and the Ortho arguments regarding this.

There have been heretical popes before. But the teaching, the Holy Tradition has always remained intact. It still is, and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.

PS
Everybody should attend the Latin Mass, the True Sacrifice of the Ages, instituted by Jesus the Christ.

Blogger Reichenberg July 17, 2021 5:36 AM  

A stranger in a strange land wrote:@35 - The SSPX bishops and priests are not registered with the Holy See. They have as much relationship to the Vatican as the street corner megachurch. That is the rebellion.


WRONG.

https://twitter.com/meaningofcath/status/1249737959135469568?lang=en

Stop spreading lies.

Blogger Reichenberg July 17, 2021 5:48 AM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:"That flies in the face of the Roman church's doctrine of "Papal Infallibility""

I've been down that argument before. The response is that the Pope is only infallible when he's interpreting the grey areas, not infallible period.


The pope is only infallible when he specifically invokes infallibility. So far it has happened only twice: 1870 - the Immaculate Conception and 1950 - The Assumption. Basically, when defining dogma.

Blogger Straitsfan July 17, 2021 5:50 AM  

The good news is that time is running out for all of these modernists. The TLM is growing, and they can't stop it, because soon they'll all be dead, and they'll have to answer to God for what they've done to the church.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 6:30 AM  

@105 - A correction on Papal infallibility. He's only infallible speaking ex cathedra, which no modern Pope has ever done. So the Church says a Pope is fallible theoretically every time he opens his mouth to speak.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 7:15 AM  

@115 - Schism is not defined by saying you're not in schism. It's whether or not the Holy See knows about you. The SSPX are not recognized by the Holy See. The thing is done.

The Eastern Orthodox say the same thing, by the way on the Vatican. They'll go down that road of "but it's not a schism" and "they left us" over a thousand years after the Great Schism.

Protestants get the nod on this point for a base honesty that the SSPX do not have.

Meanwhile the FSSP have been growing before this announcement and fully recognized by the Holy See. If the SSPX was really about wanting the old rites and not about rebellion, why is the FSSP not good enough? Crickets. Assuming no outright idol worship, the SSPX is the other Boomer rebellion that came from Vatican II, lead by the silents.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 7:25 AM  

@120 - Atheists redefine terms as part of their argument "style". If the SSPX is recognized by the Holy See, then I apologize for spreading a falsehood. The SSPX insisting that they are not in schism because they redefine the word "schism" or "Catholic" is exactly dealing with an atheist.

The FSSP is not in schism and up until yesterday was growing and available to many who wanted a Latin Mass. What's wrong with attending their Masses?

I am sympathic to that want and need, but not to the point of lying about it or frankly the realities of the mess of the modern Church.

Further, frankly there is also much anger and pettiness associated with the SSPX, at least when I encounter them. Things have to be their way and God requires the 1962 Roman Rite for some reason for people to be saved. Well, okay. That's Boomerville again with a much better taste in liturgy. /shrug

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 7:33 AM  

@119 - The Latin Mass did not exist in the time of Jesus or the Apostles. In fact, it had to be explicitly approved of by a later Pope. Thus we are dealing with the sometimes dubious histories I have with to tackle with Protestants on Church history.
The Body of Christ and therefore the Church is mystical body, not an administrative one. There is no salvation outside the Church, but the Vatican does not know all followers of Christ. That even happened during the Gospel era, with Jesus dismissing worries about those who were working outside of the formal disciples.
Further, most of that defining of the Catholic Church as the only Church business did not happen at the Great Schism (I guess the Orthodox are okay and in Heaven), but near the Protestant Crisis. Notice you're not coming out swinging against the figures of the Eastern Orthodox, but our Protestant brethren. Well, that's not particular fair or consistent, is it?

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 7:38 AM  

@115 - My Novus Ordo uses Latin and most implementations around the world do at key points. It's mostly the US that missed the boat and went 100% English.
Meanwhile, I defend only the truth as I understand it. Pope Francis is fallible man who will see his judgement day probably sooner rather than later now. If I end up agreeing with him on a couple of points, including seeing some outright idol worship going on, so be it.
My sympathies really are with the traditionalists and not Pope Francis. That does mean either the traditionalists or myself are perfect on any point.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 7:49 AM  

@117 -
Two thoughts
1) Are you attending any Mass, including a TLM? I'm practicing right now, including the attending Mass that is supposed "new religion". My orthodox NO priest I think would get a chuckle out of the idea he's practicing Buddhism. You sound like you stopped attending in 1965 and never went back.
2)Your post is full of unChristian sentiments. Christ, the Son of God, was mocked with a crown thorns. For some reason, you can't handle the humility involving a bad worship band. Frankly in years of being in and out of the Church post 1990's, it was never that bad in my personal experience. Even my local hippie dippie parish manages a great deal of reverence, even if the belief is wanting.
Reverent = perfect or to my exact taste is awfully good reason to never show anywhere.

Blogger Jason July 17, 2021 8:15 AM  

@ A Stranger. Pope F and the Modernists in Rome don't accept the teachings of the perennial Church and its head -- Christ. If the SSPX aligns itself with Christ and the perennial church v. Modernist Rome, who is in schism?

Do you expect the faithful to fall in line with error out of [false] obedience?

Blogger Maniac July 17, 2021 8:21 AM  

"According to Saint Malachy's Prophecy of the Popes, Pope Francis is the last pope before the destruction of Rome."

I believe that whoever is the Pope at the time of the Antichrists's revealing will be his False Prophet/Second Beast.

Blogger Derrick Bonsell July 17, 2021 8:35 AM  

He's still an insanely popular pontiff so what that says about Catholics is pretty dire.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 9:05 AM  

@129 - Christ is the head of Church. That's why the Pope is a "Vicar", an agent or deputy of Christ. That does not mean he's a good vicar or a wise one. Just the vicar.
Christ put the Peter, the first Pope in charge for good or bad. There were many seemingly better candidates in the bunch, including John, Thomas and later Paul. I don't know why it's difficult to allow Peter to be Peter, but it's one heck of spiritual mountain climb it seems.

Blogger DoubleB July 17, 2021 9:19 AM  

I’ve been to a highly traditional Catholic Church that had Latin low mass almost every day I think. Wonder if they will obey the Pope or keep to tradition.

Blogger SciVo July 17, 2021 9:51 AM  

@Skarp Hedin:
Ecumenicalism with Judaism is impossible with the TLM.

That seems the necessary and sufficient condition.


On that note, best I can tell, the way that we got conquered-in-place by our leadership class alienating itself from us is that it got judaized.

And so that is why they treat us the way that a foreign conqueror would. Because they effectively are one.

Blogger TheGhostlyOne July 17, 2021 11:04 AM  

“1) Are you attending any Mass, including a TLM? I'm practicing right now, including the attending Mass that is supposed \"new religion\". My orthodox NO priest I think would get a chuckle out of the idea he's practicing Buddhism. You sound like you stopped attending in 1965 and never went back.”

I am exclusively TLM. I follow the I.C.K.S.P. pretty much entirely.
I’ve seen masses in many different N.O. parishes, of all different types. Most are similar to the liturgies of liberal branches of “mainline” Protestantism. In fact, the priestesses who lead those liberal Protestant churches, and who practice a liturgy similar to the N.O., often go by the Roman Missal.
The Novus Ordo was designed to be deficient. Benedict called it a “Banal fabrication.”
In the Archdiocese of St. Louis, perhaps the MOST orthodox archdiocese in the U.S., there is ONE Latin Novus Ordo. This is in an archdiocese with half a dozen regular TLMs, and multiple sites of Eastern Catholicism, and this was only possible because the parish is full
of Hungarian immigrants.

“2)Your post is full of unChristian sentiments. Christ, the Son of God, was mocked with a crown thorns. For some reason, you can't handle the humility involving a bad worship band. Frankly in years of being in and out of the Church post 1990's, it was never that bad in my personal experience. Even my local hippie dippie parish manages a great deal of reverence, even if the belief is wanting.“

Condemning everyone else as unchristian and idolatrous, while acting in such a self-righteous, arrogant way,
and even comparing yourself to Christ, is a lot worse than violating a few feelings, especially when it is for their own good. A “bad band,” isn’t the problem. Any band is. That’s not serious. It’s a bunch of useless emoting by narcissists. Not all are narcissists, but all of the movers and shakers are usually cluster B types.
Also, I’m a father of five. Kissing the asses of people doing wrong is not how I am supposed to be. It’s actually sinning to be the soft-hearted cuck you types pretend to admire. Calling someone “unchristian” and “uncharitable” in these discussions, is like calling a man gay because he casts off feminism. It’s empty shaming language. Which I suppose works in churches that are 80% female, with masses said by priests who are homosexuals and pedophiles, and assisted by an army of insufferable altar girls.

Didn’t you go to a parish that was all about Latin? Now you’re saying it’s hippy dippy? It’s always bait and switch with you people. Why?

Blogger Scott July 17, 2021 12:01 PM  

Precisely. Constantine was head of an Empire where paganism was decreasing in popularity and Christianity increasing. So he got together with the priestly caste and combined the two, to help solidify the Empire.

Blogger Nick July 17, 2021 12:17 PM  

Benedict the 16th should never have resigned. He is the true Pope. Francis is an anti-Pope. Church history is littered with such shenanigans over the Papacy.

Blogger Les July 17, 2021 2:39 PM  

This "Pope" is a revolutionary. God is not. The Latin Mass, and all tradition, are counter-revolutionary by nature and content. What do you suppose the revolutionary would do?

As to the Novus Ordo... it's illegitimate and always has been. VII was not a doctrinal council. It was a "pastoral council". Whatever that was supposed to mean.

Blogger A stranger in a strange land July 17, 2021 4:22 PM  

@135 - "I am exclusively TLM. I follow the I.C.K.S.P. pretty much entirely."

Yeah, not a shock. It's hard to imagine what people are thinking, when they note that sometimes an excess of focus on the TLM does not produce most charitable of people.

"In the Archdiocese of St. Louis, perhaps the MOST orthodox archdiocese in the U.S., there is ONE Latin Novus Ordo. "

There's noting wrong with vernacular. The original Latin Mass was in the vernacular. The Anglicans have beautiful English liturgies. A genuine worship can be had in any language. Latin is not magical or special in that regard.

"Condemning everyone else as unchristian and idolatrous, while acting in such a self-righteous, arrogant way,
and even comparing yourself to Christ, "

I did not compare myself to Christ. I noted that if the Son of God can wear a crown of thorns, which actually hurts like son of a gun on top of it all, then maybe you can make it through a less than perfect by your own standards Mass. Food for thought.

" It’s a bunch of useless emoting by narcissists."

So is this endless pounding about the TLM is going to save us all. It's just the different form of it. So often we end up right here, with Christ forgotten over nothing details.

"Also, I’m a father of five."

Congrats! Are they going to Mass, assuming they are of adult age? That's a litmus test here and it's one that exists in the New Testament. I don't want to hear that the TLM is going to save Catholicism and the world if you did not really pass on the faith.

"Didn’t you go to a parish that was all about Latin? Now you’re saying it’s hippy dippy? It’s always bait and switch with you people. Why?"

If you read my post, rather than simply emoting when I suggested that maybe, just maybe TLM is not what saves us, you'd be clearer what it is I actually said. As it is, I've kept these sentence short in hopes you'd slow and down read before responding. If you are interested, maybe go back and read my original post to better gather my intent.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 4:41 PM  

"What you are talking about? SSPX will claim they are not in schism."

I didn't say they were. I was referring to Bergoglio vs the non Novus Ordo.

"You are supposed to love Christ and God with all your strength. If you cannot do that without a particular Mass said in particular way, then I would offer that the love you have is very weak, if it exists at all."

Your argument form can be used to justify literally anything, because it is dishonest. Look:

"You are supposed to love Christ and God with all your strength. If you cannot do that while the priest sodomizes a boy on the altar, then I would offer that the love you have is very weak, if it exists at all."

You don't love either. You love yourself. If you loved either you would do the best you can. You would remove the sodomite and rescue the child. You would care about having the BEST liturgy, and having a correct one would be an absolute necessity.

"And further, no liturgy is magic."

Never said it was. You're attempting to split the matter binarily, as "either it's magic or it doesn't matter". Magic and effective are two different things. If, however, you insist in choosing between your intentionally false categories, to say that the Mass is magic is more accurate than the opposite. Look:

"It does not change hearts and minds."

This is obviously false, and the crown of your error. You are like a child with no understanding, and ought to be paying attention to the adults who do understand so that you can learn. Of course it will have little effect on your heart or mind when you are there to presumptively ignore it.

"It's only been used two or three times, each having to do with point about Mary."

Come now, I'm not Catholic and still I know that this isn't even close to true about Papal Infallibility.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 4:45 PM  

"When I meet with the TLM diehards, I find people who if the conditions are not perfect and the ritual is not exactly right then that's justification for any number of unChristian sentiments."

One bad turn breeds another. You aren't arguing with anyone here, you're arguing with a straw man. I wonder why you'd need to do that.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 4:56 PM  

"In The Year Of The Reparation Of Human Salvation"

Is overt humanism. Anno Domini, Connotatively, Man may be part of The Lord's dominion and thus saved. Anno Domini is far superior.

The first warning about the proposer is that she is a woman presuming to instruct men. I have yet to find a single case where that doesn't eventually lead to witchcraft.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 17, 2021 5:28 PM  

"Only as a matter of perspective, in the same way God is rebelling against Satan. Which is an improper perspective."

I agree with the spirit of your statement. I understand that within normal Church operation, rebellion usually implies lawlessness and/or unjust rejection. Perhaps is is ONLY used in that context.

However it would be more accurate to compare your situation to the encircling of enemies and greater encircling of angels. Bergoglio is the top of the human Catholic hierarchy. You are below him in that hierarchy, and therefore while he is rebelling against God, you are in turn rebelling against him.

Bergoglio is either your hierarchical superior and you are thus in rebellion, or he is not. While it is not yet a binary, your non-binary options --"he is king in this but not in that"-- are decreasing.

"Agreeing with everything the Pope says has nothing to do with schism."

It will when he kicks you out of the Church for refusal and/or deletes your disagreement options from existence.

"The liturgical books promulgated by Saint Paul VI and Saint John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite."

He's stepping up enforcement already. Do you think you're going to slip through the cracks forever? It won't be schism until you personally are ejected, I guess.

"It's hard to imagine what people are thinking, when they note that sometimes an excess of focus on the TLM does not produce most charitable of people."

"Charitable" here meaning "tolerant", rather than being a reference to imperfection-annihilating eternal flame. Charity is anything but tolerant, it is implacable, embracing, and consuming.

Blogger TheGhostlyOne July 17, 2021 7:27 PM  

“I'm not against the concept of student loan forgiveness, but only for white men who get medical or engineering degrees.”

You may as well just tell us how perfectly frugal you were, like the rest of the naysayers.

The extent of the number of “Burmese Lesbian Studies” majors out there, is grossly overstated among the dissident right. Yes, they certainly exist, but they are not the majority of students, especially not now. There are probably twenty times as many business majors than all of those comical majors combined.

Being a stem major, and living on an off-the-grid homestead cannot be the only way to live. If that’s a requirement to be considered viable, we’re screwed. It’s just not feasible for the vast majority of young people.

Regardless of how any of us feel, the only way the majority of those loans will be paid, will be if hyperinflation results in us burning dollars for firewood.

Blogger xevious2030 July 17, 2021 7:32 PM  

“Bergoglio is either your hierarchical superior and you are thus in rebellion, or he is not”

The answer is that Bergoglio is not part of the Body of Christ, and as so, is not a part of my hierarchy.

Without the spiritual component, there is no Church, it is a figment of the imagination, a collection of impersonators. Like a man in a dress.

Blogger LR July 18, 2021 12:12 AM  

@142

https://www.cbeinternational.org/resource/article/mutuality-blog-magazine/what-say-when-someone-says-women-are-not-permitted-teach

Blogger Enjcj July 18, 2021 3:01 AM  

Two words, Ann. Barnhardt.

Blogger Enjcj July 18, 2021 4:50 AM  

Unofficial official pole. Is Barnhardt correct? Yes she so very is.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FamedCelebrity/status/1416188388265316353

Blogger Valley Forge Patriot July 18, 2021 9:50 AM  

Michael Matt goes ballistic over Bergoglio cancelling the Latin Mass.
https://youtu.be/cU_3cQcHjQI

Blogger LR July 18, 2021 10:21 AM  

Barnhardt, Taibbi, lots of intelligence plants in the alternative world...
They will of course be correct on some things, especially in aiming the right incendiary language at the right sector of the crowd.
They entire spectrum oF "DISSENT" is riddled with such fakers, gate keepers, ticket takers and all weather wan**rs.

Blogger Ominous Cowherd July 18, 2021 12:43 PM  

Azure Amaranthine wrote:Bergoglio is the top of the human Catholic hierarchy. You are below him in that hierarchy, and therefore while he is rebelling against God, you are in turn rebelling against him.
Rebelling against humans who are rebelling against God is bad? Or are you pointing out that we have to choose between God's church and man's church?

Blogger JonM July 18, 2021 2:07 PM  

“Bergoglio is either your hierarchical superior and you are thus in rebellion, or he is not...”

You aren't in rebellion if your superior gave an unlawful order. And refusing to obey an unlawful order does not (necessarily) place you outside of the hierarchy.

The unresolved question as of today: Does 'Quo Primus' supercede 'Traditionis Custodes'?

Blogger LA July 18, 2021 3:00 PM  

His edict is not worth the paper it's written on. It is preposterous and will not (his predecessors already said the Latin mass can never be abrogated) be abided by. What a joke. Sorry, Francis. You cannot impose your globalist agenda through destroying the liturgical practices of millions of Catholics. WE RESIST YOU TO YOUR FACE. Ave Maria!

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2021 3:43 PM  

"Rebelling against humans who are rebelling against God is bad?"

It's good, assuming that both rebellions are on the same topic. Someone above said that they weren't in rebellion, this was me pointing out that unless they reject this hierarchy, they are in rebellion by definition.

Blogger LoneWolf July 18, 2021 5:21 PM  

@137 Nick: "Benedict the 16th should never have resigned. He is the true Pope."

If one does some research into the crafting of the 16 documents of Vatican II one will find Cardinal Ratzingers fingerprints heavily covering ALL of them. Then one simply connects the dots---if one has the courage to do such a thing, that is.

Blogger Azure Amaranthine July 18, 2021 8:29 PM  

"You aren't in rebellion if your superior gave an unlawful order. And refusing to obey an unlawful order does not (necessarily) place you outside of the hierarchy."

Superiors that give unlawful orders end up fired or moved to positions where they can't do anything, if their superiors are competent. The Pope's superiors are the men who created his position and emplaced him, rather than God.

The system was set up so that he can't be removed, and grants him the ability to issue certain orders. Consequently, any orders he issues within his prerogative are lawful within that system. Consequently, yes, you are in rebellion if you do not obey those orders.

Refusing is already placing people outside the Catholic hierarchy, the hierarchy is kicking them out. As I said above, apparently it's not a schism until you personally are kicked out, hmmn?

Blogger SciVo July 18, 2021 11:38 PM  

@A stranger in a strange land:
You are supposed to love Christ and God with all your strength. If you cannot do that without a particular Mass said in particular way, then I would offer that the love you have is very weak, if it exists at all.

That is silly and even borderline heretical. We beg God not to lead us into temptation; and likewise, we should put ourselves in situations that will tend to encourage us to do things right. Managing ourselves on purpose.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 19, 2021 2:07 AM  

My opinion, anyway:

https://forge-and-anvil.com/2021/07/19/the-end-of-weaponized-ambiguity/

Blogger Harambe July 19, 2021 5:41 AM  

Protestantism must be looking better and better right about now

Blogger Eric I. Gatera. July 19, 2021 11:07 AM  

The Pope defends himself: https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2021/07/16/0469/01015.html#ingL

Blogger Poco July 19, 2021 2:16 PM  

Mass should be in Aramaic or Greek.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch July 19, 2021 2:51 PM  

@160

Defense, shmafense. Arius died from crapping out his bowels. I find it amusing that Bergoglio recently had colon surgery before he did this act. Will the same happen to him?

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